The Weather Outlook

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doctormog
29 October 2018 17:36:35

This is shaping up for a discussion about whether charts or ensembles are the most reliable predictors. Probably you need to analyse both, but if time presses? Ensembles give you a quick look at a variety of outcomes, but without any background; chass show what might develop and where, but working through all the perturbations for the next 10 days is a bit much, even for weather freaks, so chart enthusiasts let the professionals do that and concentrate on the op run.

Myself I prefer charts, and reckon that consistent op runs viewed daily across different models are reliable, even into FI, and offer a more interesting overall picture.

Originally Posted by: DEW 

The problem arises, as in the last few days, when you do not get consistency between different models or different runs of the same model in the medium to longer term. There’s little point in posting a chart for one scenario at day 7 and then six or 12 hours later the equivalent chart but showing a totally different scenario. The only purpose it would serve is to highlight a lack of consistency in the model. It does take time to get a good picture of what is going on, but a partial picture may be worse than simply looking at a forecast (which is based on a fuller picture).

On the rare occasion you get consistent op runs in FI it usually indicates a strong signal and is good take note of. Sadly much of the time that is not the case and looking at the individuals runs can easily give the wrong impression. 

I could, for example, post the following chart and say that Saturday looks incredibly unsettled across much of the U.K. bu that would confuse people based on a different operational run of a different model showing a different scenario. Which is right? 

 

There is a reason forecast use as much data as possible. I realise for many that is not an option as it is time consuming - it is however more reliable.


marco 79
29 October 2018 18:40:58
In the meantime...Western Europe is seeing some extreme atmospheric amplification over the next 24hrs....quite rare synoptics..Latest Op run dives the jet South again in 7 days time...Op keeps on the cold side of perts...
Home : Mid Leicestershire ...135m ASL
severnside
29 October 2018 20:00:10

While we are in the cool zone, a huge blocking High over Western Russia, Central Europe is giving some incredible temperatures there, in Krakow on Thursday predicted 22 c !! quite incredible for this time of year. They have had a terrific run of warm/hot weather starting 2nd week of April and still lasting. I believe not only the Greenland Highs can give us poor weather but also when such strong Highs over Western Russia, Central Europe have a bigger influence than we think.

picturesareme
29 October 2018 21:03:59
And I guess the soon to be Cat 2 hurricane meandering about in the mid Atlantic isn't helping..
tallyho_83
30 October 2018 00:58:35

ECM - again a long way off but quite a big area of HP/ northern blocking developing over the Arctic stretching down and into Scandinavia: @240:

 This could well push cold air out of Pole and a wintry blast towards the end of November but who knows? This is only one ECMWF run and it's in FI but the ECMWF is the most reliable of them all IMO! 


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

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Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

tallyho_83
30 October 2018 12:23:29

Such a quiet tread on here:

Yet again - still there is a northern blocking signal for the 2nd week of November according to the ECM's latest 00z run:

 


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

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Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

Gavin D
30 October 2018 19:22:36

ECM 12z doesn't look overly cold from around Friday as we begin to bring winds in from the south or south-west. The cold air is pushed a long north 

ECMOPEU12_72_2.thumb.png.f153a41ef95162cd0ac283b03356d985.pngECMOPEU12_120_2.thumb.png.ccac224ecc8a636e3131613e720e3045.png

ECMOPEU12_168_2.thumb.png.bad1839bdcf6aae2217b2514baeb66c9.pngECMOPEU12_216_2.thumb.png.b87c2095f1045ffe9a42027db1b3c457.png

ECMOPEU12_240_2.thumb.png.cca17c7fd7b734256d01327c4dd35413.png

tallyho_83
30 October 2018 22:58:13

18z Op - Looking more and more blocked each run: Notice how these LP systems just stall and then fizzle out!! Also Notice how that HP moves north westward towards Scandinavia and then retrogresses towards Iceland and then Greenland deep into FI - A long way off but given the met Office forecast for the next 16-30 days this is worth keeping an eye on! 

 

 


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

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Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

tallyho_83
30 October 2018 23:26:44
So quiet on here? woah!
Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

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Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
31 October 2018 07:29:39

So quiet on here? woah!

Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 

Ex-Oscar brewing up a storm with severe gales and rain for Northern Ireland and NW Scotland on Fri/Sat - but unjustifiably, even given the low population density in that area, the forecast is in the 'dog bites man' category.


War is God's way of teaching Americans geography - Ambrose Bierce

Chichester 12m asl

Gavin D
31 October 2018 09:05:49

Little change from ECM overnight with the cold air pushed a long way north. Unsettled at times for the UK with the risk of heavy rain and strong winds.

ECMOPEU00_72_2.thumb.png.1eb0eb0926505951e0c312e86a514905.pngECMOPEU00_120_2.thumb.png.c8ba78ca9c81e787949dc9b942825390.png

ECMOPEU00_168_2.thumb.png.299865d62b3562050f66cbeab947e5c1.pngECMOPEU00_216_2.thumb.png.9892a12a9d2fdde00a6ffeb59b2d18b5.png

ECMOPEU00_240_2.thumb.png.08373696e35b1220c0f8c9a6372aad58.png

ballamar
31 October 2018 10:37:57
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSOPEU06_210_1.png 

If you can ignore the short term rubbish mild gunk this is potentially setting up for some incredibly interesting Synoptics. Yes we could be on the mild side of blocking but it looks more likely cold frosty and foggy conditions will be upon us by mid month. Get the cold in place and all that......

Maunder Minimum
31 October 2018 10:48:01

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSOPEU06_210_1.png

If you can ignore the short term rubbish mild gunk this is potentially setting up for some incredibly interesting Synoptics. Yes we could be on the mild side of blocking but it looks more likely cold frosty and foggy conditions will be upon us by mid month. Get the cold in place and all that......

Originally Posted by: ballamar 

The interesting things are happening in the Artic - the PV looks disorganised and northern blocking is on the menu. That always has to be the first part of the jigsaw - the last thing we coldies want to see if the PV taking up residence in its usual place with the zonal train coming in.

When we get blocking, it does not automatically mean we get cold straight away - but it is part of the process of getting cold weather down the line.


New world order coming.
Solar Cycles
31 October 2018 10:55:35

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSOPEU06_210_1.png

If you can ignore the short term rubbish mild gunk this is potentially setting up for some incredibly interesting Synoptics. Yes we could be on the mild side of blocking but it looks more likely cold frosty and foggy conditions will be upon us by mid month. Get the cold in place and all that......

Originally Posted by: ballamar 

The potential for a blocked, cold second half of the November seems to be gathering pace, even the mild gunk will send plenty of WAA into the Arctic.

tallyho_83
31 October 2018 11:10:10

Yes re the 06z I know this is FI but the trend is a blocked 2nd half of November now.- Soon the ECM will follow but only goes up to 240z. Notice how these LP systems take a southerly track and then die out as HP moves

into Scandinavia toward the end

 I shall be in Budapest between 10th and 17th November and they have been experiencing temperatures some 10c above normal lately. The positioning of the high is crucial as to where or not we get warm air or cold air (easterly).

 


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

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Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

marco 79
31 October 2018 12:53:10
Latest GEFS suggests fairly dry weather for SE UK..after tomorrows rain ..up to mid month..those rainfall spikes look to be diminishing...
Home : Mid Leicestershire ...135m ASL
ballamar
31 October 2018 17:37:18
GFS puts in in more of a standard Autumnal pattern - blocking gets pushed away slightly easier. Personally would think the block will intensify slightly more than this op run but depends if jet stream peps up a little
Gavin D
31 October 2018 18:26:35

The 00z climate outlook didn't show much in the way of below average temps widely across Europe

Arcus
31 October 2018 18:40:45

The 00z climate outlook didn't show much in the way of below average temps widely across Europe

Originally Posted by: Gavin D 

Crikey I didn't realise the GFS Op has been upgraded from T+384 to T+262800.


Ben,

Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire

30m asl

Gavin D
31 October 2018 18:57:15

12z ECM following on from previous runs with mild west or southwesterly winds for the UK plenty of wind and rain but a few shorter calmer interludes

ECMOPEU12_72_2.thumb.png.afabb59e3587a1d6472b87267e4e79a7.pngECMOPEU12_120_2.thumb.png.44583b2624b6a17f0a60cab6e8b78203.png

ECMOPEU12_168_2.thumb.png.b1eebf4d12a644eb4b24afdbfdc82096.pngECMOPEU12_216_2.thumb.png.56921ffff93d315e9997bf2e1720573c.png

ECMOPEU12_240_2.thumb.png.a753649031e60cb75124fb1e8323a850.png

tallyho_83
31 October 2018 19:03:25

But from the N. Pole view down - even the ECM - looks like quite a northern blocking starting to take shape around +240:

Certainly not a strong PV that's for sure!

 


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

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Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

doctormog
31 October 2018 19:22:55
Yes, the lack of organisation of the polar vortex for the time of year is interesting, even if it does end up with lots of mainly southerly winds for the U.K. as is shown in the ECM operational run.

It could prove very wet for some SWern parts if thyou ECM run verifies (the GFS/GEFS output is less wet) and very windy at times in the west or more especially northwest. Mostly around average temperature wise but maybe a degree or so above in places at times, nothing notable.


JACKO4EVER
31 October 2018 19:31:08
The PV and all that could be a red herring- although it helps in winter for it to be obliterated that doesn’t guarantee us not being wet and windy- the Atlantic itself can take care of that.

And talking of that a major Atlantic storm looks set to batter the North West this weekend, thereafter standard late Autumnal fayre looks the best bet of wind and rain, though not a total washout for sure.

Gavin D
01 November 2018 09:01:54

Little change again overnight from ECM the UK turns milder but with some deep lows bringing heavy rain and strong winds with a few shorter calmer interludes in between

ECMOPEU00_48_2.thumb.png.c9384b681bf9b5e0601f7af94b5e243a.pngECMOPEU00_96_2.thumb.png.d5814b5df5cf893675f3dbf947b24a5f.png

ECMOPEU00_144_2.thumb.png.da1c3817a87c395527c762a5a1359c56.pngECMOPEU00_192_2.thumb.png.7faa3a8a32dfdae99a05512c3001297c.png

ECMOPEU00_240_2.thumb.png.17e96a94c6fc5c630db0f9a85bb275c6.png

Solar Cycles
01 November 2018 09:43:55
Get the brollies out it’s going to be wet.

A turnaround from previous outputs this morning, Scandy heights are sinking leading us into the dreaded Euro slug whilst heights lower over Greenland at the same time.

Let’s hope we don’t see a change in the wording in the extended output from Exeter over the next day or so.

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