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Roger Parsons
14 May 2020 07:59:41


This is absolutely right. I would not condone my parents or my mother-in-law being locked away for months on end. That would be utterly appalling and anybody advocating such a thing would be suffering an empathy problem. We have to come up with better solutions than simply ‘shield the elderly’.


Originally Posted by: Justin W 


Agree with both of you. Most of the oldies here are keeping their distance and following the rules - but many of us go out for exercise walks and shopping too, often in pairs from a single household. What do you expect us to do when we see friends and neighbours - walk on by in silence?  Nobody does - we stop for chat at a distanceAny government that thinks this is not taking place is deluded. We don't invite them in for a cuppa or get close.


When the clapping stops tonight we will hear multiple conversations across the lanes and gardens.


In contrast I know of friends desperate about relatives who are seriously ill in care homes who they can't visit, or other with special needs children, climbing the walls because they would like to be back at school. In both cases PPE is an issue for staff and visitors.


Roger


RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
Everything taken together, here in Lincolnshire are more good things than man could have had the conscience to ask.
William Cobbett, in his Rural Rides - c.1830
speckledjim
14 May 2020 07:59:59


 


Some delivery dates are quite distant on Amazon. I’ve been looking at face masks and some were also July.


You could always buy elsewhere and cancel the Amazon order. I don’t know if John Lewis ships to your area but they have cheaper ones.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


Check out eBay, much earlier delivery dates for masks and plenty of choice.


Thorner, West Yorkshire


Journalism is organised gossip
bledur
14 May 2020 08:02:50


 


I disagree quite strongly there. Every part of Four's post is highly questionable.


Where the hell does anyone get the idea that covid-19 targets western centres of power when the stats show that it preferentially kills people in the BAME community?


I'd love to know where he gets such statements from. I hope they are copied and pasted because if he makes them up himself, I fear he may be hitching up a bit more than he can tow.


Originally Posted by: Ulric 


 But when this started people were saying it will be carnage in poor African countries. Is it? 

Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
14 May 2020 08:07:56


 


As a well-over-60-year-old, I have no objection to the principle of being kept safe, but if this involves being confined to my own house for however many years I have left, then the miserable existence implied by the cure is worse than the disease. I would have no hesitation in breaking a time-unlimited lockdown even if it meant a fine every time I went out. As it is, I put my faith in social distancing and I'm fairly happy to adjust my lifestyle to incorporate that e.g. avoid public transport and go shopping onlyat quiet times. I'm sure that others of my age would feel the same.


It's reminiscent of the treatment of menatl health where "lock 'em up and throw away the key" was recognised in the second half of the 19th century as inhumane and replaced with medical treatment. Roll on vaccination.


Originally Posted by: DEW 

  Absolutely agree!  


I’m 65 and don’t consider myself elderly and I’m fit and healthy with no known underlying problems, overweight by a couple of Kg since lockdown - must walk further!  I work and have no intention of packing up so I’ll contribute to the economy and pay taxes towards the NHS for as long as I can.  Why would anyone want to lock me up?  That was rhetorical, so no need for rude answers!  


Seriously, if under 65’s are at such lower risk, then I’m no threat to them and I’d gladly take my own chances with freedom, otherwise my life is as good as over!  Don’t bother putting me on a ventilator if I get it, then I won’t be draining NHS resources, just as I’ve never drained them before, other than with childbirth.  If I get it, just let me go, don’t make me recover so I can later die a slow death with Alzheimer’s or Dementia.  What’s the point of existing in your front room until your 90?


Time to let the oldies out methinks!  


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Brian Gaze
14 May 2020 08:11:25


  Absolutely agree!  


I’m 65 and don’t consider myself elderly and I’m fit and healthy with no known underlying problems, overweight by a couple of Kg since lockdown - must walk further!  I work and have no intention of packing up so I’ll contribute to the economy and pay taxes towards the NHS for as long as I can.  Why would anyone want to lock me up?  That was rhetorical, so no need for rude answers!  


Seriously, if under 65’s are at such lower risk, then I’m no threat to them and I’d gladly take my own chances with freedom, otherwise my life is as good as over!  Don’t bother putting me on a ventilator if I get it, then I won’t be draining NHS resources, just as I’ve never drained them before, other than with childbirth.  If I get it, just let me go, don’t make me recover so I can later die a slow death with Alzheimer’s or Dementia.  What’s the point of existing in your front room until your 90?


Time to let the oldies out methinks!  


Originally Posted by: Caz 


I think it goes back to what we have discussed before. The system is geared up to measure success by number of years lived because it is a "hard" number. Quality of life which should take precedence is a lot more subjective.


Brian Gaze
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Chunky Pea
14 May 2020 08:11:27


 


Some delivery dates are quite distant on Amazon. I’ve been looking at face masks and some were also July.


You could always buy elsewhere and cancel the Amazon order. I don’t know if John Lewis ships to your area but they have cheaper ones.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


Indeed, this would have been the smart thing to do. The buy from Amazon was spurred on by an impulse driven by desperation. Got up yesterday morning and my hair frightened me. Looked like I was battling with live electric cables all night whilst I slept. I just thought there and then that enough is enough. 


Current Conditions
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Ulric
14 May 2020 08:13:16


 But when this started people were saying it will be carnage in poor African countries. Is it? 


Originally Posted by: bledur 


In countries with almost non-existent healthcare and very young populations, I would expect the overall effect of the pandemic to be very small because the vulnerable groups don't exist to the same extent that they do in wealthy countries.


”The interlocking power of stupidity below, and love of power above, paralyses the efforts of rational men.” - Bertrand Russell
Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
14 May 2020 08:16:09


I disagree quite strongly there. Every part of Four's post is highly questionable.


Where the hell does anyone get the idea that covid-19 targets western centres of power when the stats show that it preferentially kills people in the BAME community?


I'd love to know where he gets such statements from. I hope they are copied and pasted because if he makes them up himself, I fear he may be hitching up a bit more than he can tow.


Originally Posted by: Ulric 

Did you miss read my post? 


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Ulric
14 May 2020 08:20:14


Did you miss read my post? 


Originally Posted by: Caz 


I don't think so but, if I did, I apologise.


”The interlocking power of stupidity below, and love of power above, paralyses the efforts of rational men.” - Bertrand Russell
Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
14 May 2020 08:25:12


 


Check out eBay, much earlier delivery dates for masks and plenty of choice.


Originally Posted by: speckledjim 

Or make your own masks.  The guidelines only say ‘face covering’, which could be a scarf!


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Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
14 May 2020 08:33:42


 


I think it goes back to what we have discussed before. The system is geared up to measure success by number of years lived because it is a "hard" number. Quality of life which should take precedence is a lot more subjective.


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

  Then they should try asking the over sixty fives what they think and they’ll perhaps understand the meaning of ‘living’!  This is why care homes are full of people sitting in Shackleton chairs staring into space!  None of us want that and when it’s too late, our loved ones understandably won’t let go!  If a virus gets me and takes its toll, I and they, will be spared that!  


Of course I don’t want to die yet. I have a lot of living still to do.  The emphasis being on ‘living’.


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Caz
  • Caz
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14 May 2020 08:39:05


 


I don't think so but, if I did, I apologise.


Originally Posted by: Ulric 

No need for apologies!  You actually answered by saying Four’s post was questionable.  I was pointing out that nothing should go unquestioned, no matter how ridiculous it seems on the surface.  We should explore every angle if we’re to find answers. 


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llamedos
  • llamedos
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
14 May 2020 08:46:01


  Then they should try asking the over sixty fives what they think and they’ll perhaps understand the meaning of ‘living’!  This is why care homes are full of people sitting in Shackleton chairs staring into space!  None of us want that and when it’s too late, our loved ones understandably won’t let go!  If a virus gets me and takes its toll, I and they, will be spared that!  


Of course I don’t want to die yet. I have a lot of living still to do.  The emphasis being on ‘living’.


Originally Posted by: Caz 

As Freddie said.....


 



"Life with the Lions"

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David M Porter
14 May 2020 08:51:51


Or make your own masks.  The guidelines only say ‘face covering’, which could be a scarf!


Originally Posted by: Caz 


I saw someone who lives a few minutes' away from me wearing a scarf just the other week while out walking their dog.


Speaking as someone who is a "shielded" person at the moment owing to an underlying health issue, I am out very little anyway and when I take a walk it is only a couple of times a week. However, if/when I di go out, I think I may adopt the scarf idea.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
The Beast from the East
14 May 2020 08:55:48

Excellent news about antibody testing being approved. The sooner the tests begin the better. Two key things:

1) How many people have been infected in the UK

2) How long does immunity last.

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


And can immune people still act as hosts and carry the virus?


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
14 May 2020 08:57:21


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Saint Snow
14 May 2020 09:00:12


  The image that post conjures up!  I was actually a big fan of the Monkees!


Hubby’s hair clippers went missing and we tried to order new ones with the same results!  I’ve threatened to get the kitchen scissors out but he won’t let me near him with them!  My brother managed to buy some clippers early on in lockdown and the trim his wife gave him ended up in a full head shave.  It’s growing again now!  


Originally Posted by: Caz 


 


Two of my close friends who live close to one another met up in the back garden of one of them last Saturday afternoon for a chat. They posted a pic on our WhatsApp group of them social distancing, each with a beer.


A couple hours later, another pic. Less distancing, a fair few empty cans on the table.


And then ;ater, when both were pretty whammed, they thought it would be an idea to cut each other's hair with clippers. The pictures they posted at gone 9pm were *interesting*. . Both posted pics the next day with No1 buzzcuts that they'd had to tidy up with.


 



Martin
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The Beast from the East
14 May 2020 09:00:23


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
14 May 2020 09:10:53

Cummings and the Tufton St machine have been very busy trying to silence anyone who criticises the Govt


 


 




"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Phil G
14 May 2020 09:16:23

On the subject of vaccines, treatments and testing, seems those responsible for all this 'may' be trying to seek information by hacking other countries.
US warning over Covid-19 'cyber-theft' by China
From the BBC news ticker:
US security agencies have said hackers backed by the Chinese government are trying to steal American research dealing with the response to the Covid-19 crisis.
The statement comes amid increased tensions between the two countries over the source of the outbreak.
The statement said the FBI was investigating digital break-ins by cyber-actors linked to China who were trying to steal data on vaccines, treatments and testing.
It warned scientists and public health officials to be on the lookout, but didn’t identify the institutions that had been targeted. The US authorities have long accused the Chinese government of cyber-espionage, which Beijing denies.
But this warning coincides with a much broader surge in cyber-theft and attacks by nations seeking advantage in the pandemic. Last week the US and Britain issued a joint statement about cyber threats to medical research, but didn’t name a specific country.





What's all this working together to find a common goal? Does beg a few questions if true. Why China are doing this? I suspect there is already so much of this going on in all fields, and it's quite 'normal' perhaps?

Northern Sky
14 May 2020 09:19:24


Cummings and the Tufton St machine have been very busy trying to silence anyone who criticises the Govt


 


 




Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


I don't really know anyone who gives a s*** about twitter. It's like a weird little club which thinks it represents the real world but in fact is a world all of it's own.

Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
14 May 2020 09:19:52


Two of my close friends who live close to one another met up in the back garden of one of them last Saturday afternoon for a chat. They posted a pic on our WhatsApp group of them social distancing, each with a beer.


A couple hours later, another pic. Less distancing, a fair few empty cans on the table.


And then ;ater, when both were pretty whammed, they thought it would be an idea to cut each other's hair with clippers. The pictures they posted at gone 9pm were *interesting*. . Both posted pics the next day with No1 buzzcuts that they'd had to tidy up with.


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 

  That’s how my brother ended up getting scalped by his wife and he recorded the event.  Rather than having attachments for different grades, his new clippers had digital controls and were cutting it to a nice length.  Then she cleaned the clippers and inadvertently changed the setting.  So the next cut sealed his fate!  


Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.
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RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
14 May 2020 09:21:02

This is an interesting story..


Why hasn't the UK listed loss of smell as a symptom of Covid-19?


At first Dan, 23, dismissed his stuffy nose as hay fever, but when he couldn't taste his beans on toast, he began to worry he had come down with Covid-19.


But when he called the NHS helpline, 111, he was told there was no problem as he didn't have a cough or a high temperature.


"They were obviously reading off a script and they said, 'You're good to go back to work,' which I felt a bit funny about," Dan says. "To have suddenly lost my sense of smell and taste when I work with some patients who have coronavirus felt like too much of a coincidence."


Ignoring this advice, he began self-isolating, as did the rest of his family, including his mum, a podiatrist whose clients include vulnerable elderly people, and his sister, an intensive care nurse at a children's hospital.


Meanwhile Dan's manager arranged a coronavirus test for him - and a few days later it came back positive.


"Based on government advice alone, I would have been back at work, going from patient to patient and potentially giving them coronavirus," says Dan.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-52638382


Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.
NickR
14 May 2020 09:25:16


 


You're not looking at the whole data though. What it shows is that if you're elderly and get it, you're at serious risk. If you're younger then the risk is much less, unless you have an underlying condition or are unlucky enough to have whatever it is that causes a cytokine storm.


And if you're under 30, or 40 (the line is a bit vague) then you won't show up on the test at all, as you won't have used antibodies to clear the virus in the first place.


The results are clear: shield the old, maintain distancing etc and the youngsters will slowly but surely continue to build immunity.


(EDIT: And your post shows well the folly of using averages in a massively skewed distribution. Just as a few people earning a million+ a year will skew the average much higher in terms of average earnings, so too the CFR is skewed by the massive bias towards elderly people. You should instead look at CFR by age).


 


Originally Posted by: Retron 


I'm completely bemused as to why mortality seems to be the only thing you are factoring in. This disease has some horrendous effects on the body and mind and getting it can lead - in young people - to serious and potentially long-term health issues. The 'if you don't die you're fine' implication here is mind-boggling.


Nick
Durham
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The Beast from the East
14 May 2020 09:30:20


 


I don't really know anyone who gives a s*** about twitter. It's like a weird little club which thinks it represents the real world but in fact is a world all of it's own.


Originally Posted by: Northern Sky 


What may start on twitter or facebook spreads everywhere like a virus - WhatsApp, other social networks and forums etc. 


Many people don't get their news from reputable sources anymore


So it does matter and its why Cummings and Trump know fake news on social media is so effective and can win you elections


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President

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