Gooner
19 November 2017 08:48:16

Seems it Tom ECM 264 would be interesting 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


nsrobins
19 November 2017 08:49:36

Originally Posted by: Gooner 


ECM improved this morning, not much mild mush on offer, looks a chilly flow 



Mild mush for most for four or five days - is this not the extent of what’s reliable? 😉


The extended has gone from a fairly significant signal for mobility to once again more uncertainty. 


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Gooner
19 November 2017 09:20:23

I’m fairly confident of a switch to a more NWy flow after Neil , but I take your level headed view on board 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


David M Porter
19 November 2017 09:22:46

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


The ECM ensemble suite has detected another potential evolution in the 12z



Suddenly a noticeable cold cluster has reappeared with cold to very cold conditions becoming progressively the dominant grouping by the end and dragging the ensemble mean down from around day 7-8.


It confirms the uncertainty in the possible evolution of the pattern over the next week or two.


But a mild week ahead seems fairly certain for much of England if not further north.  Next weekend onwards may prove to hold some increasing interest.....


Or it may all change again....




This morning's ECM 00z op run is not without interest for sure, Gandalf. It seems to be indicating a more amplified pattern developing once this coming week has passed and, as far as I can tell from what it shows, it would be none too mild for many areas is what ECM shows was to verify.


Interesting times ahead, I feel.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
four
  • four
  • Advanced Member
19 November 2017 09:23:34
GFS is back to a 2010 scenario by the 25th - potentially snowy period down the east coast.
Gandalf The White
19 November 2017 10:05:36

Originally Posted by: Tom Oxon 

Somewhat of a change of heart across all models this morning, with blocking winning out. Certainly the ECM 240 albeit a long way out is gearing up for a cold North Easterly.


It’s certainly an option. My concern is that all of the energy in the jet stream is in the northern arm. With that solid high pressure belt to the south there’s only one route open and that will put pressure on the block. Looking at the evolution to T+240 I say it will most likely push everything away eastwards - as it stands on this run.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


nsrobins
19 November 2017 10:14:10

Originally Posted by: Gooner 


I’m fairly confident of a switch to a more NWy flow after Neil , but I take your level headed view on board 



It’s a bit of an open book Marcus given the issues the NWP is having with the fairly stout E-QBO and possibke uncertainties about how the stronger than forecast La Niña is affecting things.


As Olórin (to use the original Quenya) says, it’ll take a lot to budge the stubborn Euro high and allow the HLB to predominate, but you never know.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Notty
19 November 2017 10:41:45
http://old.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png 


Possible snow event for some in 6 days


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?ech=6&code=0&mode=2


Notty
Pontypool, 132m asl
Rob K
19 November 2017 10:57:54

Originally Posted by: Notty 


 


Possible snow event for some in 6 days


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?ech=6&code=0&mode=2



Yes I was just looking at that. Possible back edge snow on Saturday but those are always very hit and miss (usually miss!)


ECM doesn't seem to develop that secondary low at all. 


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
JACKO4EVER
19 November 2017 11:02:16
Mild for the reliable timeframe then some consensus across models for a cool down. Further out and more eye candy in FI. All pretty normal for the early transition into winter.
The Beast from the East
19 November 2017 11:18:43


GFS control. Problem is the eye candy is always at long range - like a mirage that disappears. I expect this will be another phantom cold spell. 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Brian Gaze
19 November 2017 11:27:03

A lot of talk about blocking but quite a few runs are actually very progressive with disturbances pushing through cleanly and short lived colder incursions from the northwest developing. Possibly the sort of pattern IRI and Jamstec are teeing up for the winter. 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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doctormog
19 November 2017 11:51:11

Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 

Mild for the reliable timeframe then some consensus across models for a cool down. Further out and more eye candy in FI. All pretty normal for the early transition into winter.


That very much depends where you are located Jason. It looks largely colder than average in northernmost parts and largely milder than average for most southern and central parts. This is confirmed by both anomaly maps and the Met Office outlook (so again as one or two would try to insinuate, it’s not my take it’s what the models show, and should know I have spend enough years/decades looking at them! ) 


Further down the line as others mention there is no shortage of the usual jam tomorrow eye candy.


Solar Cycles
19 November 2017 11:53:56

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 



GFS control. Problem is the eye candy is always at long range - like a mirage that disappears. I expect this will be another phantom cold spell. 


Indeed, these charts  need to be showing within the +144 timeframe to be taken seriously after recent shenanigans.

Gooner
19 November 2017 12:29:10

@Neil , it does seem the Euro high is the killer very little PV to worry about and we get the Euro High which scuppers what potentially could be a very good set up 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gandalf The White
19 November 2017 14:02:14

Originally Posted by: Gooner 


@Neil , it does seem the Euro high is the killer very little PV to worry about and we get the Euro High which scuppers what potentially could be a very good set up 



Not just a Euro high though: any  high pressure close to the south prevents cold air penetrating down through the whole country and prevents the jet taking a southerly track.


 


ECM 00z ensemble suite has twitched again....



The dip to colder conditions signalled by the Op is well supported by the ensemble set. Beyond day 8 the clustering of cold runs has lessened compared with yesterday's 12z.


The odds are shortening on next weekend being cold but with growing uncertainty about what happens from Monday/Tuesday next week.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


marting
19 November 2017 17:10:22
Well 12z GFS was a cold one, wonder where it will sit in the ensembles. Marginal differences in the great scheme of things make quite an impact.
Martin
Martin
Greasby, Wirral.
David M Porter
19 November 2017 17:25:16

Originally Posted by: marting 

Well 12z GFS was a cold one, wonder where it will sit in the ensembles. Marginal differences in the great scheme of things make quite an impact.
Martin


Indeed. I think the ECM 12z this evening plus the runs over the coming days will make for interesting viewing.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
moomin75
19 November 2017 17:30:56

Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


 


Indeed. I think the ECM 12z this evening plus the runs over the coming days will make for interesting viewing.


Indeed. It's a bit of a slow burner this year David, but I remain very positive about our prospects. Zonal train it a'int....hasn't looked that way for some time. This is vastly different to what we have been witnessing in the last few years. Interesting signals still.


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
Nordic Snowman
19 November 2017 17:39:01

Originally Posted by: moomin75 


Indeed. It's a bit of a slow burner this year David, but I remain very positive about our prospects. Zonal train it a'int....hasn't looked that way for some time. This is vastly different to what we have been witnessing in the last few years. Interesting signals still.



This is the model thread, not the annoying winter terminology thread 


On a serious note, I agree that it is one to watch with lots of potential. More runs needed before we prepare for the big freeze 


Bjorli, Norway

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