https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-68476139 
Pakistan: At least 35 die due to surprise snowfall
(seems to be hail as much as snow)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68460616 
US storm: Massive blizzard hits California and Nevada "More than 7ft of snow fell in parts of the Tahoe Basin"

Global warming being selective? One day these events may visit Britain

 

How rare are these storms or how often might one reasonably expect similar storms to occur - one in ? years??

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How rare are these storms or how often might one reasonably expect similar storms to occur - one in ? years??

See http://www.laalmanac.com/weather/we17.php 
 

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See http://www.laalmanac.com/weather/we17.php 
 

Thanks. Interesting. Several decades ago it was the outlook of the most climatologists and 'experts' that such weather would be a thing of the past  by now - not so it seems.

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Thanks. Interesting. Several decades ago it was the outlook of the most climatologists and 'experts' that such weather would be a thing of the past  by now - not so it seems.

I don’t recall reading any predictions for California?  After another virtually snowless winter for lowland England I would have thought the predictions were pretty good, as have been the prediction that our winters would become warmer and wetter.  Then there is the lack of snow and retreating glaciers across Alpine regions, also in line with climate change predictions.

But let’s focus on a freak snowstorm in a part of California…..

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I don’t recall reading any predictions for California?  After another virtually snowless winter for lowland England I would have thought the predictions were pretty good, as have been the prediction that our winters would become warmer and wetter.  Then there is the lack of snow and retreating glaciers across Alpine regions, also in line with climate change predictions.

But let’s focus on a freak snowstorm in a part of California…..

Exactly so

Someone from our Met Office expressed this very neatly the other day when he said the global average temperature has risen by about 1C since the 1960's which is a huge change but the difference in maximum temperatures from day to day even in a temperate climate like the UK can vary by as much as 15C in an average winter. This is the difference between weather and climate

 

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I don’t recall reading any predictions for California?  After another virtually snowless winter for lowland England I would have thought the predictions were pretty good, as have been the prediction that our winters would become warmer and wetter.  Then there is the lack of snow and retreating glaciers across Alpine regions, also in line with climate change predictions.

But let’s focus on a freak snowstorm in a part of California…..

As a keen skier I have been watching the situation across the Alps with dismay. So often I have tuned in to the ski racing and seen bare green mountains with just a thin strip of artificial snow on the piste, struggling to survive. I would only choose a resort with glacier skiing, these days.

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I don’t recall reading any predictions for California?  After another virtually snowless winter for lowland England I would have thought the predictions were pretty good, as have been the prediction that our winters would become warmer and wetter.  Then there is the lack of snow and retreating glaciers across Alpine regions, also in line with climate change predictions.

But let’s focus on a freak snowstorm in a part of California…..

It's more interesting than you imply, as I take your reply to mean that you regard it as a one-off event. 

I recommend reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droughts_in_California  which links an irregular cycle of dry years and wet years, each in turn lasting up to a decade, to the effects of global warming. Unfortunately some studies suggest that warming makes dry years more likely and other studies favour wetter years, just to muddy the waters as it were.

In the 2010s I remember reading articles predicting doom for Californian agriculture as not enough snowmelt was occurring to allow for the necessary irrigation. . So I regard this snowfall, yes, as an extreme example of what can happen when California is in a wet part of the cycle, but falling well within an area of interest for those who follow unusual weather, and not appropriate for casual dismissal.

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Someone from our Met Office expressed this very neatly the other day when he said the global average temperature has risen by about 1C since the 1960's which is a huge change but the difference in maximum temperatures from day to day even in a temperate climate like the UK can vary by as much as 15C in an average winter. This is the difference between weather and climate
 

There was an article on the BBC News website last week (going on about the warmth in February), and there was a quote saying that Edinburgh and Cumbria now see as many air frosts in a typical winter as Kent and Sussex used to get "50 years ago".

Still, best not to mourn for what you've lost, but be glad to have experienced it in the first place - that's my motto!

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It's more interesting than you imply, as I take your reply to mean that you regard it as a one-off event. 

I recommend reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droughts_in_California  which links an irregular cycle of dry years and wet years, each in turn lasting up to a decade, to the effects of global warming. Unfortunately some studies suggest that warming makes dry years more likely and other studies favour wetter years, just to muddy the waters as it were.

In the 2010s I remember reading articles predicting doom for Californian agriculture as not enough snowmelt was occurring to allow for the necessary irrigation. . So I regard this snowfall, yes, as an extreme example of what can happen when California is in a wet part of the cycle, but falling well within an area of interest for those who follow unusual weather, and not appropriate for casual dismissal.

No, David, I wasn’t suggesting it was a one off event; my comment was in the context of the title of this thread, ie unusual weather events.  You’re absolutely right that climate change means increasingly unpredictable weather, but around a trajectory of increasing temperatures.  

For many years in the old climate forum I made the point that we were tampering with a complex system where there would be tipping points and unpredictable consequences. 

My post was in no way ‘a casual dismissal’; it was about context.

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While California gets a soaking, Panama, not far away in global terms, is suffering prolonged drought. Various expensive-looking countermeasures are being attempted.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68467529 

A lack of rain and the El Nino weather phenomenon have contributed to the second driest year in the canal's 110-year history. Last October was the driest month since records began. 

The number of vessels has been slashed from an average of 36 to 24. Each ship is also carrying less cargo now because of weight restrictions. The slowdown spells trouble for global trade.

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While California gets a soaking, Panama, not far away in global terms, is suffering prolonged drought. Various expensive-looking countermeasures are being attempted.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68467529 

A lack of rain and the El Nino weather phenomenon have contributed to the second driest year in the canal's 110-year history. Last October was the driest month since records began. 

The number of vessels has been slashed from an average of 36 to 24. Each ship is also carrying less cargo now because of weight restrictions. The slowdown spells trouble for global trade.

Panama is about 3,000 miles south of California, further than the distance between California and New York.  California’s climate is Mediterranean-like; Panama’s is tropical.

The drought has been having an increasing impact for about a year now.  I wonder why they haven’t considered pumping up sea water if it’s getting so serious?  Is it just too costly and difficult?

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Panama is about 3,000 miles south of California, further than the distance between California and New York.  California’s climate is Mediterranean-like; Panama’s is tropical.

The drought has been having an increasing impact for about a year now.  I wonder why they haven’t considered pumping up sea water if it’s getting so serious?  Is it just too costly and difficult?

The lakes that feed the canal also supply drinking water. So filling them with sea water, even if it was possible, would not be a great idea. (Presumably it would also be fairly catastrophic environmentally too!)

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The lakes that feed the canal also supply drinking water. So filling them with sea water, even if it was possible, would not be a great idea. (Presumably it would also be fairly catastrophic environmentally too!)

😮🤣🤣🤣

I know. What I was suggesting was pumping sea water up, not polluting the lakes.

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There was an article on the BBC News website last week (going on about the warmth in February), and there was a quote saying that Edinburgh and Cumbria now see as many air frosts in a typical winter as Kent and Sussex used to get "50 years ago".

Still, best not to mourn for what you've lost, but be glad to have experienced it in the first place - that's my motto!

Yea - that’s reasonable. i do mourn the loss though, and think back with fondness to my childhood days in Sussex, walking on frozen ponds and frosts lasting days, snow days when the bus wouldn’t arrive and we all got a day playing in the snow. Such a wooded county, and very beautiful in the snow.

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😮🤣🤣🤣

I know. What I was suggesting was pumping sea water up, not polluting the lakes.

As I understand it the canal and the lakes are intimately connected, in fact long stretches of the canal are basically just a marked route through the lakes. I don’t see how you could use sea water really. 

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This is a cool video. A year of weather as seen from space!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4rRvUXSgnA 

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Last week, sky watchers in Texas witnessed a bright display of noctilucent clouds (NLCs). This should be impossible. They were man-made.
See my post in the "Space News" thread in "Science & Nature".

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Phenomenal intercept by Reed Trimmer in Kansas last night. 'Nader" formed directly over the his crews head. Cloudscapes in the 2nd half the the vid are just beyond incredible. 

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   For more about these storms see -
   https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-68577700

  

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That Reed Timmer guy is still going! I remember watching a doc with him in it back in the early 00s. Who was the famous guy that was killed by a tornado? He was on TV a lot too
 

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