The Weather Outlook

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JOHN NI
10 December 2018 11:35:50

Back to the SSW that's being consistently forecast by models: - Latest on 06z run.

 

I wanted to ask does the center of the warming i.e 0c or +5c have to be directly over the North Pole or just within the Arctic circle to have a major SSW - it get's up to -15 or -10 at best but the warmest strat air temp is 0c or +5c and on meteociel it's +8c but this never get's directly on top of N. Pole it stays off the top of N. Siberia?

Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 

This is the question I've been asking for sometime. This doesn't resemble the truely sudden warming over the Pole last February but seems to be imported from elsewhere. (Siberia).  I don't think the two are directly comparable and certainly the impact on hemispheric weather patterns has the potential to be entirely different....that's assuming it happens as progged of course. 

We also are now into the westerly phase of the QBO - which will have its say before long. Which big driver will win out ??


John.

The orange County of Armagh.

Rob K
10 December 2018 11:43:59
Back to the nearer future and I see there has a been a major correction on the GEFS 6Z ensemble to show the cooler air holding on this week, at last.
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl

"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

JOHN NI
10 December 2018 11:49:48
Some very mild options now showing in the run-up to Christmas on the 0600 GFS ensembles......


John.

The orange County of Armagh.

tallyho_83
10 December 2018 11:51:13

Some very mild options now showing in the run-up to Christmas on the 0600 GFS ensembles......

Originally Posted by: JOHN NI 

Mild towards Christmas DAY? - makes a change doesn't it??


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

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Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

Whiteout
10 December 2018 12:12:53

 

Have another look at Saturday 18z. 14c is exceptionally mild for mid December.

 

 

Originally Posted by: moomin75 

According to the Met, 7-8 both sat and sun 


Home/Work - Dartmoor

240m/785 ft asl

tallyho_83
10 December 2018 13:25:11

 

This is the question I've been asking for sometime. This doesn't resemble the truely sudden warming over the Pole last February but seems to be imported from elsewhere. (Siberia).  I don't think the two are directly comparable and certainly the impact on hemispheric weather patterns has the potential to be entirely different....that's assuming it happens as progged of course. 

We also are now into the westerly phase of the QBO - which will have its say before long. Which big driver will win out ??

Originally Posted by: JOHN NI 

 

I don't know either - but like last February the SSW started in Siberian side if I remember. I don't understand why It doesn't warm up over the N, POLE/ARCTIC. - Why does it always warm up either side of the Arctic for warmer uppers in strat to push into Arctic /N. Pole? Why doesn't the warming ever start off in Arctic/North Pole? Anyone?


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

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Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

roadrunnerajn
10 December 2018 14:05:05

 

 

I don't know either - but like last February the SSW started in Siberian side if I remember. I don't understand why It doesn't warm up over the N, POLE/ARCTIC. - Why does it always warm up either side of the Arctic for warmer uppers in strat to push into Arctic /N. Pole? Why doesn't the warming ever start off in Arctic/North Pole? Anyone?

Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 

One reason could be that it's totally dark and away from the fringes of the Arctic circle. It's only a suggestion and there are many other factors that also fit into this jigsaw.


Germoe, part of the breakaway Celtic Republic. 80m asl
Gandalf The White
10 December 2018 14:18:44

ECM 00z ensemble for London

Finally the GFS op has deciphered the pattern for this week with the cold air becoming established until late Friday - or Saturday per ECM.

The warm up shown by ECM (for the second successive run) is notable: a high of 3c on Friday to a high of 13c 24 hours later. The op was amongst the mildest options, but double digits looks quite possible at this point.

Beyond that nothing exceptionally cold but the milder options diminish somewhat. At this stage you'd favour a Christmas with normal to slight cool conditions, with highs of 5-8c and lows of 3-5c.

 

 

 


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



Rob K
10 December 2018 15:44:29

At this stage you'd favour a Christmas with normal to slight cool conditions, with highs of 5-8c and lows of 3-5c.

 

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 

 riveting...

 

The charts certainly have a non-descript look to them at the moment.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl

"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

Russwirral
10 December 2018 16:06:33
signs that the "atlantic pushing through on saturday might already be under threat, with less rainfall, and less intensity and more drier Block type weather for UK at the same stage on the latest run... on Saturday.
Russwirral
10 December 2018 16:07:46
we're really missing a deep plunge into eastern scandinavia, or a plume of warm air out of Turkey to really kick an eastlery up a notch.

Instead its all rather... tame.


ballamar
10 December 2018 16:45:43
Well HP still very influential at 228 on GFS not without potential
Solar Cycles
10 December 2018 16:49:15
It’s all looking rather bland at this moment in time the laughable part I suppose is over on the other forum (which shall remain nameless) they’ve been searching and hyping up cold spells for weeks now, and yet we’ve still not seen anything of note other than the odd frost and a bit of sleet in someone’s backyard. 😜
jhall
10 December 2018 16:56:13

We have another 'pizza' this again?

 

 

Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 

You're likely to see one every time there's a depression with a non-occluded warm sector, so they're going to be very common whenever the set-up is more or less zonal.


Cranleigh, Surrey
jhall
10 December 2018 17:03:30

Back to the SSW that's being consistently forecast by models: - Latest on 06z run.

 

I wanted to ask does the center of the warming i.e 0c or +5c have to be directly over the North Pole or just within the Arctic circle to have a major SSW - it get's up to -15 or -10 at best but the warmest strat air temp is 0c or +5c and on meteociel it's +8c but this never get's directly on top of N. Pole it stays off the top of N. Siberia?

Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 

It's a good question and is something that concerns me too, especially as the centre of the warming seems to be pretty much right on the opposite side of the Pole to us. The effect seems to be to "squash up" the polar vortex towards our side of the Pole. It doesn't look from those charts as if the normal stratospheric westerlies would be any weaker than usual in our neck of the woods.


Cranleigh, Surrey
Retron
10 December 2018 17:12:07

 

It's a good question and is something that concerns me too, especially as the centre of the warming seems to be pretty much right on the opposite side of the Pole to us. The effect seems to be to "squash up" the polar vortex towards our side of the Pole. It doesn't look from those charts as if the normal stratospheric westerlies would be any weaker than usual in our neck of the woods.

Originally Posted by: jhall 

As has been said on here many a time over the years, major SSWs are defined by a reversal of zonal winds, not just temperature. So even if it gets to +20 over the pole, if the overall circulation is zonal it's not a major SSW.

What you see in those charts is a minor SSW, the sort that displaces the vortex rather than causing a reverse zonal flow. If it's a breakdown of the pattern you want, you want a major, not a minor.

(The Holy Grail was said in the old days to be a Canadian Warming. We saw one of those prior to the "Beast From the East" earlier this year and, as you can imagine, they're rare beasts!)

 


Leysdown, north Kent
Rob K
10 December 2018 17:59:47

12Z GFSP gives a spell of snow from the E Midlands north on Saturday.

 

 

Then it runs a 945mb dartboard across Scotland early next week. Meanwhile the GFS operational tries to build another mini Scandi high, keeping things a little cooler for a while.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl

"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

nsrobins
10 December 2018 18:09:37
Projected strat warmings aside, it all looks fairly uninspiring longer term to be honest.

If there were to be effects from any SSW, the longer range NWP should start to pick them up in the next week (presumably). It otherwise looks back to unsettled Atlantic driven stuff after this weeks much discussed and dare I say it overanalysed cool snap.


Neil

Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)

Stormchaser, Member TORRO

Steve Murr
10 December 2018 18:21:56

-9c uppers into London Fri with light snow flurries !!!

Snowedin3
10 December 2018 18:33:31
ECM looks interesting at 144 👀
Dean Barnes

Finstock, Chipping Norton, Oxfordshire

160m ASL 525 Ft

Rob K
10 December 2018 18:48:38

-10C at 850 on the ECM on Friday

 

 

And then a cheeky wraparound of colder air as a breakaway low goes through.

 

 

 

Still just delaying the inevitable mild mush though.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl

"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

Steve Murr
10 December 2018 18:51:28

So the models have completely backtracked in the last 3-4 days, It just goes to show that continually forecasting the same atlantic scenario often comes to bite you on the bum-

@Shropshire @moomin
Even Mr Hugo probably wishing he hadnt tweeted dismissing the cold-

Even the ECM not immune to change ---Just 3 days ago ECM predicting -3c 850s for London at day 7 with the atlantic moving through- today the 96 chart is at -10c with atlantic a long way stepped back-
So much westward correction & downward change of the uppers it really does cement the UKs chances of a decent snow event this weekend...

Whether Idle
10 December 2018 19:24:28

Well, I'm pretty underwhelmed by the block hanging on for an extra day or two before being robustly shunted aside by the end of Saturday.

 A fairly low key event, serving if nothing else to at least cool things off a bit to something more akin to winter.  

10 days now and the days will start to lengthen, the long climb out of the darkness begins.


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Gandalf The White
10 December 2018 20:24:11

Well, I'm pretty underwhelmed by the block hanging on for an extra day or two before being robustly shunted aside by the end of Saturday.

 A fairly low key event, serving if nothing else to at least cool things off a bit to something more akin to winter.  

10 days now and the days will start to lengthen, the long climb out of the darkness begins.

Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 

Given that the block was supposed to be shunted aside by Wednesday and it's now Saturday, that's still five days agreed.  I don't think it's yet certain to be 'shunted away' either.  We've seen days now of the models constantly shifting as the signals have shifted and I'm not convinced that process has ended, nor is there any reason to believe it must have ended.    The block to the east doesn't get blown away and the jetstream isn't being modelled to become reenergised into the weekend.


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



Gooner
10 December 2018 20:46:50

I've gone through the GEFS and I don't seem many hints in the way of blocking.

Looks like we will have to wait for 2019 before we see anything of note 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus

Banbury

North Oxfordshire

378 feet A S L



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