wallaw
01 April 2011 09:45:39

Originally Posted by: NickR 


Another deep and meaningful contribution from Duane, I see.



It's ok Nick, you don't need to deal with the likes of him as he doesn't fit your "I'm only talking to you if you have first class honours degree" approach to people.


I'd like to think Duane was succinct and to the point


Ian


Stockton-on-Tees

NickR
01 April 2011 09:50:21

Originally Posted by: wallaw 


Originally Posted by: NickR 


Another deep and meaningful contribution from Duane, I see.



It's ok Nick, you don't need to deal with the likes of him as he doesn't fit your "I'm only talking to you if you have first class honours degree" approach to people.


I'd like to think Duane was succinct and to the point



Apart from there being no need to swear, this is a discussion board and Duane has a tendency to offer such contributions which scarcely aid the discussion.


If you've got a problem with me, Ian, take it to PM, rather than persisting with this line of condescension based on one post I made which you have - I can only assume - willfully misconstrued. Between yourself, MM and his "plonker"/idiot line of thought, and Duane's comment above, this place has fallen apart recently - it seems you right-wingers have nothing else in the tank but to resort to petty insults and snide remarks.


Nick
Durham
[email protected]
wallaw
01 April 2011 10:07:04

Originally Posted by: NickR 


Originally Posted by: wallaw 


Originally Posted by: NickR 


Another deep and meaningful contribution from Duane, I see.



It's ok Nick, you don't need to deal with the likes of him as he doesn't fit your "I'm only talking to you if you have first class honours degree" approach to people.


I'd like to think Duane was succinct and to the point



Apart from there being no need to swear, this is a discussion board and Duane has a tendency to offer such contributions which scarcely aid the discussion.


If you've got a problem with me, Ian, take it to PM, rather than persisting with this line of condescension based on one post I made which you have - I can only assume - willfully misconstrued. Between yourself, MM and his "plonker"/idiot line of thought, and Duane's comment above, this place has fallen apart recently - it seems you right-wingers have nothing else in the tank but to resort to petty insults and snide remarks.



I'd like to think of myself as being just right of centre really.


No need for PM'ing or the likes. I think the issue here is that it appears that the right wing people on here seem to be in the minority (thankfully not representative of the population), maybe that's more a reflection on the types of work (if any) that people who contribute do???


But as a result I felt compelled to stand up for my own belief and get invovled a little more with the UIA having read for years the the back slapping and posturing of the left on here that their beliefs are unequivocally correct. It seems that grey areas don't exist in any issue.


The general theme from a readers perspective is that those from the right discuss each subject matter on merit and can meet in the middle on some issues. Those on the left see only their way and that those on the right are nothing short of the devil incarnate, greedy self centred fools working for the governement machine (as jonny put it). It's this unswerving notion from some on her that Tories are to be hated and can't see what is going on and that those same few have a better understanding than the rest of us that leads to some getting their hackels up.


You insulting me with your idea that those with a poor degree result or those that can not come up to your 'wordsmith' standards have less of a right to post on here and yet anything that Duane, myself or MM say is MORE of an insult and must be taken to PM is a microcosm of your misguided and blinkered approach to black and white politics.


Ian


Stockton-on-Tees

Maunder Minimum
01 April 2011 10:46:41

Originally Posted by: wallaw 


I'd like to think of myself as being just right of centre really.


No need for PM'ing or the likes. I think the issue here is that it appears that the right wing people on here seem to be in the minority (thankfully not representative of the population), maybe that's more a reflection on the types of work (if any) that people who contribute do???


But as a result I felt compelled to stand up for my own belief and get invovled a little more with the UIA having read for years the the back slapping and posturing of the left on here that their beliefs are unequivocally correct. It seems that grey areas don't exist in any issue.


The general theme from a readers perspective is that those from the right discuss each subject matter on merit and can meet in the middle on some issues. Those on the left see only their way and that those on the right are nothing short of the devil incarnate, greedy self centred fools working for the governement machine (as jonny put it). It's this unswerving notion from some on her that Tories are to be hated and can't see what is going on and that those same few have a better understanding than the rest of us that leads to some getting their hackels up.


You insulting me with your idea that those with a poor degree result or those that can not come up to your 'wordsmith' standards have less of a right to post on here and yet anything that Duane, myself or MM say is MORE of an insult and must be taken to PM is a microcosm of your misguided and blinkered approach to black and white politics.



Well put sir!


The moralising and sanctimonious tone of some on the left gets right up my nostril!


Take the issue of cuts - not one of the lefties on here has addressed the issue of whether "No Cuts" is a sensible approach in the current circumstances. All they do is blather on about right wing agendas, ideologically driven, nasty Tories and such like.


We all have our opinions which we care to share on here, but common sense seems to have taken flight.


On any common sense measure, there simply have to be spending cuts. I have put before that there can be a debate about how deep, how quickly and where, but none on the left seems to want to make that argument. "No Cuts" is not a debating point, it is a head in the sand and stuff you all point!


New world order coming.
NickR
01 April 2011 10:52:14

Originally Posted by: wallaw 


Originally Posted by: NickR 


Originally Posted by: wallaw 


Originally Posted by: NickR 


Another deep and meaningful contribution from Duane, I see.



It's ok Nick, you don't need to deal with the likes of him as he doesn't fit your "I'm only talking to you if you have first class honours degree" approach to people.


I'd like to think Duane was succinct and to the point



Apart from there being no need to swear, this is a discussion board and Duane has a tendency to offer such contributions which scarcely aid the discussion.


If you've got a problem with me, Ian, take it to PM, rather than persisting with this line of condescension based on one post I made which you have - I can only assume - willfully misconstrued. Between yourself, MM and his "plonker"/idiot line of thought, and Duane's comment above, this place has fallen apart recently - it seems you right-wingers have nothing else in the tank but to resort to petty insults and snide remarks.



You insulting me with your idea that those with a poor degree result or those that can not come up to your 'wordsmith' standards have less of a right to post on here and yet anything that Duane, myself or MM say is MORE of an insult and must be taken to PM is a microcosm of your misguided and blinkered approach to black and white politics.



Please show me where I said that.


Nick
Durham
[email protected]
NickR
01 April 2011 11:01:44

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Originally Posted by: wallaw 


I'd like to think of myself as being just right of centre really.


No need for PM'ing or the likes. I think the issue here is that it appears that the right wing people on here seem to be in the minority (thankfully not representative of the population), maybe that's more a reflection on the types of work (if any) that people who contribute do???


But as a result I felt compelled to stand up for my own belief and get invovled a little more with the UIA having read for years the the back slapping and posturing of the left on here that their beliefs are unequivocally correct. It seems that grey areas don't exist in any issue.


The general theme from a readers perspective is that those from the right discuss each subject matter on merit and can meet in the middle on some issues. Those on the left see only their way and that those on the right are nothing short of the devil incarnate, greedy self centred fools working for the governement machine (as jonny put it). It's this unswerving notion from some on her that Tories are to be hated and can't see what is going on and that those same few have a better understanding than the rest of us that leads to some getting their hackels up.


You insulting me with your idea that those with a poor degree result or those that can not come up to your 'wordsmith' standards have less of a right to post on here and yet anything that Duane, myself or MM say is MORE of an insult and must be taken to PM is a microcosm of your misguided and blinkered approach to black and white politics.



Well put sir!


1) The moralising and sanctimonious tone of some on the left gets right up my nostril!


2) Take the issue of cuts - not one of the lefties on here has addressed the issue of whether "No Cuts" is a sensible approach in the current circumstances. All they do is blather on about right wing agendas, ideologically driven, nasty Tories and such like.


3) We all have our opinions which we care to share on here, but common sense seems to have taken flight.


4) On any common sense measure, there simply have to be spending cuts. I have put before that there can be a debate about how deep, how quickly and where, but none on the left seems to want to make that argument. "No Cuts" is not a debating point, it is a head in the sand and stuff you all point!



1) Yes, far better just to call the opposition plonkers, idiots, and fools, and be done with it.


2) Actually I've seen several posts by Jonny, Saint, Martyn, etc, which have made quite clear what they see the alternatives as being. The fact it requires a sea change in the dominant political discourse and thinking is maybe what you are missing/finding hard to discuss.


3) As does reasoned, non-circular debate of late.


4) I refer you to point 2. FWIW, I believe certain cuts can be made that would actually be of benefit to the way services are run, including simplification of certain benefit and tax systems. I also think many of the government's cuts are actually going to end up costing more money than they are meant to save, so we could start by cutting those cuts/policies. But the long and the short of it is that there is the need for a major - and global - rethink about how we run our world. Wake-up calls and opportunities to engage in such a rethink don't come up very often - but this one such opportunity. Rather than moaning about "well that's the way it is" as the banks plunder our money and the financiers and brokers get millions for pushing around virtual "goods", there comes a point when there is the need to challenge that system. No one said it was easy, but if you don't seize the opportunity when it presents itself, then you are letting yourself and your children down. Carpe diem, MM.


Nick
Durham
[email protected]
Saint Snow
01 April 2011 11:09:23
Originally Posted by: wallaw 

I think the issue here is that it appears that the right wing people on here seem to be in the minority (thankfully not representative of the population), maybe that's more a reflection on the types of work (if any) that people who contribute do???


But as a result I felt compelled to stand up for my own belief and get invovled a little more with the UIA having read for years the the back slapping and posturing of the left on here that their beliefs are unequivocally correct. It seems that grey areas don't exist in any issue.


The general theme from a readers perspective is that those from the right discuss each subject matter on merit and can meet in the middle on some issues. Those on the left see only their way and that those on the right are nothing short of the devil incarnate, greedy self centred fools working for the governement machine (as jonny put it). It's this unswerving notion from some on her that Tories are to be hated and can't see what is going on and that those same few have a better understanding than the rest of us that leads to some getting their hackels up.



Ian, if you firmly believe the above, then you are just as guilty of the sort of blinkered approach you accuse certain other contributors of.



It's my own opinion that there's a rough balance between the right, left, centrists and those that flit between all three depending on the topic. I think there's intransigence shown from pretty much all contributors on most topics - that is, after all, the nature of politics; you don't change your fundamental socio-economic beliefs just because someone else tells you they don't agree. I certainly have never witnessed anyone from 'the right' ever meeting in the middle on any topic so I'm clueless as to where you get that from.




Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
The Beast from the East
01 April 2011 11:09:28

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


The moralising and sanctimonious tone of some on the left gets right up my nostril!



LOL. You are beyond parody sometimes Maunder.


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Maunder Minimum
01 April 2011 11:11:15

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


The moralising and sanctimonious tone of some on the left gets right up my nostril!



LOL. You are beyond parody sometimes Maunder.


 




I am a brutalist, not a moraliser Beast.


New world order coming.
Maunder Minimum
01 April 2011 11:14:18

Originally Posted by: NickR 


FWIW, I believe certain cuts can be made that would actually be of benefit to the way services are run, including simplification of certain benefit and tax systems. I also think many of the government's cuts are actually going to end up costing more money than they are meant to save, so we could start by cutting those cuts/policies. But the long and the short of it is that there is the need for a major - and global - rethink about how we run our world. Wake-up calls and opportunities to engage in such a rethink don't come up very often - but this one such opportunity. Rather than moaning about "well that's the way it is" as the banks plunder our money and the financiers and brokers get millions for pushing around virtual "goods", there comes a point when there is the need to challenge that system. No one said it was easy, but if you don't seize the opportunity when it presents itself, then you are letting yourself and your children down. Carpe diem, MM.



Carpe Diem indeed Nick, but I think we would seize it for completely different outcomes.


New world order coming.
The Beast from the East
01 April 2011 11:14:54

Originally Posted by: Charmhills 


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Another Labour MP goes to jail:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/labour-mps-expenses/8418066/Jim-Devine-jailed-for-16-months-over-expenses-fraud.html


Imagine the self righteous hysteria in the Guardian and on the BBC if it were Conservative MPs being incarcerated!



Indeed.


It seems ok for Labour and quite acceptable but not for the Tories it would seem.



Interesting how Cameron's Wisteria removal and other expense claims were quietly hushed up by the state controlled media. Not to mention Gideon's chauffeur expenses. The masses are so easily manipulated to believe certain things as Berlusconi is proof of. If you control the media you can do anything and get away with anytihng.


The whole deficit debate is another example as that Johann Hari article showed.


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
01 April 2011 11:21:34

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


In other words, the Lib Dems have gone into this deficit reduction programme with their eyes wide open



before the election they promised to reduce the deficit at a slower pace but with the emphasis on taxing the rch and cutting Trident etc. Now they have turned into fags and rent boys of their Tory masters. Stooges put up to defend these policies on TV and give moral justification. Perhaps they are so blinded by the trappings of power, they don't even realise they have been put up as the proverbial human shields


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Maunder Minimum
01 April 2011 11:25:15

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Originally Posted by: Charmhills 


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Another Labour MP goes to jail:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/labour-mps-expenses/8418066/Jim-Devine-jailed-for-16-months-over-expenses-fraud.html


Imagine the self righteous hysteria in the Guardian and on the BBC if it were Conservative MPs being incarcerated!



Indeed.


It seems ok for Labour and quite acceptable but not for the Tories it would seem.



Interesting how Cameron's Wisteria removal and other expense claims were quietly hushed up by the state controlled media. Not to mention Gideon's chauffeur expenses. The masses are so easily manipulated to believe certain things as Berlusconi is proof of. If you control the media you can do anything and get away with anytihng.


The whole deficit debate is another example as that Johann Hari article showed.



Hari was effectively rebutted here:


http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/6825383/memo-to-johann-hari-this-government-isnt-planning-to-pay-off-our-debt-rapidly.thtml


Hari is just pushing the agenda he believes in, as much as anybody else does.


New world order coming.
Gavin P
  • Gavin P
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
02 April 2011 21:19:46

YouGov/News International


Con 36% Lab 42% Lib-Dem11% Lab Lead 6%


Rural West Northants 120m asl
Short, medium and long range weather forecast videos @ https://www.youtube.com/user/GavsWeatherVids
SEMerc
02 April 2011 22:55:57

Originally Posted by: Gavin P 


YouGov/News International


Con 36% Lab 42% Lib-Dem11% Lab Lead 6%



I'm surprised the Limp Dumb number is holding up so well.

The Beast from the East
02 April 2011 22:59:03

Originally Posted by: SEMerc 


Originally Posted by: Gavin P 


YouGov/News International


Con 36% Lab 42% Lib-Dem11% Lab Lead 6%



I'm surprised the Limp Dumb number is holding up so well.



Polling has been remarkably stable in the past 6 months or so. Tory support as it was at the last election which is ok for them at this stage. Not much sign of direct Tory to Labour switching. About 12% of Lib Dem support has defected to Labour


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Brian Gaze
03 April 2011 07:49:59

Originally Posted by: SEMerc 


Originally Posted by: Gavin P 


YouGov/News International


Con 36% Lab 42% Lib-Dem11% Lab Lead 6%



I'm surprised the Limp Dumb number is holding up so well.



The Lib Dems are running a very good and active local election campaign around here, and it's possible that a few percent of the electorate have made a distinction between Clegg and the Lib Dems.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Gavin P
  • Gavin P
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
03 April 2011 08:33:46

I would say the Lib-Dems have dropped to their core vote and they just can't drop anymore.


Rural West Northants 120m asl
Short, medium and long range weather forecast videos @ https://www.youtube.com/user/GavsWeatherVids
Maunder Minimum
03 April 2011 09:18:09

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Originally Posted by: SEMerc 


Originally Posted by: Gavin P 


YouGov/News International


Con 36% Lab 42% Lib-Dem11% Lab Lead 6%



I'm surprised the Limp Dumb number is holding up so well.



Polling has been remarkably stable in the past 6 months or so. Tory support as it was at the last election which is ok for them at this stage. Not much sign of direct Tory to Labour switching. About 12% of Lib Dem support has defected to Labour



You won't have Conservative supporters switching to Labour - one thing they are all agreed on is that Brown, Balls and Labour were slowly but surely bankrupting the nation, well before the Credit Crunch hit.


I went to a hustings before the election and met the PPC, who is now our MP. She joined the party in around 2002 and left her employment once she became the PPC, to work full time on becoming elected. When asked what motivated her to join and fight for election, her response was simple - as a pensions investment adviser, she was becoming concerned about the fiscal path Labour were taking and determined to help stop Gordon Brown bankrupting the country. She was too late unfortunately...


New world order coming.
Gavin P
  • Gavin P
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
04 April 2011 21:21:02

YouGov/NI


Con 37% Lab 42% Lib-Dem 9% Lab Lead 5%


Rural West Northants 120m asl
Short, medium and long range weather forecast videos @ https://www.youtube.com/user/GavsWeatherVids
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