The Weather Outlook

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fairweather
27 December 2024 20:33:36
I only look in here every 36 hours or so at this time of year. How interesting that is as I read through the missed posts! Of course it is pretty much "same old" for the content of the last ten years when a decent cold spell is looming with the usual predictable comments. However when I actually looked at the latest ensembles which I most usually do in these scenarios I had been expecting a three day consistent drop to about -5C 850 hPa's followed by a consistent rise to about 0C. So I was pleasantly surprised to see drops to -7C and a rather large tight cluster staying around there for most of the rest of the chart on both GFS and ECM. (London). So I hope when I look again later tomorrow I will be pleasantly surprised to see some of that gain traction. 😀
S.Essex, 42m ASL
UncleAlbert
27 December 2024 20:49:29

Obviously it hasn't happened yet but if we get a significant cold spell. It's a big win for the robots. Sensational 12s all round tonight. 

 

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

Yes, the sudden shift in the major models is quite notable and surely must be regarded as a signal of some strength, even at this early stage.  Of particular interest, as mentioned, is the AIFS which was picking this up last night.  So if things do indeed pan out along the lines of the current Ops, will we remember this as the time that AI really came of age as a forecasting tool?

Jiries
27 December 2024 21:22:57

My main concern is the storm potential on NYD.  I'd sacrifice snow to escape a major storm.  

UKMO looks to be fly in the ointment for cold weather fans. Still to get the big 3 in agreement at the same time. 

The Beast from the East wrote:

My interest is to see the back of this rainy dull HP out of the way as it been so dull and wet than the storm can produce,  Dry, then rain then dry when storm passed but HP no it 24/7 constant rain and dullness.  Some saying about snow over the Midlands in the New Year day so will see if this happen.  Once again just want the HP out for good.

Jiries
27 December 2024 21:30:00

I only look in here every 36 hours or so at this time of year. How interesting that is as I read through the missed posts! Of course it is pretty much "same old" for the content of the last ten years when a decent cold spell is looming with the usual predictable comments. However when I actually looked at the latest ensembles which I most usually do in these scenarios I had been expecting a three day consistent drop to about -5C 850 hPa's followed by a consistent rise to about 0C. So I was pleasantly surprised to see drops to -7C and a rather large tight cluster staying around there for most of the rest of the chart on both GFS and ECM. (London). So I hope when I look again later tomorrow I will be pleasantly surprised to see some of that gain traction. 😀

Originally Posted by: fairweather 

Seen those ensembles for London and Nuneaton, both have precips high spikes same time at low 850's so we should be seeing snowfall from here to London area.  Not bone dry cold setup.

Snow Hoper
27 December 2024 22:18:32
Looks like the 18z is bringing the snow back to the southern half of the country around 114hrs.
Going to war over religion is like killing each other to see who has the better imaginary friend.

Home : Mid Suffolk.

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Brian Gaze
27 December 2024 22:48:16
The GFS 18Z produces a big snow event in central areas on 01/01 to 02/01.  

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Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

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fairweather
27 December 2024 23:22:19
I'd like to see the ground cool down a bit. We haven't and probably won't have a single air frost for the whole of December. With just 26 hours of sunshine it seems to have been a constant 6-10C day and night!
S.Essex, 42m ASL
squish
27 December 2024 23:40:46
18z control a real cracker ! Op less so…..
D.E.W on Dartmoor. 300m asl
tallyho_83
28 December 2024 00:06:03

The GFS 18Z produces a big snow event in central areas on 01/01 to 02/01.  

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Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

I saw that. I guess this year for the first time in many years we won't hear the "Darren Bett's catchphrase of "at least it will be mild" or "new year...old weather!"

The control run is an absolute cracker. Very indicative of a - NAO and -AO. It also shows a significant SW over the pole again at the end of the run. Interesting times. Tbh I would be delighted to see the back of this borefest of endless doom n gloomy and misty, drizzly, muggy and murky weather.

Looks like things could get Interesting by the new year. Whilst the models have flipped they have basically showed a different variation of the same pattern and the positioning of the high is fundamental because only yesterday it was a toppler and sinked south but the 18z Op has some good agreement and support from control and the ECM shows cold lasti until 8th with temps hovering around freezing or below all day on 6th January. Still plenty of time for it to flip back to mild but it's looking likely we will see a cold spell albeit brief but ...we shall see? At best we will see a colder spell by the New year...but how long for? Hmm..time will tell.


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

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The Beast from the East
28 December 2024 01:31:46

I'd like to see the ground cool down a bit. We haven't and probably won't have a single air frost for the whole of December. With just 26 hours of sunshine it seems to have been a constant 6-10C day and night!

Originally Posted by: fairweather 

It’s been a drag hasn’t it. But I don’t mind as long as we can Avoid damaging winds 


Purley, Surrey, 70m ASL

"We have some alternative facts for you"

Kelly-Ann Conway - former special adviser to the President

Zubzero
28 December 2024 03:42:02
The majority of the ENS restrict snowfall to parts of Scotland and northen England. 

As Q has pointed out some parts of Scotland could get a foot or more. And of course Sheffield will get a meter 😉. As ever time will tell alot depends on how the low around 144 behaves and develops. 

CField
28 December 2024 05:32:14
Very interesting model watching this morning...Gfs going more in the freezer camp, GEM cold with the risk (only a risk) of the South getting major snow event...ICON lot flatter pattern with risk of zonality returning for a time at least.....something for everyone there.. see what ECM and AIFS show later
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Hastings East Sussex

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Jiries
28 December 2024 06:11:24
Perhaps Darren can make those graph for 00z as I see around 7 to 8 members going for -10 to -13C uppers for Nuneaton in early Jan.  Interesting non HP weather coming up. 

Retron
28 December 2024 06:51:49

Perhaps Darren can make those graph for 00z as I see around 7 to 8 members going for -10 to -13C uppers for Nuneaton in early Jan.  Interesting non HP weather coming up. 

Originally Posted by: Jiries 

Well, to be fair most of the criteria for an "ensemble watch" have been met - there are consistently members showing -10 and there are some ice days mixed in. The third criteria is whether I think there's a reasonable chance of it happening... I've refrained over Christmas as I just don't trust the modelling. That said, as it's been a long time and we're still in the festive period I'll start one going. I've much lower confidence in it coming to anything down here though, but you never know...

As a reminder, these are based on the Meteociel ensemble charts for London, and show how many members of each suite bring -10 or lower 850s during the 384-hour period. Extra cold runs (-15) will be highlighted in blue on the chart. I'll keep this up for a week or so, by which time we'll know one way or another whether the snowy January drought is going to be broken down here.

https://ukwct.org.uk/weather/ens.png 

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Leysdown, north Kent
doctormog
28 December 2024 06:57:47
For what it’s worth 31 ensemble members dip below -10°C at t850hPa here in Aberdeen on the 00z GEFS ensembke suite (with two below -15°C). 

More generally there is still a lot of variability in the output but less so than yesterday and there is clearer clustering around the cold outcomes as we move into the new year. The theme in the medium term seems to be cold but more settled with high pressure in the Iceland region, something that will feel “seasonal”. 

This is the GEFS ensemble mean at day 10:

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSAVGEU00_240_1.png 


Ally Pally Snowman
28 December 2024 06:58:03
Cold spell definitely still on this morning.  But for imby perspective I miss out on snow as the New Year's Day low is to far north. Midlands, N England do well. N Scotland its absolute dreamland insane snow amounts. 

But I need that New Year's Day low further south please. 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Quantum
28 December 2024 08:18:13

Cold spell definitely still on this morning.  But for imby perspective I miss out on snow as the New Year's Day low is to far north. Midlands, N England do well. N Scotland its absolute dreamland insane snow amounts. 

But I need that New Year's Day low further south please. 

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

I'd actually be worried. I think there is a very real risk the the extreme north of the mainland and the northern isles (mostly Orkney/Lewis) are at genuine risk of being cut off. These places don't have good infrastructure. And I know they are used to dealing with large amounts of snow but surely not this much over such a short period. It might not be a bad idea for people that live in that top left corner to have some supplies in case the worst case scenario plays out (again not saying it will, the models exaggerate snow amounts; even so though).


25/26 (850hpa temp) 11 days snow/sleet falling

18/11 (-4) 19/11 (-6) 20/11 (-6) 01/01 (-7) 04/01 (-10) 10/01 (-7) 11/01 (-3) 30/01 (-1) 13/02 (-6) 15/02 (-4) 18/02 (-6)

24/25 10d

18/11 (-6) 19/11 (-6) 23/11 (-2) 22/12 (-5) 04/01 (-5) 05/01 (0)14/02 (0) 15/02 (0)12/03 (-6) 13/03 (-6)

23/24 8d

29/11 (-6) 30/11 (-6) 02/12 (-5) 03/12 (-5) 04/12 (-3) 16/01 (-3) 18/01 (-8)08/02 (-5)

22/23 7d

18/12 (-1)06/03 (-6) 08/03 (-8) 09/03 (-6) 10/03 (-8) 11/03 (-5) 14/03 (-6)

21/22 12d

DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
28 December 2024 08:26:22
WX temps; now you see it, now you don't! For week 1, W Europe is slightly below norm and E Europe rather more above (though not as much as it was). For week 2, the chart for the 26th showed freezing weather had spread to all of W Europe; for the 27th, the freeze had retreated to Russia; today it's back across W Europe including mountain areas in Britain, marginally milder near coasts and some very cold air appearing near Finland. (In yesterday's 18z the freezing area was even more extensive). Pptn for Atlantic coasts in week 1, regressing back to mid Atlantic in week 2 with most of Europe rather dry though far SE Europe including Turkey turns wet. Very variable, keep watching!

GFS Op 00z - HP hanging on across N France 1030mb for a couple of days before LPs start to run across Britain bringing N-lies in their wake; 1000mb N Sea  Mon 30th, 990mb Scotland Tue 31st, 985mb E Anglia Thu 2nd (but not the monster storm shown yesterday). These LPs run across to Scandinavia and reinforce the large semi-permanent LP there*, then from Sat 3rd Britain is a 'battleground' between HP west of Ireland and LP east of Denmark - could flip either way but always likely colder for East Coast. Then HP moves in as a ridge 1030mb covering Britain from Wed 8th, toppling as deep LP 950mb south of Iceland moves slowly E-wards.

* Where, oh where, is the Scandi High we used to know and love? 

ECM - Like GFS but the LPs Mon 30th/Tue 31st don't amount to anything much, just a general decrease in pressure; that on Thu 2nd is a little further north.

GEM - like ECM, nothing much at first but  LP 995mb English Channel Thu 2nd and then a contrast as HP never moves in from the Atlantic and Britain remains under weak N-lies through to Mon 6th.

GEFS - Heavy pptn Wed 1st (and Fri 3rd in north) accompanied by a sharp drop in temp and the major cluster of ens members staying 5-7C below norm to Wed 8th but some others for England, incl control at first, just as far above, A few dry days but quite pptn in most runs from Mon 5th, heavy in S, less in N. Temps after Wed 8th recover slightly at the expense of disagreement between ens members. Chances of snow from 1/3 in far south to near-certainty in far north.


War is God's way of teaching Americans geography - Ambrose Bierce

Chichester 12m asl

marting
28 December 2024 08:29:44
A decent set of meteogram this morning from the ECM. A good consistent set holding the cold out to the 11th. https://charts.ecmwf.int/products/opencharts_meteogram?base_time=202412280000&epsgram=classical_15d_with_climate&lat=53.4106&lon=-2.97794&station_name=Liverpool

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Martin

Greasby, Wirral.

BJBlake
28 December 2024 08:35:41

I'd actually be worried. I think there is a very real risk the the extreme north of the mainland and the northern isles (mostly Orkney/Lewis) are at genuine risk of being cut off. These places don't have good infrastructure. And I know they are used to dealing with large amounts of snow but surely not this much over such a short period. It might not be a bad idea for people that live in that top left corner to have some supplies in case the worst case scenario plays out (again not saying it will, the models exaggerate snow amounts; even so though).

Originally Posted by: Quantum 

The Spar in Durness was well stocked - when I was there earlier this year, and walkable from most properties. The road from Kylescue to Durness gets pretty narrow half way up, with passing places. The edges are jagged and can shred your tyres (as happened to me) if you leave the lane outside of a passing place (mind you, I have these stupid low profile tyres you get fobbed off with these days). Mostly you can see cars coming in time, but when you get a nut-case on full throttle passing 3 spaces and catch you in between, you have to leave the road to let the nutter go, and that’s the danger point. Once you get to Durness, there isn’t much infrastructure unless you are a local with the knowledge. My car was recovered to Inverness - 3 hours drive away and I had to pay £200 to get a hire car delivered - and the RAC deal only delivers a replacement for 3 days to your home address (which was 700miles south)! I had to drive The hired car to Inverness to pick up my car, a week after the tyre blow. There are few trees and the alpine scenery extends to sea level. A major snow event would be spectacular up there, but you need a four wheel drive type vehicle.


Brecklands, South Norfolk 28m ASL
Quantum
28 December 2024 08:36:24
I wonder if that top left corner will act as a resevoir of cold air and bring the temps down for the rest of the UK in a northerly.


25/26 (850hpa temp) 11 days snow/sleet falling

18/11 (-4) 19/11 (-6) 20/11 (-6) 01/01 (-7) 04/01 (-10) 10/01 (-7) 11/01 (-3) 30/01 (-1) 13/02 (-6) 15/02 (-4) 18/02 (-6)

24/25 10d

18/11 (-6) 19/11 (-6) 23/11 (-2) 22/12 (-5) 04/01 (-5) 05/01 (0)14/02 (0) 15/02 (0)12/03 (-6) 13/03 (-6)

23/24 8d

29/11 (-6) 30/11 (-6) 02/12 (-5) 03/12 (-5) 04/12 (-3) 16/01 (-3) 18/01 (-8)08/02 (-5)

22/23 7d

18/12 (-1)06/03 (-6) 08/03 (-8) 09/03 (-6) 10/03 (-8) 11/03 (-5) 14/03 (-6)

21/22 12d

The Beast from the East
28 December 2024 10:01:56
latest GFS blows up the storm into something very nasty. 

https://modeles16.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2024122806/gfs-0-108.png?6 


Purley, Surrey, 70m ASL

"We have some alternative facts for you"

Kelly-Ann Conway - former special adviser to the President

Ally Pally Snowman
28 December 2024 10:04:16

latest GFS blows up the storm into something very nasty. 

https://modeles16.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2024122806/gfs-0-108.png?6 

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 

Even further north. Boo!


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
doctormog
28 December 2024 10:07:13
The word ‘blizzard’ tends to be overused, but that looks rather like one in parts of Scotland: 

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSOPUK06_114_1.png 

In isolation I would not read too much into the details at that range but the potential for something disruptive is there over the New Year period.


nsrobins
28 December 2024 10:24:16

The word ‘blizzard’ tends to be overused, but that looks rather like one in parts of Scotland: 

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSOPUK06_114_1.png 

In isolation I would not read too much into the details at that range but the potential for something disruptive is there over the New Year period.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 

Agreed. The attention over the next few days will focus on New Years Day and a potentially severe event for parts of the UK. Heavy snow possible (North) and an increasing risk of severe gales (NW) but at this range much to be resolved. On her way to the Pelennor, Eowyn might be visiting the UK with all the fury of a storm.


Neil

Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)

Stormchaser, Member TORRO

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