Russwirral
11 March 2020 20:54:05
Fi consistently showing a stonking scandi high..... now also followed by a stonking greenland high...


Just in time for April
DPower
11 March 2020 22:34:00

1mb strat is on fire mid range with temps as high as -10 near the pole at 10mb yet surprisingly very little geopotential height forcing at this altitude apart from a displaced vortex towards Canada which I find a little strange because the synoptics that the gfs runs have been throwing out are undoubtedly a response to this warming and forcing. 


Could we see a memorable wintry spell of weather during the last third of the month similar perhaps to late March 2013 or late March 1952 perhaps.

BJBlake
12 March 2020 00:12:42

Originally Posted by: DPower 


1mb strat is on fire mid range with temps as high as -10 near the pole at 10mb yet surprisingly very little geopotential height forcing at this altitude apart from a displaced vortex towards Canada which I find a little strange because the synoptics that the gfs runs have been throwing out are undoubtedly a response to this warming and forcing. 


Could we see a memorable wintry spell of weather during the last third of the month similar perhaps to late March 2013 or late March 1952 perhaps.



 


yes, I remember theire being strong wintry periods in late March in the 70s, with one delivering 3ft drifts on the South Downs. 


Looks like something is really brewing here....what a shame it is not January!!!


I am longing for Spring now, but I think winter might well be about to start....ironically. GFS average in FI is showing a Scandinavia high and very cool temps. That is unusual. Most putabations are showing wintry weather by the 25th to 27th.


 


Brecklands, South Norfolk 28m ASL
fairweather
12 March 2020 00:58:19

I have only one comment. Bloody typical!


S.Essex, 42m ASL
johncs2016
12 March 2020 01:33:43

In the thread for giving our predictions for this year and for this decade, I mentioned that the spring would start off on an Atlantic-driven note since that is how the winter was, and since any pattern change will probably require a gradual transition from that.

However, with the stratospheric temperatures above the NP being so cold and driving such a powerful PV as a result, I could see that this could be enough for any natural warming from the Sun as we go further into the spring to have such a big impact on the stratosphere that the effects on the troposphere become similar to what we would be looking for from a SSW event during the weather with northern blocking resulting from that.

Because of that, I then predicted that the latter part of this spring in particular, could become a lot more easterly dominated as a result with more in the way of northern blocking. In the transition period between those two states, I also predicted that we would see the Azores High increasingly building over the country as the PV weakens, to bring a spell of drier and more settled weather before this high pressure then drifts north to become our northern blocking.

I know that what I have mentioned so far is off topic for this thread up until now, but the reason why I have mentioned this here is due to the fact that northern blocking has started to appear in the model output. Now, I know that this is only in the unreliable time frame and for now, is only really there as an outlier within the GFS model output.

Because of that, I am perfectly aware that we shouldn't really take that very seriously as a result. However, I am wondering whether or not, the appearance of northern blocking in the unreliable time frame of the GFS in particular is perhaps, the very first signs that my above predictions for this spring are starting to be shown to be right.

Now, I did mention that it would probably be in the latter part of the spring when we saw that northern blocking and we are only at the start of the spring just now. Because of that, I wouldn't have expected too much northern blocking to appear in the model output right now so the fact that this is only there as a GFS outlier fits in with my predictions quite nicely.

If I am right in what I am saying though, I would expect northern blocking to feature a lot more within the model output as time goes on. Furthermore, the models are agreeing a lot more that we are very soon, about to leave the more unsettled weather behind which we are still experiencing and go into a period which is more high pressure dominated. Even that fits in nicely with my predictions as well because I did also predict that we would go through a period of high pressure dominated weather as we eventually transition more towards northern blocking.

This means that it is is entirely possible that the model output which is just going for high pressure to be in charge, is possibly seeing that as a means of some sort of transition towards northern blocking but without extending far enough out at this stage for that northern blocking to come into that actual output.

This means that we could be in for a very interesting time indeed in that regard. Of course, we could have done with seeing that northern blocking during the winter so that it could have brought us a lot of cold and snowy weather, and the fact that we had such a horrible winter in that regard makes that all the more frustrating. However, I did also predict that this would happen too late to bring any real cold weather and that there would be a lot of frustrated people on this forum as a result as I am already starting to see, going by some recent comments on this thread.


The north of Edinburgh, usually always missing out on snow events which occur not just within the rest of Scotland or the UK, but also within the rest of Edinburgh.
BJBlake
12 March 2020 06:19:58

Originally Posted by: johncs2016 



This means that we could be in for a very interesting time indeed in that regard. Of course, we could have done with seeing that northern blocking during the winter so that it could have brought us a lot of cold and snowy weather, and the fact that we had such a horrible winter in that regard makes that all the more frustrating. However, I did also predict that this would happen too late to bring any real cold weather and that there would be a lot of frustrated people on this forum as a result as I am already starting to see, going by some recent comments on this thread.



Pretty well bang on then... Well done indeed...the average chart verifies the trend and we could lurch from swamp to drought. It doesn't take long - 14 days or so for some soils to dry right out - even after the rain we have had....and therefore endorsing the Met Office prediction of weather getting stuck in ruts for long periods - famine and feast, depending what you like and the ground needs.


Brecklands, South Norfolk 28m ASL
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
12 March 2020 06:54:44

Originally Posted by: BJBlake 


 


Pretty well bang on then... Well done indeed...the average chart verifies the trend and we could lurch from swamp to drought. It doesn't take long - 14 days or so for some soils to dry right out - even after the rain we have had....and therefore endorsing the Met Office prediction of weather getting stuck in ruts for long periods - famine and feast, depending what you like and the ground needs.



I remember the 'stuck in ruts' theory being seriously advanced in the 1990s and promoted as a contrast to previous weather patterns. It was probably a reaction to the long summer droughts which were a feature of some years prior to that as I never saw any proper analysis.


Back to the here and now


Passing troughs on Fri & Sun, then HP getting established for the rest of the GFS run through to Sat 28th March. The models are not stable when it comes to predicting where the HP will set up - GFS now says centred over the UK (not Baltic as yesterday) peak 1040mb Mon 23rd, and ridges forming in various directions from time to time so winds vary, mostly W-ly in week 1 then E-ly in week 2 but lighter than forecast earlier (no gales in the Channel on today's run)


ECM agrees and reaches 1030mb centred over UK  at the end of its run on Sat 21st. BBC last night showing a more elongated ridge from mid-Atlantic across UK to central Europe.


Ens runs cool at first, good agreement for getting milder after current dip with peaks Sat 14th and Fri 19th (the latter less marked in N) after which divergence sets in - mean near average but control run v. cold on Mon 23rd. Very dry in S but some rain in N at first.


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
sunny coast
12 March 2020 07:43:55

Originally Posted by: BJBlake 


 


 


yes, I remember theire being strong wintry periods in late March in the 70s, with one delivering 3ft drifts on the South Downs. 


Looks like something is really brewing here....what a shame it is not January!!!


I am longing for Spring now, but I think winter might well be about to start....ironically. GFS average in FI is showing a Scandinavia high and very cool temps. That is unusual. Most putabations are showing wintry weather by the 25th to 27th.


 


1975 Easter produced snow here in Sussex. Mid March 79 also very heavy in some areas.  BBC tho was going for a warm up next week so maybe a false spring followed by a sudden plunge into winter! 

Rob K
12 March 2020 08:44:52
I’m not seeing much sign of anything too wintry on the GEFS. Lots of scatter but just as many notably mild runs as chilly ones producing an average just about on the long term mean. Hopefully the high will end up centred more or less over the UK giving us some dry weather. The common here is about as wet as I have ever seen it.
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
tallyho_83
12 March 2020 15:04:18
Has anyone looked at the recent models and temperatures in Stratosphere @ 10hpa of late?? If not worth a look. - I'll say no more!
Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
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Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


Rob K
12 March 2020 17:29:38
Never mind the 10hPa. The precipitation spikes (or lack of them) on the 12Z GEFS ensemble graph are a sight for sore eyes!
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Hippydave
12 March 2020 18:46:16

Originally Posted by: Rob K 

Never mind the 10hPa. The precipitation spikes (or lack of them) on the 12Z GEFS ensemble graph are a sight for sore eyes!


Yup we do finally seem to be firming up on quite a decent spell of dry weather. Long overdue


Home: Tunbridge Wells
Work: Tonbridge
tierradelfuego
12 March 2020 20:01:50
Hurrah! Training for my 1st marathon, and a trail at that, has not been fun on the Berkshire hills recently, loving the GEFS at present. As much as the waterlogged trails is a problem for my feet, the wind is a killer so nice to see a week or hopefully more of settled weather.
Bucklebury
West Berkshire Downs AONB
135m ASL

VP2 with daytime FARS
Rainfall collector separated at ground level
Anemometer separated above roof level
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Russwirral
12 March 2020 20:52:56

Originally Posted by: tierradelfuego 

Hurrah! Training for my 1st marathon, and a trail at that, has not been fun on the Berkshire hills recently, loving the GEFS at present. As much as the waterlogged trails is a problem for my feet, the wind is a killer so nice to see a week or hopefully more of settled weather.


 


I started doing runs up Moel Fammau in north wales last year, even kept them going in the dark - doing them with a head torch, was pretty much the highlight of the week....  


 


Havent done it since about November, as the ground was just like a bog, and almost impossible to get any rythm - even up hill.  a dry continental feed will do nicely with longer brighter days to bring the plants into growth.  It should help firm the ground up enough to start up the running again...


 


Got the Liverpool Half on Sunday, weather looks fairly decent, slack winds and a little damp..


David M Porter
12 March 2020 22:11:28

Originally Posted by: Hippydave 


 


Yup we do finally seem to be firming up on quite a decent spell of dry weather. Long overdue




Hear hear!


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Gandalf The White
12 March 2020 22:39:19

Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


 



Hear hear!



Absolutley. But I'd also welcome an absence of wind: I'm getting fed up with being buffeted every time we go outside and having to pick up the dustbins.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


idj20
12 March 2020 23:13:59

Have you notice how the GFS 18z output has the UK under a slack SE airflow in from Italy between 21st and 27th Mar?


 



Folkestone Harbour. 
Downpour
12 March 2020 23:36:59

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


 


Absolutley. But I'd also welcome an absence of wind: I'm getting fed up with being buffeted every time we go outside and having to pick up the dustbins.



 


the breeze is welcome - it’s the only thing that dries out the sodden ground at this time of year


Chingford
London E4
147ft
Gandalf The White
12 March 2020 23:44:40

Originally Posted by: Downpour 


 


 


the breeze is welcome - it’s the only thing that dries out the sodden ground at this time of year



A breeze is fine; it's the gales I'm concerned about.  Breezes don't knock over half-full recycling and waste bins.


As for drying out, the field behind us is still under water on our side and will take weeks to dry.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Russwirral
12 March 2020 23:58:57

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


 


A breeze is fine; it's the gales I'm concerned about.  Breezes don't knock over half-full recycling and waste bins.


As for drying out, the field behind us is still under water on our side and will take weeks to dry.



 


At this time of year a week of sunny weather to wake up the trees should draw alot of that liquid away


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