The Weather Outlook

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ballamar
14 November 2021 18:29:29
Seems like a bit of a cold shot coming up (currently on output) a few could see first falling snow before months is out
Gooner
14 November 2021 18:48:07

Chart image


Growing support for a colder spell 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Whether Idle
14 November 2021 19:26:47

ECM arrows a significant cold shot from the north at us in deep FI.  The Arctic looks surprisingly cold early on.  Some sort of colder shot is likely in the last 10 days of the month - though I imagine things will get downgraded from herein.


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
ballamar
14 November 2021 19:33:40


ECM arrows a significant cold shot from the north at us in deep FI.  The Arctic looks surprisingly cold early on.  Some sort of colder shot is likely in the last 10 days of the month - though I imagine things will get downgraded from herein.


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


at the moment it is going the other way becoming a little colder with each run. Could be a slow creeper that gives our early taste of winter

Whether Idle
14 November 2021 20:32:41


 


at the moment it is going the other way becoming a little colder with each run. Could be a slow creeper that gives our early taste of winter


Originally Posted by: ballamar 


Anything is possible.  It would be interesting to see a very cold plunge swiping us with a direct hit, and sustained by repeated mid Atlantic blocking, purely as an academic exercise, just  to see the effect of +14c sea temperatures  mixing it with -10c upper air.  A temperature gradient of 24 c would result in some awesome convection.


 


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Hippydave
14 November 2021 20:36:20

It'd be interesting to see what ECM did from T240 - usual form horse would be for the HP to topple over the UK cutting the feed off and leading to a couple of cold days before milder air returns but I guess at least possible for HP to rebuild with pressure remaining relatively high towards Greenland. The LP that pushes through the HP at the Southern Tip of Greenland looks to be dying off and no sign of further LP development so might be a more positive outcome in the extremely unlikely event it verified as shown. The LP over the US/Canada also seems reasonably aligned to pump warm air up West of Greenland, aiding HP development/stability hopefully.


GFS ens do show why the old 'more runs are needed' chestnut remains true, with some support for a colder evolution but equally a lot of runs which would bring milder weather and plenty of scatter in FI.


The ECM ens are rather more interesting (IMBY anyway, not looked for elsewhere) with fairly unusual clustering under the 0c 850 line in deep FI:-


ECMWF 14-day ensemble weather forecast for Royal Tunbridge Wells | Weather.us


All in all some encouraging signs for something interesting, albeit usual caveat about FI applies and will need to see the pattern marching towards T0. Being even more pessimistic worth remembering that seas are warmer in late Nov than further in to winter and you need to get deep enough cold to overcome that. Away from the North and high ground 850s look cold but maybe not *that cold*. Of course, if it is cold enough you can get a lot of convective snow showers and even if it's not cold enough for everyone favoured spots could have fun, if we get to that point and tomorrow's runs don't wipe it all away.


Home: Tunbridge Wells
Work: Tonbridge
White Meadows
14 November 2021 21:04:16
Can’t help thinking ECM has a very 2009 look about it, syponotically speaking. The build up that November was very different (constant heavy bouts of rain) but the HP pressure alignment and depth of cold nearby takes me back to that magical time.
UncleAlbert
14 November 2021 22:35:02

Can’t help thinking ECM has a very 2009 look about it, syponotically speaking. The build up that November was very different (constant heavy bouts of rain) but the HP pressure alignment and depth of cold nearby takes me back to that magical time.

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 


Was thinking exactly the same earlier.  It's the way the cold air is slowly forcing south westwards into the high pressure.  I think this type of scenario tends to be the precursor to a more sustained spell of cold as opposed to the one where the tropical high gets swept away at speed.  Of course all of the usual caveats of model watching apply!

fairweather
14 November 2021 22:48:27

Yes it is all FI stuff but good to see some interesting charts. Anything that gets us out of a year of high pressure gloom would be good !


S.Essex, 42m ASL
Sevendust
14 November 2021 22:51:37


Was thinking exactly the same earlier.  It's the way the cold air is slowly forcing south westwards into the high pressure.  I think this type of scenario tends to be the precursor to a more sustained spell of cold as opposed to the one where the tropical high gets swept away at speed.  Of course all of the usual caveats of model watching apply!


Originally Posted by: UncleAlbert 


The thing to be wary of is that there have been several examples of late November cold snaps in the last 40 years or so and whilst it is tempting to mention the 2009 mantra it may mean little for the month following. That said it could well be a front loaded winter.


ECM has a direct hit at T240 which is an impressive chart

The Beast from the East
14 November 2021 22:57:52
Is Steve murr still around? Winter is on the way when he appears, although often ends in failure!
Purley, Surrey, 70m ASL

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BJBlake
14 November 2021 23:30:23

La Niña years are good for sustained Arctic blasts, and sub -10 at 850 Hpa and high SST’s  will deliver the potential for thunder snow cold fronts...It’s more than just possible this time - its potential...


Brecklands, South Norfolk 28m ASL
Heavy Weather 2013
15 November 2021 07:13:49
looking at the ensembles, we may even be on for a -10 850 watch from Darren.

There looks to be at least 2-4 runs atm touching that number.
Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
doctormog
15 November 2021 07:19:16

looking at the ensembles, we may even be on for a -10 850 watch from Darren.

There looks to be at least 2-4 runs atm touching that number.

Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 



For what it’s worth there are 11 here.


Brian Gaze
15 November 2021 08:11:19


La Niña years are good for sustained Arctic blasts, and sub -10 at 850 Hpa and high SST’s  will deliver the potential for thunder snow cold fronts...It’s more than just possible this time - its potential...


Originally Posted by: BJBlake 


Down here they're good for blue skies and close to average afternoon temperatures.   A crisp day as the English say and the continentals smirk.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
15 November 2021 08:39:55

Summary temps much like yesterday with cold air spreading from the NE esp into Scandinavia but also (less so) in =to C Europe. PPt pattern still uncertain, N Atlantic & W Med this week, but in addition to W coasts next week, a band stretching up to E Baltic (new)


GFS op - zonal flow this week, mainly HP to start and finish, some LP influence from N midweek; then HP retrogresses to mid-Atlantic with weak N-lies Mon 22nd and a reload with much stronger N/NE-lies Fri 26th with LP 985mb in Biscay by Sat 27th. It doesn't last - major LP C Atlantic Wed 1st pushing troughs and S-ly wind ahead of it.


GEFS - mild or v. mild to Sun 21st then sharp drop with mean staying 3 or 4C  below norm throughout; op & control colder still esp around Mon 29th. Small amounts of rain in week 2, also some in far NW week 1 (likely snow in the Highlands at any time)


ECM - like GFS though main thrust of N-lies is over Scandinavia, the UK is on the fringe


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Chichester 12m asl
David M Porter
15 November 2021 09:12:57


La Niña years are good for sustained Arctic blasts, and sub -10 at 850 Hpa and high SST’s  will deliver the potential for thunder snow cold fronts...It’s more than just possible this time - its potential...


Originally Posted by: BJBlake 


I'd be interested to know if either of the Dec 2009/Jan 2010 or the late Nov/Dec 2010 freezes occured during a La Nina event?



Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Chunky Pea
15 November 2021 10:57:05


 


I'd be interested to know if either of the Dec 2009/Jan 2010 or the late Nov/Dec 2010 freezes occured during a La Nina event?



Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


Second half of 2010 was La Nina territory if I recall correctly. 


East Galway, Ireland.
Current Conditions
https://t.ly/MEYqg 


"You don't have to know anything to have an opinion"
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ballamar
15 November 2021 11:14:15
Doesn’t quite make it on this op run but definitely some colder than average temps coming up. We do seem to get the tease of colder weather before the high sinks commonly in the models at this time of year. Hopefully it can build in a favourable position give the cold to the east of us.
Gandalf The White
15 November 2021 11:37:11


 


Second half of 2010 was La Nina territory if I recall correctly. 


Originally Posted by: Chunky Pea 


We are also at a similar point in the solar cycle, when northern blocking is more likely.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Gandalf The White
15 November 2021 11:40:03

Doesn’t quite make it on this op run but definitely some colder than average temps coming up. We do seem to get the tease of colder weather before the high sinks commonly in the models at this time of year. Hopefully it can build in a favourable position give the cold to the east of us.

Originally Posted by: ballamar 


It just shows how almost every piece of the jigsaw puzzle has to fall correctly: high pressure in mid-Atlantic, block over Iceland/Greenland, jet stream looping up over the block and diving south into Norway & south into mainland Europe.


 


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Heavy Weather 2013
15 November 2021 12:23:06

I have to say that the 06z suite is one of the most interesting and exciting I have seen for a long time. The cold theme is present in some form or another on most of them:


These two are amazing


P14: www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSP14EU06_264_2.png


P19: www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSP19EU06_300_2.png


Yes these are FI charts, but this average here  suggest a mid Atlantic ridge is becoming a favoured option.


Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
Jiries
15 November 2021 12:42:10


I have to say that the 06z suite is one of the most interesting and exciting I have seen for a long time. The cold theme is present in some form or another on most of them:


These two are amazing


P14: www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSP14EU06_264_2.png


P19: www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSP19EU06_300_2.png


Yes these are FI charts, but this average here  suggest a mid Atlantic ridge is becoming a favoured option.


Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 


Very interesting and at least so far this month had been mild, dry and lot of sunshine compare to summer months. also helping to keep the heating down very low this month.  I prefer mild, dry and sunny to pass the winter long dark times than cold for nothing type weather that use lot of heating.  If cold coming I rather have it subzero temps, snow and hard frost at nights otherwise, 10-12C day and night to pass on the time.  1 month left for shortage day and then drawing out again soon.

Russwirral
15 November 2021 12:56:29


I have to say that the 06z suite is one of the most interesting and exciting I have seen for a long time. The cold theme is present in some form or another on most of them:


These two are amazing


P14: www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSP14EU06_264_2.png


P19: www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSP19EU06_300_2.png


Yes these are FI charts, but this average here  suggest a mid Atlantic ridge is becoming a favoured option.


Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 


 


P19 is very similar to the Operational for 27/28 Nov


White Meadows
15 November 2021 13:29:52
And look at that enormous trough sinking over the whole of Scandinavia.

I’ll be looking forward to some clean dry air from the north to displace the moist muck which makes everything so much more prone to mould.

Might just eek out a few more days this week without the heating til evening. Then next week should feel markedly different, when the winter woollies could make an appearance.

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