Thread renamed.

I was recently watching a video of my late dad and I skiing just outside York (Terrington or Bulmer Bank IIRC) ~1985. I can remember it reasonably well. The snow had fallen several days earlier, but low temperatures kept it in good nick. The farmer who owned the land said he would look into buying a rope tow for future winters! Hopefully he had second thoughts, if not it could have bankrupted him given what was coming down the line! 

That late-80's/early 90's period was pretty disappointing for snow and sustained cold overall, wasn't it? I know there were a couple of events, but 1991 apart, I don't remember anything remarkable for either its deep snowfalls or prolonged cold. And some very mild winters thrown in there.



 

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It was a great period. Still got some screenshots from traffic cams on the M6 & M62 from the Jan & Mar. What was weird is that Manchester - even west Manchester - largely missed out, especially in the March

Not that weird really, now I understand the local geography more. With easterlies / South easterlies we get the foehn snow shadow effect. I now have zero interest in frontal snow here when there’s an easterly involved. 2013 was horribly disappointing here.

Let’s have some deep cold convection off the Irish Sea 2009 style. 🤣 

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I feel inclined to respond to a few posts in the MO regarding Dec2010 and it being a non event in the South. I lived in Sevenoaks at the time and its the only time in my life i've experienced snow settling to such a depth that the cars parked on my street were entirely buried in snow and you could not differentiate between the roads, pavements and peoples front gardens such was the depth and drifting. Whilst it was certainly a local event for many it was by no means a non event for many of us in the South / South East. It remains the most significant snow of my lifetime by a considerable margin.

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Not that weird really, now I understand the local geography more. With easterlies / South easterlies we get the foehn snow shadow effect. I now have zero interest in frontal snow here when there’s an easterly involved. 2013 was horribly disappointing here.

Let’s have some deep cold convection off the Irish Sea 2009 style. 🤣 

West is certainly best for your locale, Joe!

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West is certainly best for your locale, Joe!

The dream is to get an Arctic NW’ly with snow for many northern and western parts followed by a freezing cold convective easterly to bring London and the SE to a standstill. Followed then by attempted breakdowns from the south to give a widespread blizzard. 

Not much to ask surely?  🤣

Fingers crossed for further upgrades in the 12z. 

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December 2010 was most certainly an event where I lived in leatherhead in Surrey. A Thames streamer set up on November 30th and the snow kept falling at varying intensity through 1st December and into 2nd. By the end the snow depth was over 30cm and much higher on the downs (the powder on Reigate hill was superb when I went for a snowboard up there, at the time 😉). Then we had more epic snow around the 18th/19th December, which left a good 20cm in depth and lasted through Christmas Day and Boxing day. It was epic down here, but I guess one caveat is my location and proximity to the right part of the north downs, put me in a prime spot.    

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December 2010 was most certainly an event where I lived in leatherhead in Surrey. A Thames streamer set up on November 30th and the snow kept falling at varying intensity through 1st December and into 2nd. By the end the snow depth was over 30cm and much higher on the downs (the powder on Reigate hill was superb when I went for a snowboard up there, at the time 😉). Then we had more epic snow around the 18th/19th December, which left a good 20cm in depth and lasted through Christmas Day and Boxing day. It was epic down here, but I guess one caveat is my location and proximity to the right part of the north downs, put me in a prime spot.    

Well, i'm glad i'm not the only one as i felt i was going mad or i was remembering incorrectly!

Sevenoaks is high up on the North Downs so not too dissimilar to your scenario. I also remember well a mate of mine arriving at the pub just down from the town centre on his snowboard! You're also correct in that we had a second dumping near Xmas too - the snow really seemed to last forever that year.

I recall flying out to Belfast on Boxing Day and being interviewed by UTV @ Belfast International as we were the only flight in from Gatwick that day. The situation was similar in Belfast too with a good few inches of snow, extreme cold and a frozen River Lagan...so not even a non-event 350miles to the NW!

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I think the perceptions of Dec 10 vary hugely across the country.

The first phase was cold for most, with heavy and widespread snow in Northern/Eastern Scotland & NE England/parts of Yorks, plus some more localised snow in EA/the SE/S.

Southern areas experienced a milder period, which didn't really extend to northern England to the same extent. That prompted a bit of a thaw further south, and has led to the sense that the December spell was actually in two parts.

Further west, there was little/no snow in that first phase north, so even where the temp crept up a little (the 10th and 11th in Manc reached 7c), there wasn't that visual prompt (thawing snow) of a milder spell, so there wasn't the same sense of there being two distinct spells. Further north/north-east, and certainly for higher areas under a blanket of snow, there wasn't much thawing at all.

The cold returned - from the north - and then the fairly widespread snow on that 17th/18th/19th Dec weekend.

To me, it felt like one long cold period, albeit with a very brief less-cold couple of days, with a festive cherry of deep snow a week before Xmas that stayed on the ground until the 27th/28th.

But for someone in the south who had early snow that melted, followed by a milder *few-to-several* days, before a return to cold (and the subsequent snow was more localised), I can understand viewing it as two distinct spells

 

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nd has led to the sense that the December spell was actually in two parts.
...
But for someone in the south who had early snow that melted, followed by a milder *few-to-several* days, before a return to cold (and the subsequent snow was more localised), I can understand viewing it as two distinct spells
 

Taken by itself, even here it wasn't actually too bad. It was more the way everyone else was going on about how wonderful it was, all the news reports etc - made it look like we down here just ended up with scraps.

Put it another way, I'd take it again in a heartbeat if I could, seeing the ground covered in snow - not just a bit of slush on the grass only, as we had today - is a wonderful thing. Sadly it's something which isn't seen most years, and indeed it's now 3 years since the last time snow settled on the pavements and roads here. (Before that was 2018, and before that 2013 - so maybe twice a decade these days).

As for 2010, it snowed on the 30th November, 6cm or so, eventually ending up at 18cm, briefly; my notes record 60 hours of snowfall.
It then rained on the 4th December and melted it all - part one was over.

There was then nothing for two more weeks, but on the 18th it snowed again, with 8cm falling in the afternoon. It was topped up over the next couple of days, then overnight on the 20th the dewpoint rose above freezing, setting the thaw in motion. It then chucked it down with rain on the 23rd and that was the end of it... a total of 7 days of decent snow on the ground.

Again, nice in terms of 21st century snow, but only two of those seven days were ice days, so the drip-drip-drip was ever-present.

As with today, I couldn't help but think how much better it'd have been if the 1 or 1.5 degrees of warming since the 80s was removed!
 

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Taken by itself, even here it wasn't actually too bad. It was more the way everyone else was going on about how wonderful it was, all the news reports etc - made it look like we down here just ended up with scraps.

Put it another way, I'd take it again in a heartbeat if I could, seeing the ground covered in snow - not just a bit of slush on the grass only, as we had today - is a wonderful thing. Sadly it's something which isn't seen most years, and indeed it's now 3 years since the last time snow settled on the pavements and roads here. (Before that was 2018, and before that 2013 - so maybe twice a decade these days).

As for 2010, it snowed on the 30th November, 6cm or so, eventually ending up at 18cm, briefly; my notes record 60 hours of snowfall.
It then rained on the 4th December and melted it all - part one was over.

There was then nothing for two more weeks, but on the 18th it snowed again, with 8cm falling in the afternoon. It was topped up over the next couple of days, then overnight on the 20th the dewpoint rose above freezing, setting the thaw in motion. It then chucked it down with rain on the 23rd and that was the end of it... a total of 7 days of decent snow on the ground.

Again, nice in terms of 21st century snow, but only two of those seven days were ice days, so the drip-drip-drip was ever-present.

As with today, I couldn't help but think how much better it'd have been if the 1 or 1.5 degrees of warming since the 80s was removed!
 

I had your reports of the period in my mind when I was posting!

Here, it was bone dry until the evening of the 17th. A few times the models would tease with snow forecasts - a couple even got to 24-48 hours away before the front/feature would disappear from the charts. We had some amazing rime frosts and a few nights of freezing fog leading to the effect of diamond dust hanging in the air. But no snow.

By the day of the 17th, I'd have been happy with a 1cm dusting to make everywhere festive. I was driving home from work (Manchester), travelling east-west, and the snow was forecast to be moving eastwards from the west, so I was driving into it. I saw my first flake about 8 miles east of home and within a couple of minutes, the air was thick with encouragingly big snowflakes (unusual for such a low temp). By the time it stopped around 10pm, the snow was 16cm level. Even Manchester city centre had a deep fall. As you moved slightly north from MBY, it got deeper - only say 6-7 miles north, with no more altitude - it was easily 20cm.

Felt like all the previous 3 weeks of having to be patient whilst seemingly the rest of the UK had had good snow, was worth it 😀

 

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It hit me on Saturday how much later the sun is setting from even just a month ago 😪

I love the dark nights of December and early Jan. Much prefer cold and snow to over this period, too. 

 

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It hit me on Saturday how much later the sun is setting from even just a month ago 😪

I love the dark nights of December and early Jan. Much prefer cold and snow to over this period, too. 

 

Same. I think I have the opposite of 'Sads'. I find the rapidly lengthening daylight hours at this time of year very depressing. Yet, the peak daylight hours during the mid summer period don't bother me as much. I suppose that is down to the fact that whole spectical looks much less drab than it does at this time of year. 

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Same. I think I have the opposite of 'Sads'. I find the rapidly lengthening daylight hours at this time of year very depressing. Yet, the peak daylight hours during the mid summer period don't bother me as much. I suppose that is down to the fact that whole spectical looks much less drab than it does at this time of year. 

On this score, I seem to be the same as you.

I hate the progression to lighter nights through the second half of winter and early spring. But, once we're into late spring and summer, I really love the light nights and feel similarly (but much less so) down when the night start to draw in during August and it's dark by 9pm. 

Funnily enough, though, once we get into September, I full-on love the nights getting earlier and earlier as a countdown to winter.

Totally irrelevant, but I think spring is by a million miles my least favourite season.

 

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Same. I think I have the opposite of 'Sads'. 

You don't really (the clue is in not minding summer), but I do - I detest summer and those long daylight hours it brings. Makes me feel gloomy just thinking of it, TBH. The reason is it means all the rubbish that you get in summer: people making a racket (kids yelling, music, mowing the lawn at 9PM, car radios, you name it), whiffy barbecues, the oppressive heat indoors, into the mid 30s with ease, which can only be moderated somewhat by using a portable air-con that both makes a racket and costs a fortune to run... then of course it's light when I go to bed and light when I get up too, meaning sleep isn't as deep anyway (even blackout curtains don't seem to fully darken the room).

Hate it.

This time of year, on the other hand, is lovely: storms aside, it's nice and quiet of an evening, it feels nice and cosy both in the morning and the evening, and there's seldom any trouble getting to sleep as it's pitch black. Yes, heating the place costs a chunk of money, but at least the central heating doesn't go DRRR-DRRR-DRRR all night long! 😁

Still, I guess there's one small benefit to summer - it makes me appreciate the other seasons all the more!

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You don't really (the clue is in not minding summer), but I do - I detest summer and those long daylight hours it brings. Makes me feel gloomy just thinking of it, TBH. The reason is it means all the rubbish that you get in summer: people making a racket (kids yelling, music, mowing the lawn at 9PM, car radios, you name it), whiffy barbecues, the oppressive heat indoors, into the mid 30s with ease, which can only be moderated somewhat by using a portable air-con that both makes a racket and costs a fortune to run... then of course it's light when I go to bed and light when I get up too, meaning sleep isn't as deep anyway (even blackout curtains don't seem to fully darken the room).

Hate it.

This time of year, on the other hand, is lovely: storms aside, it's nice and quiet of an evening, it feels nice and cosy both in the morning and the evening, and there's seldom any trouble getting to sleep as it's pitch black. Yes, heating the place costs a chunk of money, but at least the central heating doesn't go DRRR-DRRR-DRRR all night long! 😁

Still, I guess there's one small benefit to summer - it makes me appreciate the other seasons all the more!

I understand more than you think! Hate the heat and humidity of summer myself, but the greenery and lushness of summer is something I don't mind at all. Summer daylight hours do grate after a while, but the long, lingering and moody twilights of summer are always worth the wait. 

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It hit me on Saturday how much later the sun is setting from even just a month ago 😪

I love the dark nights of December and early Jan. Much prefer cold and snow to over this period, too. 

 

I am relishing the prospect of longer days returning. From my perspective there's zero point of our short winter days without a proper winter climate to go with them. It's all the downsides of living at a high latitude with absolutely none of the upsides. 

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I hate the “in between bits” of the weather. The coolish, wet and windy unusable weather in any season. I’d rather have crisp frosty winter’s days or even better snowy ones but failing that (and not really likely at this time of the year), dry warm and sunny. Unlike others I love the “longer” days with that extra time to be out and about in daylight.

Winter is fine if it’s wintry. If it’s just grey, mild and wet it’s frankly a bit depressing. In the true spirit of the title of the thread I will hold on to the memories of last week in the absence of imminent wintry weather or indeed spring warmth. I did however spot a snowdrop in the garden this morning so the season is progressing!

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Interesting in depth study of extreme conditions through the winters of 1976/77 and 77/78 in the US

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Interesting in depth study of extreme conditions through the winters of 1976/77 and 77/78 in the US

They were pretty phenomenal in Northern Germany too. I have a great recollection of an overnight snow storm in the early February of 78 which was so bad that we didn't have school for almost a month as the snow was piled so high and kept on coming down, we were walking over buried cars and I recall the thunder snow vividly, as it was so loud in the night that it woke me up and my mum telling me to stay away from the window because of the lightning. It seemed to go on for hours, proper blizzard conditions. I thought it was very exciting and have loved a good storm ever since be it snow or otherwise.

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That's dream stuff, that is

😮

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