Gavin D
Monday, June 26, 2017 8:54:08 PM
Parts of eastern Scotland could reach 19c on Friday as winds swing around to more of a north to northwesterly
johncs2016
Monday, June 26, 2017 8:55:27 PM

Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


 


The MetO updates for this month haven't been that far off the mark. They went for an unsettled opening to June, followed by a drier and warmer spell around mid-month beofre a return to more unsettled weather towards the end of the month. That is pretty much how the month has panned out in reality.


That is not to say that their anticipated improvement for mid-July will definitely happen, but if their current thoughts for July end up being as accurate as their predictions for June, summer isn't over yet by any means.



The predictions for June may well have fine, but that hasn't been enough to prevent this month from being much wetter than average overall, and I'm not sure if that was accurately predicted or not. If we assume that the June predictions were accurate though, this might have ended up being a fluke. That can sometimes have even with long term models as we found out last year when the CFS predicted about six months in advance, the really really mild and wet winter which would later follow in 2015/16.


Most people at the time (including gavin P. in his videos at that time) saw such an extreme forecasts so far in advance as being very much over the top, but the CFS continued to stuck to its guns and in the end, that was exactly what happened. However, that is probably about the only time in which they have even come close to getting that right, and that in turn shows that long term modelling can never be taken seriously.


It is the same with the Met Office as well, and we have to remember that this is the same Met Office who a number of years ago, was pulverised by the public and the media for predicting the barbecue summer which never actually happened, or the mild winter in arond 2009/10 which as we all know, never happened either. In fact this public criticism was so great that not long afterwards, they were actually forced to give up on publicly announcing their long term forecasts altogether over the media.


I will stress though that I'm not actually criticising the Met Office in any way here. What actually happened here was a result of a misunderstanding at the time by the public regarding the nature in which long term modelling works, or the fact that this can never really be fully relied upon and I don't mactually think that Met Office were in any way at fault here. Neverthless, the fact that long term modelling can never be fully relied on means that although they might have predicted June fairly well, that still doesn't mean that I can fully trust any of those hints of better weather in July which they have been giving.


The reason for is that is simply down to the fact that long term forecasting can never be fully reliable, and not because I don't trust the Met Office in particular. What I mentioned above is therefore, what I think will happen during the rest of the summer based on SSTs, the NAO and the AO but as with any other form of longer term forecasting, I hope that you will also take this as something which can never be fully relied upon but something which you can draw your own conclusions from.


 


The north of Edinburgh, usually always missing out on snow events which occur not just within the rest of Scotland or the UK, but also within the rest of Edinburgh.
doctormog
Monday, June 26, 2017 9:06:19 PM

Originally Posted by: Gavin D 

Parts of eastern Scotland could reach 19c on Friday as winds swing around to more of a north to northwesterly


Got a link (for the 19°C)? I would have thought 16°C at a push based on current data.


moomin75
Monday, June 26, 2017 10:44:36 PM
Decent mid term GFS on the 18z run. Shows a slow but steady recovery towards summer as Brian hinted at from the Ensembles yesterday. The 144-192hr period is the critical time as the heat rapidly intensifies to our south again and sends part of jet back north, thus sucking the heat up towards us.

http://old.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1922.gif 

One run and obviously FI but shows that this unsettled spell may not last as long as it was feared by some.
Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
johncs2016
Tuesday, June 27, 2017 4:46:26 AM

Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


 


The MetO updates for this month haven't been that far off the mark. They went for an unsettled opening to June, followed by a drier and warmer spell around mid-month beofre a return to more unsettled weather towards the end of the month. That is pretty much how the month has panned out in reality.


That is not to say that their anticipated improvement for mid-July will definitely happen, but if their current thoughts for July end up being as accurate as their predictions for June, summer isn't over yet by any means.



At the moment though, we are already just about at the point where we have already had our average June and july rainfall put together so far this month, and it's raining yet again as I write. This means that we are already at the point where we will need to be experiencing an exceptionally dry July and August if this isn't going to go down as a wetter than average summer here in Edinburgh, overall. This means that even if the better weather which is being modelled for July comes off, we are actually technically speaking, not all that far away already from the point where we can write off this summer altogether in terms of rainfall, at least.


Furthermore, I would imagine that whilst I'm not going to write off our chamces altogether for better weather during July (this is the British weather that we are discussing after all, where anything can end up happening regardless of what the models tell us), any decent weather which does come up during July is probably going to be most likely to occur in the south of England (as what tends to be the norm with the weather in this country), and that might not end up helping us all that much up here in Scotland where we would therefore, still be at the greatest risk of remaining unsettled throughout that period in question.


 


 


The north of Edinburgh, usually always missing out on snow events which occur not just within the rest of Scotland or the UK, but also within the rest of Edinburgh.
speckledjim
Tuesday, June 27, 2017 7:04:11 AM

Originally Posted by: moomin75 

Decent mid term GFS on the 18z run. Shows a slow but steady recovery towards summer as Brian hinted at from the Ensembles yesterday. The 144-192hr period is the critical time as the heat rapidly intensifies to our south again and sends part of jet back north, thus sucking the heat up towards us.

http://old.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1922.gif

One run and obviously FI but shows that this unsettled spell may not last as long as it was feared by some.


ECM is trending more to high pressure building during the first week of July though of course it is in FI so nothing to get too excited about at present. We'll just have to deal with the much needed (for my location) rain over the next few days....


Thorner, West Yorkshire


Journalism is organised gossip
Gavin D
Tuesday, June 27, 2017 7:06:25 AM

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


 


Got a link (for the 19°C)? I would have thought 16°C at a push based on current data.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/features/40412290


Slowly getting a bit better from Saturday


ECMOPEU00_96_1.thumb.png.62a2a1658b85007256122a6ab7ca5e37.pngECMOPEU00_144_1.thumb.png.7fefd4cc66d9653910a65ddbbe2e7abe.pngECMOPEU00_192_1.thumb.png.d04bfa849900cac611bb4246be5193ce.pngECMOPEU00_240_1.thumb.png.264b096e22bf7bdb47d141626ac2515f.png

Hungry Tiger
Tuesday, June 27, 2017 9:45:58 AM

Originally Posted by: Gavin D 


 


http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/features/40412290


Slowly getting a bit better from Saturday


ECMOPEU00_96_1.thumb.png.62a2a1658b85007256122a6ab7ca5e37.pngECMOPEU00_144_1.thumb.png.7fefd4cc66d9653910a65ddbbe2e7abe.pngECMOPEU00_192_1.thumb.png.d04bfa849900cac611bb4246be5193ce.pngECMOPEU00_240_1.thumb.png.264b096e22bf7bdb47d141626ac2515f.png



Lets hope - It grey and overcast imby and just 17C.


 


Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


Gavin D
Tuesday, June 27, 2017 11:33:28 AM

06z showing some more seasonal temperatures next week


GFSOPUK06_156_17.thumb.png.e2451ba4db5884808d763115df2508cd.pngGFSOPUK06_180_17.thumb.png.0496b10f065e15daf4b10bd4b78ac448.pngGFSOPUK06_204_17.thumb.png.4afe43912d7c343edca7801123db19c4.pngGFSOPUK06_225_17.thumb.png.eab23346bfd377c25dd99f921745a7a8.pngGFSOPUK06_252_17.thumb.png.00a907ed7b95cc49cfdabeec8c7208e8.png


TimS
  • TimS
  • Advanced Member
Tuesday, June 27, 2017 1:18:01 PM
The ensembles are getting flatter and flatter, with little spread around the mean. Suspiciously so.

That's usually the sign for some major pattern change that will take us by surprise at short notice.

You heard it here first...
Brockley, South East London 30m asl
Sevendust
Tuesday, June 27, 2017 3:38:22 PM

Originally Posted by: TimS 

The ensembles are getting flatter and flatter, with little spread around the mean. Suspiciously so.

That's usually the sign for some major pattern change that will take us by surprise at short notice.

You heard it here first...


Yep - at first site they look very boring for summer. Hopefully something will change

Gavin D
Tuesday, June 27, 2017 4:23:58 PM

This is more like it a new trend hopefully


UKMOPEU12_120_1.thumb.png.52df4c64e01f730e8cb1fd7a556b5c0e.pngUKMOPEU12_144_1.thumb.png.ebdf543b1d9279c5054b48790462a05b.png


doctormog
Tuesday, June 27, 2017 4:35:22 PM
Much more encouraging (and thanks for that link earlier too Gavin).
Jiries
Tuesday, June 27, 2017 4:41:27 PM

Originally Posted by: TimS 

The ensembles are getting flatter and flatter, with little spread around the mean. Suspiciously so.

That's usually the sign for some major pattern change that will take us by surprise at short notice.

You heard it here first...


I remember it was flat lined before the major heatwave came up and I hope it does the same again for early July, each run showing more stronger HP coming back here at the weekend and the unsettled spell would only last 3-4 days so not bad.  

Joe Bloggs
Tuesday, June 27, 2017 4:42:12 PM

I survived Glastonbury and there was only a tiny bit of rain doing nothing to dampen the extremely dry and barren land. Wonderful and a stark contrast to last year.


After a crap week this week signs of things settling down once again as we head towards the weekend. Still a lot of time for it to go pearshaped and not to be trusted quite yet, but positive signs.


http://old.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rukm1441.gif


 



Manchester City Centre, 31m ASL

David M Porter
Tuesday, June 27, 2017 4:52:56 PM

Originally Posted by: doctormog 

Much more encouraging (and thanks for that link earlier too Gavin).


Agree 100% Michael. Nothing for fans of proper summer weather to be downhearted about this evening, IMO.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
moomin75
Tuesday, June 27, 2017 5:03:20 PM

Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


 


Agree 100% Michael. Nothing for fans of proper summer weather to be downhearted about this evening, IMO.


Indeed. Very encouraging trend across all models and it looks increasingly as though this week will be a blip in an otherwise lovely summer. We haven't had a drop of rain today here either so it's win win here. The UKMO 12z looks particularly encouraging in my view.


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
picturesareme
Tuesday, June 27, 2017 6:27:46 PM

Originally Posted by: Jiries 


 


I remember it was flat lined before the major heatwave came up and I hope it does the same again for early July, each run showing more stronger HP coming back here at the weekend and the unsettled spell would only last 3-4 days so not bad.  



Major heatwave jires? When.. what year?

Arcus
Tuesday, June 27, 2017 6:37:35 PM
Looks like a cycle that started with the fine spell toward the end of May followed by a doom'n'gloom outlook on the models that flipped into another ridged scenario that led to our recent heatwave may repeat again. I'm not always a fan of patterns repeating, but it's too interesting to be ignored in this case.
Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
moomin75
Tuesday, June 27, 2017 6:57:25 PM
A very nice ECM 12z too rounds off an excellent afternoon of model watching for summer lovers. Increasing confidence of a quick settle down and a return to summer.
Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
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