I'm in my mid 60s . I can recall many mild damp christmases in the 70s and 80s  .Despite what some may think white christmases for most  have always been the exception .  

I don't think anyone's suffering from any delusions in that respect!

Doesn't stop many people yearning for the nirvana of a white Xmas, though. And, when the majority of the models have shown, over the past couple of weeks, a very plausible scenario that would likely bring snow to a very large proportion of the country over that 24th/25th/26th time period, people are going to get excited.

 

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I don't think anyone's suffering from any delusions in that respect!

Doesn't stop many people yearning for the nirvana of a white Xmas, though. And, when the majority of the models have shown, over the past couple of weeks, a very plausible scenario that would likely bring snow to a very large proportion of the country over that 24th/25th/26th time period, people are going to get excited.

 

No I'm sure not on here  but i think more generqlly people think that Christmas should be cold and snowy and that's how they think  it used to be but in the last  century maybe 6 or so proper white Christmases where snow has fallen and settled for a period .   Different of course prior to that . Yes would be great to see a proper one again ! 

No I'm sure not on here  but i think more generqlly people think that Christmas should be cold and snowy and that's how they think  it used to be but in the last  century maybe 6 or so proper white Christmases where snow has fallen and settled for a period .   Different of course prior to that . Yes would be great to see a proper one again ! 

There have been six white Christmases [MetO 'one snowflake' definition] recorded in the capital since 1960. But, if you consider what most people perceive to be a white Christmas, a widespread covering of snow on the ground, that's only happened four times in the UK [since 1960] - in 1981, 1995, 2009 and 2010.
https://www.mylondon.news/weather/last-time-london-saw-white-25778347 

[Assuming they know what they're talking about]

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There have been six white Christmases [MetO 'one snowflake' definition] recorded in the capital since 1960. But, if you consider what most people perceive to be a white Christmas, a widespread covering of snow on the ground, that's only happened four times in the UK [since 1960] - in 1981, 1995, 2009 and 2010.
https://www.mylondon.news/weather/last-time-london-saw-white-25778347 

[Assuming they know what they're talking about]

I.think those stats are for London, the equivalent for England as a whole is much higher (and higher again Scotland) - for populated low altitude sites. 

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. Yes would be great to see a proper one again ! 

Would be good to see one full stop, but I'll probably be dead by the time that happens. 1970 was the last "snow falling and settling" Christmas for millions down here in the SE. It won't be happening this year either, so maybe next year? I wouldn't count on it though!

As for the models, tonight's GEM is interesting, by day 10 the Atlantic is all but dead and cold air - deep cold air - is moving south over Scotland, with a high over Iceland. There still manages to be a high over Iberia, though, and until that dies down it'll be like pulling teeth to get lasting cold weather!

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Would be good to see one full stop, but I'll probably be dead by the time that happens. 1970 was the last "snow falling and settling" Christmas for millions down here in the SE. It won't be happening this year either, so maybe next year? I wouldn't count on it though!

As for the models, tonight's GEM is interesting, by day 10 the Atlantic is all but dead and cold air - deep cold air - is moving south over Scotland, with a high over Iceland. There still manages to be a high over Iberia, though, and until that dies down it'll be like pulling teeth to get lasting cold weather!

We need a Laki to erupt in spring, then bets are off for Xmas 24!!

(just got to contend with global mass crop failures and thousands of deaths due to SO2 poisoning..)
 

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Facts and figures for Christmas weather

When was the deepest snow on Christmas day?
The deepest lying snow on Christmas day was recorded back in 1981 when Kindrogan, Perthshire recorded 47 cm.
Snow depth (cm)CountryDeepest snow on Christmas Day England 43cm at Buxton, Derbyshire and Malham Tarn, N. Yorkshire in 1981 and 2009
 Northern Ireland 17cm at Hillsborough, Down in 2010
 Scotland 47cm at Kindrogan, Perthshire in 1981
 Wales 45cm at Cae Poeth, Gwynedd in 2010

When was the warmest Christmas day?
The warmest temperature recorded on Christmas day in the UK is 15.6 °C recorded in Killerton, Devon in 1920.
Max temperature (°C)CountryWarmest Christmas Day England 15.6 °C at Killerton, Devon in 1920
 Northern Ireland 14.8 °C at Belfast Newforge in 2016
 Scotland 15.1 °C at Dyce, Aberdeenshire in 2011 and 2016 and Urquhart, Ross & Cromarty in 2016
 Wales 15.2 °C at Hawarden, Clywd in 2015

When was the wettest Christmas Day?
The wettest Christmas day in the UK was in 2015 when 165.4 mm of rain fell in Capel Curig ,Gwynedd.
Rainfall (mm)CountryWettest Christmas Day England 103mm at Ennerdale, Cumbria in 2003
 Northern Ireland 82.5mm at Trassey, Down in 2021
 Scotland 70.5mm at Achnagart, Ross & Cromarty in 2011
 Wales 165.4mm at Capel Curig, Gwynedd in 2015

When was the windiest Christmas day?
The windiest Christmas day recorded was at Sella Ness in Shetland in 2011 when gusts up to 101 mph were recorded.
Max wind gust (mph)CountryWindiest Christmas Day England 93mph at the Needles, Isle of Wight in 1997
 Northern Ireland 81mph at Killough, Down in 1990
 Scotland 101mph at Sella Ness in Shetland in 2011
 Wales 78mph at Aberporth, Dyfed in 1990

When was the coldest Christmas day?
Gainford in Durham holds the record for the coldest Christmas day recording -18.3 °C in 1878.
Minimum temperature (°C)CountryColdest Christmas Day England -18.3°C at Gainford, Durham in 1878
 Northern Ireland -17.5°C at Katesbridge, Down in 2010
 Scotland -18.2°C at Altnaharra, Sutherland in 2010
 Wales -16.5°C at Llysdinum, Powys in 2010
When was the sunniest Christmas day?

The most amount of sunshine recorded on Christmas day is 7.5 hours, recorded in Penzance, Cornwall and Aberporth, Dyfed in 1944, Faversham, Kent in 1979 and Camborne, Cornwall in 2010.
Sunshine hoursCountrySunniest Christmas Day England 7.5hrs at Penzance, Cornwall in 1944 and Faversham, Kent in 1979 and Camborne, Cornwall in 2010
 Northern Ireland 6.7hrs at Aldergrove, Antrim in 2000 and Ballywatticock, Down in 2010
 Scotland 6.9hrs at West Freugh, Wigtownshire in 1961
 Wales 7.5hrs at Aberporth, Dyfed in 1944
Source . Met Office.

We need a Laki to erupt in spring, then bets are off for Xmas 24!!

(just got to contend with global mass crop failures and thousands of deaths due to SO2 poisoning..)
 

Or Yellowstone, or the Ukraine war to go nuclear.  

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In terms of snow, the only "true" white Christmas I have seen in my 26-year life (and I consider a true white Christmas as one where snow both falls and accumulates on Christmas Day) is 2004. That day seen a Pm NW'ly wind bring snow to much of North West England, if I remember correctly.

Other partial white Christmases (where snow only falls or lies, not both) are of course 2009 and 2010 (lay, but both days were calm and bright) and 2020 (a snow shower in the afternoon). Boxing Day 2014 seen snow in the evening, though it didn't really accumulate in East Manchester, compared to further west. It would have been interesting if that spell had been brought forward by 24 hours though.

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In terms of snow, the only "true" white Christmas I have seen in my 26-year life (and I consider a true white Christmas as one where snow both falls and accumulates on Christmas Day) is 2004. That day seen a Pm NW'ly wind bring snow to much of North West England, if I remember correctly.

Other partial white Christmases (where snow only falls or lies, not both) are of course 2009 and 2010 (lay, but both days were calm and bright) and 2020 (a snow shower in the afternoon). Boxing Day 2014 seen snow in the evening, though it didn't really accumulate in East Manchester, compared to further west. It would have been interesting if that spell had been brought forward by 24 hours though.

Spot on, Bolty 👍

Matches my recollection.

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Facts and figures for Christmas weather

When was the deepest snow on Christmas day?
The deepest lying snow on Christmas day was recorded back in 1981 when Kindrogan, Perthshire recorded 47 cm.
Snow depth (cm)CountryDeepest snow on Christmas Day England 43cm at Buxton, Derbyshire and Malham Tarn, N. Yorkshire in 1981 and 2009
 Northern Ireland 17cm at Hillsborough, Down in 2010
 Scotland 47cm at Kindrogan, Perthshire in 1981
 Wales 45cm at Cae Poeth, Gwynedd in 2010

When was the warmest Christmas day?
The warmest temperature recorded on Christmas day in the UK is 15.6 °C recorded in Killerton, Devon in 1920.
Max temperature (°C)CountryWarmest Christmas Day England 15.6 °C at Killerton, Devon in 1920
 Northern Ireland 14.8 °C at Belfast Newforge in 2016
 Scotland 15.1 °C at Dyce, Aberdeenshire in 2011 and 2016 and Urquhart, Ross & Cromarty in 2016
 Wales 15.2 °C at Hawarden, Clywd in 2015

When was the wettest Christmas Day?
The wettest Christmas day in the UK was in 2015 when 165.4 mm of rain fell in Capel Curig ,Gwynedd.
Rainfall (mm)CountryWettest Christmas Day England 103mm at Ennerdale, Cumbria in 2003
 Northern Ireland 82.5mm at Trassey, Down in 2021
 Scotland 70.5mm at Achnagart, Ross & Cromarty in 2011
 Wales 165.4mm at Capel Curig, Gwynedd in 2015

When was the windiest Christmas day?
The windiest Christmas day recorded was at Sella Ness in Shetland in 2011 when gusts up to 101 mph were recorded.
Max wind gust (mph)CountryWindiest Christmas Day England 93mph at the Needles, Isle of Wight in 1997
 Northern Ireland 81mph at Killough, Down in 1990
 Scotland 101mph at Sella Ness in Shetland in 2011
 Wales 78mph at Aberporth, Dyfed in 1990

When was the coldest Christmas day?
Gainford in Durham holds the record for the coldest Christmas day recording -18.3 °C in 1878.
Minimum temperature (°C)CountryColdest Christmas Day England -18.3°C at Gainford, Durham in 1878
 Northern Ireland -17.5°C at Katesbridge, Down in 2010
 Scotland -18.2°C at Altnaharra, Sutherland in 2010
 Wales -16.5°C at Llysdinum, Powys in 2010
When was the sunniest Christmas day?

The most amount of sunshine recorded on Christmas day is 7.5 hours, recorded in Penzance, Cornwall and Aberporth, Dyfed in 1944, Faversham, Kent in 1979 and Camborne, Cornwall in 2010.
Sunshine hoursCountrySunniest Christmas Day England 7.5hrs at Penzance, Cornwall in 1944 and Faversham, Kent in 1979 and Camborne, Cornwall in 2010
 Northern Ireland 6.7hrs at Aldergrove, Antrim in 2000 and Ballywatticock, Down in 2010
 Scotland 6.9hrs at West Freugh, Wigtownshire in 1961
 Wales 7.5hrs at Aberporth, Dyfed in 1944
Source . Met Office.

👍

Excellent stats, there, Bledur!

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It looks increasingly like this Christmas will join the stormy category. Notable years with these include 1997 (the famous Christmas Eve storm), 1998 (the Boxing Day storm), 2013 (the deep near-record low early Christmas Eve, then another storm on Boxing Day) and 2015 (Storm Eva early Christmas Eve and then the total washout on Boxing Day).

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Looking at the 12z output so far I wouldn’t entirely rule out a White Christmas in a few places. The GFS 12z GFS op comes agonisingly close here: 



I have intentionally posted this in here so as not to detract from the overall model output discussion.

Today has been a good deal colder here than I was expecting, although it is continuing to warm up. Currently it is 4.5°C with a covering of snow.

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I sometimes struggle with the American sense of humour, but am in their debt for two major contributions to Christmas culture:
1.  I'm Dreaming of a Wide Isthmus.
and
2. God rest ye, Gerry Mendelbaum.
😁
Any other offerings?

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Looking at the 12z output so far I wouldn’t entirely rule out a White Christmas in a few places. The GFS 12z GFS op comes agonisingly close here:

If it's winter you're after, it's up there in NE Scotland! An amazing "real time" temperature chart from xcweather an hour ago, with all of England, Wales, Northern Ireland and a good chunk of Scotland all in the 9-12C shading...

https://ukwct.org.uk/weather/sat.jpg 

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If it's winter you're after, it's up there in NE Scotland! An amazing "real time" temperature chart from xcweather an hour ago, with all of England, Wales, Northern Ireland and a good chunk of Scotland all in the 9-12C shading...

https://ukwct.org.uk/weather/sat.jpg 

IMAGE. Members enable at bottom of page

Yes, it’s 3.4°C here currently after an earlier “high” of 4.5°C. I would expect it to warm up soon but we have a covering of snow just now.

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A 9 near Golspie Sutherland earlier today

Remember Christmas 1981… I asked for a new sledge for Christmas and actually got to use it. I lived at the time 10 miles down the road from Buxton.

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2. God rest ye, Gerry Mendelbaum.

I remember a WW2-themed joke with the punchline "God Rest Ye Gerry Mentlemen" but have no idea of the joke that preceded it 😣

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I remember a WW2-themed joke with the punchline "God Rest Ye Gerry Mentlemen" but have no idea of the joke that preceded it 😣

I think it was a throwaway line from Bob Newhart... or possibly Alan Sherman... Ah - try this... Sherman.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrTFVRm10dk 

 

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