heatandsnow
09 June 2011 16:53:14

Originally Posted by: John S2 


Originally Posted by: LeedsLad123 


The summers of 2009 and 2010, June was always the hottest, driest month. The following July's and August's where always overcast and cooler. Maybe there is a pattern afterall?



Yes. This is quite a common pattern too. Good June followed by 2 months of zonal dross. 1992, 1988, 1970 also good examples of this.



I think it'll be different this year. Perhaps we'll see a Summer similar to 2009? I wouldn't mind that (though others may not, seeing as I live in the South East)

Jim_AFCB
11 June 2011 18:05:50

I don't know about that - I'd say it's looking like a 2008 or a 1985. Not as bad as 2007 yet, and no sign of stagnant low pressure dumping such copius rainfall.


 


9 days of temps over 21c/70f in April, but only three in the 42 days since. From the current model output it will be 3 in 61 by the end of the month, I expect.


Jim, Bournemouth, Dorset. Home of the mighty Cherries
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LeedsLad123
11 June 2011 18:56:33

A repeat of 2008 would be just a worse as 2007 IMO. Places in the south-east experienced some dry and hot weather during recent summers but here there was none really. A repeat of 2005 would be OK, an average summer with some hot days.


Whitkirk, Leeds - 85m ASL.
11 June 2011 19:15:05
I'd settle for a repeat of 1991 where a horrid June was followed by a reasonable July and August (and September as well)
Stormchaser
11 June 2011 21:19:56

Having watched Netweather's original forecast fall at the first hurdle, much to my dissapointment, I now look back to my own 'fun' predictions from early April, which are actually proving to be remarkably close to the mark. Here is what I said on April 7th:


"I reckon we might well see the absolute reverse [oflast year] this late spring/summer.


I envision headlines declaring 'yet another washout summer' during June, only for July and August to be the best we've seen since 2006 and 2003 respectively! I wouldn't count on them being quite that good, of course "


Followed by:


 


"As part of my fun forecast, I envisage some very decent plumes of hot air this summer. Late May through June, these may tend to miss us to the east, with troughs bothering the UK quite often and high pressure only transitionally influental from the SW. Some thundery action would be sure to arise at times


 


Its during July and August that we may score some direct hits under high pressure tending to hang out further east again such as we have now, and I'm actually thinking that the all time record high temperature could be challenged at least once."


 


Recent conditions have seen less intense plumes than I envisaged to be passing east of the UK, but the pattern has been similar to what I suggested, if producing less thundery activity than I hoped for.


Looking ahead now. If the new Netweather forecast was near the mark, then in some ways my idea of a reverse of last  year's summer would materialise. Its not possible right now to speculate on the liklihood of this, although CFS has been consistently showing an absence of the Greenland high during July, with high pressure to our east, which should at least allow for a much warmer month than June is turning out to be, even if at the moment it looks like the Atlantic troughing will often be too close for sustained heat to occur. Augustremains a total mystery going by CFS, with no anomalies of any kind (beyond one miniscule negative dollop) across the Atlantic, Europe and Asia.


 


This summer still has a decent chance of redeeming itself with the signals for warmer conditions looking far better than they did for June as we approached it. Drier conditions is another matter




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John S2
11 June 2011 23:22:41

Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


This summer still has a decent chance of redeeming itself with the signals for warmer conditions looking far better than they did for June as we approached it. Drier conditions is another matter





Current model output suggests June will be an unsettled month. I can't see an improvement for July & August of 1991 magnitude, although there might be a few brief anticyclonic interludes. Reasons against dramatic improvement are:


1) Low activity solar cycle - believed to favour southerly tracking jet in our region


2) Negative PDO phase and the probability that the current appearance of warm anomalies in the eastern equatorial pacific is a 'false' Nino as per 2008


3) Current Atlantic SSTs will reinforce zonality [enhanced gradient in Western Atlantic] and upper troughs over the UK 

David M Porter
12 June 2011 08:35:54

Originally Posted by: John S2 


Originally Posted by: Twister 


Seems to be a few "Summer is over" posts creeping into the model thread at the moment. While the model output is very unsettled, c'mon it's only 9 June! For all we know, the end of June could herald a lengthy heatwave...



There are numerous years in which July and/or August have been the complete opposite of June - indeed it is quite common.


In my opinion the most spectacular switch was in 1991 when a cold wet June was followed by a hot July [a record breaker in parts of North West UK] and a dry August. Another occasion was the wet June of 1997 being followed by one of the hottest Augusts on record.



I'd put 1990 in there as well. It had a pretty poor June here, aside from a few decent days around the middle of the month, and the first few days of July saw continued cool and unsettled conditions. It was only from the middle of July when settled weather really took control. I'm fairly sure that at the end of June 1990, few if indeed any people would have imagined that just over a month later, the UK would record it's hottest ever day at that time- 37.1C at Cheltenham on 3rd August.


 


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
moomin75
14 June 2011 16:21:29

Originally Posted by: moomin75 


Hi guys. Well here goes, my bi-annual attempt (guess) at a summer forecast.


Mods, I have also put a copy of this in the Summer Thoughts thread, but I'd appreciate a thread of its own for the time being so people can comment on it. (Nice comments please)!! No need to sticky it, because the forecast will remain in the summer thoughts thread throughout.


 


First a health warning. My winter 2010-11 LRF was pretty poor (with the exception of the first month, which was pretty decent!)......I compile these forecasts purely for fun, and I enjoy doing them.


This is purely how I anticipate the summer to pan out. I could be right, I could be wrong, I could be somewhere in between.


So here goes!


Moomin75’s 2011 summer forecast


Overview: Cooler than average with considerable rainfall throughout all three months.


Much of this rainfall will be in June and July, with August perhaps slightly drier than average overall.


My methodology is predominantly pattern matching, but I also consider the lessening influence of La Nina in the Pacific and the continuing lack of solar activity.


I also believe that a southerly-tracking jet (as we have seen in recent summers) will play a major role in what will be overall a disappointing summer.


 


June 2011: I believe June 2011 will begin on an unsettled and cool note with spells of rain across the country. Atlantic troughs will dominate the first half of the month, with temperatures being suppressed nationwide.


The jet will be tracking far to the south, meaning that the Atlantic will continue to dominate our weather, with a cool and showery regime throughout the middle of the month.


Many of these showers will affect the southern half of the UK, while in the north, it will be cool, but brighter and drier here with showers few and far between.


Towards the end of June, I believe the weather will turn very unsettled for the time of year with temperatures continuing to be suppressed to well below average values.


Some very deep areas of low pressure will slam directly into the British Isles during the second half of the month, with strong to gale force winds causing some disruption due to trees being in full leaf.


Overall, I expect June’s CET to be around 1 degree below average, sunshine at values to be at 90% of average in north, but perhaps only 70-80% in the south as unsettled weather dominates.


I anticipate June to be wetter than normal in the south (perhaps as much as 20% wetter than normal), although not as bad as 2007.


In the north, I believe rainfall totals throughout the month will be around average.


July 2011: July will commence on a very unsettled note as the southerly jet continues to allow low pressure systems to hit the UK directly.


Much of the wettest and coolest weather will be in the Midlands and south of the country, while further north, it will be cool, but slightly drier than average.


Deep areas of low pressure will cause perhaps a very wet period in early July, with the potential for flooding in low-lying areas.


While I do not expect the rainfall to be as appreciable as we saw in 2007, I believe that we will see some exceptional rainfall at times, perhaps as much as 200% of the average in the first two weeks.


Further north, blocking over Scandinavia will mean there is more of an influence of high pressure here, and Scotland in particular could be quite pleasant at times with spells of sunshine.


However, it will never be particularly warm, although temperatures in the north will be around average for July.


Further south, with consistent rainfall, I anticipate temperatures to remain very suppressed.


In the second half of July, I expect the jet to push slightly further north, allowing perhaps a ridge from the Azores to bring some much needed relief from the rain in central and southern areas.


However, I believe this ridge will be transitory in nature, with further spells of rain or showers across the south throughout the second half of the month.


Temperatures will recover in the south to average, or perhaps slightly above average in the drier spells, but this will not prevent the monthly CET coming in between 1 and 1.5 degrees below average.


Overall, I expect July’s rainfall to be appreciably above average (150% of average) and the CET (in the south) to be approx 1 degree below average.


Sunshine amounts will also be suppressed in the south, although further north, perhaps average amounts of sunshine and rainfall.


August 2011: I anticipate August to be the best month of the summer nationwide, with some welcome relief in the south from a very wet summer.


With the jet continuing to be further north, this should allow occasional ridging from the Azores High, bringing spells of sunshine and warmer weather at times.


However, I do anticipate further heavy showers at times, and overall, I believe the month will come out around average overall.


Further north, the opposite will happen and the weather will be rather mild and unsettled throughout much of August with spells of rain and temperatures around average overall.


 


Summary: All in all, I expect a very disappointing summer for those wanting a hot, dry season.


June and July in the south of the UK will be particularly poor, with signs for a very wet July indeed.


August will give us some relief from a disappointing summer, although further north, the weather will go downhill after a promising June and July.


I believe that the drying trend from August will lead us into a very pleasant start to September, giving us a taste of what might have been.


 


As I always say guys, please don’t shoot the messenger. I compile these forecasts purely for fun, as as Matty H has always said, all LRF’s are a good deal of guess work.


If I’m right, it will be a shame, (hopefully I won’t be), but this is my genuine thoughts of what we will see during summer 2011.


With permission Mods, I would like to verify my forecast on a month-by-month basis throughout the summer.


I'm here to be shot down if it goes bust, or vice versa if it doesn't.


June is going much according to plan (as I said, I base it on pattern matching predominantly).


At the end of August, I would like to break down my LRF into the component months and dissect where I went wrong (or right)....


I am no longer going to discuss it anywhere other than in this thread.


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
sriram
14 June 2011 17:54:08

sounds like a good bet for summer - the last summer with sustained hot sunny weather was 2006 - 6 years next year


Its just natures way of balancing the seasons


We had a run of mild wet winters - then a couple of shock cold and snowy ones from 2009


so eventually its a very good bet in the future of getting a few hot and sunny summers and mild winters


 


Also to bear in mind hot summers can come in pairs 1975-76, 1983-84, 1989-1990 just to name a few examples


 


Sriram
Sedgley, West Midlands ( just south of Wolverhampton )
162m ASL
Stormchaser
15 June 2011 11:45:23

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/people/wwang/cfs_fcst/images3/glbz700Mon.gif


A brief interpretation of this from me now.


July continues to be predicted to see no anomalously high pressure over Greenland, which is good. Aside from that its a bit vague, with a hint that low pressure could often be close to Iceland with some high pressure east of the UK. It could be a very zonal month, with the south tending to fair well but the north in trouble yet again.


August has suddenly gained a defined appearance, with troughing often just west of the UK and a faint indiciation that high pressure could appear to our NE more often than usual. My most postive interpretation is that August could be a plumey month with frequent periods of hot weather followed by thundery breakdowns. The negative angle is a high frequency of showery southwesterlies with only the southeast tending to fair well out of it.


These are just my intepretations and are of a model that is prone to quite marked changes even across one month, so please bear that in mind. Nonetheless I'd say southern residents have reasonable cause for hope when it comes to a reasonable July, if nothing exceptional. Northern residents... what can I say. I'll have my fingers crossed for some decent UK-wide high summer conditions that lasts more than a day or two.


 


A quick look at Autumn; September could be warm with near average rainfall, October chilly and rather dry, November... has no clear signal now.


Finally, December looks frigid but very dry


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Younger Dryas
15 June 2011 11:59:05

Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/people/wwang/cfs_fcst/images3/glbz700Mon.gif



If any demonstration of how useless these charts are was needed, here it is. November has gone from deep cold to no real signal, whilst August has gone from no signal to now pretty unsettled and, perhaps most notably of all, the July Scandinavian High that was there is now kaput. Seriously, these charts have no credibility at all

15 June 2011 12:06:28

Originally Posted by: Younger Dryas 


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/people/wwang/cfs_fcst/images3/glbz700Mon.gif



If any demonstration of how useless these charts are was needed, here it is. November has gone from deep cold to no real signal, whilst August has gone from no signal to now pretty unsettled and, perhaps most notably of all, the July Scandinavian High that was there is now kaput. Seriously, these charts have no credibility at all


From my experience with these charts, whenever a new month is added, the anomalies change dramatically, then gradually go back to what they were predicting, whethe it be more dramatic or less so. December, ohh err.

DTHFCJ
15 June 2011 22:24:49

Originally Posted by: Matty H 


Winter is a distant memory, as far away as it can possibly be


As we head through Spring people's thoughts will turn to summer. So what do we think we might encounter?...



 winter is "not" too distant you mean


looks like my chocolate teapot cracking summer is going tits up

Matty H
  • Matty H
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
15 June 2011 22:28:00

Originally Posted by: DTHFCJ 


Originally Posted by: Matty H 


Winter is a distant memory, as far away as it can possibly be


As we head through Spring people's thoughts will turn to summer. So what do we think we might encounter?...



 winter is "not" too distant you mean


looks like my chocolate teapot cracking summer is going tits up



Whatever happens it aint cold and that's the main thing  At no stage over the last two months have I felt the need to put anything on top of my t-shirt


I'm still waiting for Netweather's abortion to come back to life...


LeedsLad123
15 June 2011 22:30:50

Originally Posted by: Matty H 


Originally Posted by: DTHFCJ 


Originally Posted by: Matty H 


Winter is a distant memory, as far away as it can possibly be


As we head through Spring people's thoughts will turn to summer. So what do we think we might encounter?...



 winter is "not" too distant you mean


looks like my chocolate teapot cracking summer is going tits up



Whatever happens it aint cold and that's the main thing  At no stage over the last two months have I felt the need to put anything on top of my t-shirt


I'm still waiting for Netweather's abortion to come back to life...



I have I'm afraid, after several nights below 5C


Whitkirk, Leeds - 85m ASL.
DTHFCJ
15 June 2011 22:31:30

Originally Posted by: Matty H 


Originally Posted by: DTHFCJ 


Originally Posted by: Matty H 


Winter is a distant memory, as far away as it can possibly be


As we head through Spring people's thoughts will turn to summer. So what do we think we might encounter?...



 winter is "not" too distant you mean


looks like my chocolate teapot cracking summer is going tits up



Whatever happens it aint cold and that's the main thing  At no stage over the last two months have I felt the need to put anything on top of my t-shirt


I'm still waiting for Netweather's abortion to come back to life...



agree Matty but ive got 3 vests on


christ this summers like watching THFC....

sunnyramsgate
16 June 2011 05:34:15

Originally Posted by: DTHFCJ 


Originally Posted by: Matty H 


Originally Posted by: DTHFCJ 


Originally Posted by: Matty H 


Winter is a distant memory, as far away as it can possibly be


As we head through Spring people's thoughts will turn to summer. So what do we think we might encounter?...



 winter is "not" too distant you mean


looks like my chocolate teapot cracking summer is going tits up



Whatever happens it aint cold and that's the main thing  At no stage over the last two months have I felt the need to put anything on top of my t-shirt


I'm still waiting for Netweather's abortion to come back to life...



agree Matty but ive got 3 vests on


christ this summers like watching THFC....


good start poor finish then!!

DTHFCJ
18 June 2011 21:58:04

Originally Posted by: sunnyramsgate 


Originally Posted by: DTHFCJ 


Originally Posted by: Matty H 


Originally Posted by: DTHFCJ 


Originally Posted by: Matty H 


Winter is a distant memory, as far away as it can possibly be


As we head through Spring people's thoughts will turn to summer. So what do we think we might encounter?...



 winter is "not" too distant you mean


looks like my chocolate teapot cracking summer is going tits up



Whatever happens it aint cold and that's the main thing  At no stage over the last two months have I felt the need to put anything on top of my t-shirt


I'm still waiting for Netweather's abortion to come back to life...



agree Matty but ive got 3 vests on


christ this summers like watching THFC....


good start poor finish then!!



Mmm not even a good start

the converted
19 June 2011 01:53:57

No sign of summer for the foreseable future. Temperatures are 1-2 degrees below normal in some areas. Maybe July.

AIMSIR
19 June 2011 02:25:11

Originally Posted by: the converted 


No sign of summer for the foreseable future. Temperatures are 1-2 degrees below normal in some areas. Maybe July.


True True.The evenings are very cool.


Still a good few weeks to go,Hope for the best.


Mo chara.


 

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