squish
Gavin D
06 February 2017 12:06:48

No quick return to mild weather that's for sure


gensnh-21-1-384.png?6gensnh-21-0-384.png?6

Gooner
06 February 2017 12:28:23

John Hammond @hammondweather



At the risk of sounding like we're in the middle of a . Events in tropical Pacific = UK Feb more likely.



Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


ballamar
06 February 2017 12:37:38

Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


 


Hi Rob


I know where you're coming from but this time we have by far the best background signals of the winter, with a high amplitude phase 7-8 MJO propagation coupled with the polar vortex stretching and splitting being about as good as it gets (if only the timing was so optimal!).


I have spent some time trying to figure out what's messing with ECM's reading of the signals and whether it could be a genuine phenomenon that should be factored in, but so far have come up with nothing of value.


Anyway - as far as we (professionals in general) know, high latitude blocking is currently more plausible than not for mid-late Feb. That's as far as I can say without getting told off 



 


Will there be advanced warnings soon as there was in 2010?? 😀

nsrobins
06 February 2017 12:42:36
Another uptick in depth and longevity this morning. As a general guide uppers of -3/-4 will do so long as dps are sub zero, which they are generally by Fri except where surface layer mixing occurs right on the E coast.
By Tues/Weds mainstream will be talking about snow possibilities Sat/Sun.
It's coming ❄
Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
nsrobins
06 February 2017 12:44:40

Originally Posted by: Gooner 


John Hammond @hammondweather



At the risk of sounding like we're in the middle of a . Events in tropical Pacific = UK Feb more likely.




Good to have JH around for this one. He likes his cold weather. Really looking forward to seeing snow graphics on the charts again - it's been a long time.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
polarwind
06 February 2017 12:53:15

Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


 


Hi Rob


I know where you're coming from but this time we have by far the best background signals of the winter, with a high amplitude phase 7-8 MJO propagation coupled with the polar vortex stretching and splitting being about as good as it gets (if only the timing was so optimal!).


I have spent some time trying to figure out what's messing with ECM's reading of the signals and whether it could be a genuine phenomenon that should be factored in, but so far have come up with nothing of value.


Anyway - as far as we (professionals in general) know, high latitude blocking is currently more plausible than not for mid-late Feb. That's as far as I can say without getting told off 


Model output, not just the ECM, no doubt, will have been adjusted, with the outcomes of the forecasts of the last 25 years. But several posters, have likened current outputs to those of the 60's and 80's. which suggests and you recognise, that we are perhaps missing the input of a factor, which has been absent or reduced recently. It is perhaps now returning?


 


 


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Dave,Derby
Russwirral
06 February 2017 12:53:39

Temps at the surface look chilly for the forseable.


 


Enjoy the last day of "Mild" for now


 


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Foghorn
06 February 2017 13:12:10
As the saying goes "long notice, long last, short notice, soon past".
Stormchaser
06 February 2017 14:00:02

Originally Posted by: polarwind 


Model output, not just the ECM, no doubt, will have been adjusted, with the outcomes of the forecasts of the last 25 years. But several posters, have likened current outputs to those of the 60's and 80's. which suggests and you recognise, that we are perhaps missing the input of a factor, which has been absent or reduced recently. It is perhaps now returning? 



Interesting proposal there - as far as I know it's the PDO and AMO combination that's akin to the 80s but neither have particularly robust impacts on Eurasian weather patterns, though the evidence is mixed which leaves it open to much debate. For example, sometimes a warm AMO is linked with Atlantic storms powering east, and others it's linked with blocking highs near Greenland/Iceland. I suspect the exact spatial distribution of SSTs within positive AMO configurations is important. One day I hope to find the answers.


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Notty
06 February 2017 14:53:59

Surely the unprecedented low Arctic Sea Ice Volume at the moment must have some impact on the weather that the NWP models might not be engineered to deal with as the current conditions (or similar) could not have been encountered by the models before.


Some info here - http://neven1.typepad.com/


 


Notty
Pontypool, 132m asl
Saint Snow
06 February 2017 14:58:19

Originally Posted by: Notty 


Surely the unprecedented low Arctic Sea Ice Volume at the moment must have some impact on the weather that the NWP models might not be engineered to deal with as the current conditions (or similar) could not have been encountered by the models before.


Some info here - http://neven1.typepad.com/


 



 


I agree. And around 2009/2010 I was convinced it would result in a greater prevalence of HLB over the North Atlantic but, although Jan-Mar 2013 was characterised by HLB, we've struggled to establish this since.



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
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some faraway beach
06 February 2017 15:21:02

Originally Posted by: Notty 


Surely the unprecedented low Arctic Sea Ice Volume at the moment must have some impact on the weather that the NWP models might not be engineered to deal with as the current conditions (or similar) could not have been encountered by the models before.


Some info here - http://neven1.typepad.com/


 



Interesting. This discussion began over people's memories of forecasts similarly underestimating the strength and persistence of blocking back in 1963 and 1947.


That might suggest that the current Arctic sea-ice volume is not at all "unprecedented". After all, that link, along with our records, only goes back as far as 1979. 


2 miles west of Taunton, 32 m asl, where "milder air moving in from the west" becomes SNOWMAGEDDON.
Well, two or three times a decade it does, anyway.
Hungry Tiger
06 February 2017 15:36:53

We must remind ourselves that central Europe has had sub -20sC which has helped freeze over Lake Balaton in Hungary.


There is some very cold air to the east.


 


Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


Gavin D
06 February 2017 15:49:55

Early stages of the 12z sees the coldest air a bit further east compared to the 06z


fairweather
06 February 2017 15:55:18

Originally Posted by: Notty 


Surely the unprecedented low Arctic Sea Ice Volume at the moment must have some impact on the weather that the NWP models might not be engineered to deal with as the current conditions (or similar) could not have been encountered by the models before.


Some info here - http://neven1.typepad.com/


 



My guess is that if we've thought of it the experts probably have and taken it into account if they think it relevant.


S.Essex, 42m ASL
Gavin D
06 February 2017 15:55:53

Real cold air still slower at t78



06z



 

Gavin D
06 February 2017 16:00:31

That low to the NW of Spain is a fair bit different to 24hrs ago


12z yesterday


gfs-0-102.png?12


12z today


gfs-0-78.png?12


Chiltern Blizzard
06 February 2017 16:19:50

12z certainly a lot colder than yesterday's 12z for first week, but early plunge of sub-10c air on 6z into south-east is dropped with 850 temps much higher at day 3....


Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
glenogle
06 February 2017 16:21:25

Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 


Snow showers or wintry flurries? By Sunday?


Netweather GFS Image


Netweather GFS Image


Netweather GFS Image


 



You often hear of the Thames streamer, but looks like a firth of forth steamer setting up in the middle pic.


 


UserPostedImage LLTNP 105m asl 
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