The Weather Outlook

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Jiries
Wednesday, June 5, 2024 5:33:51 AM

Greenland blocking back on the 12s. Wnak! 

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

This time of the year we usually look for settled, heatwaves, plumes and thunderstorms but sadly all about idiot Greenland high that really have to be compulsory effect uk with several degrees below average temps?  Cyprus having a heatwave so why not allowed for some warmth let alone average temps in here.

White Meadows
Wednesday, June 5, 2024 6:19:11 AM
Yep, we had an av. 14 degree max May, continuing with a 15 degree av. max June on the south coast. So far this summer only shaping up to be memorable for the wrong reasons. Ensembles looks like ground hog day til the end but at least the June monsoon looks to have occurred either early or possibly in July instead. That would really be the nail in the coffin. 

 

Ally Pally Snowman
Wednesday, June 5, 2024 6:32:39 AM

This time of the year we usually look for settled, heatwaves, plumes and thunderstorms but sadly all about idiot Greenland high that really have to be compulsory effect uk with several degrees below average temps?  Cyprus having a heatwave so why not allowed for some warmth let alone average temps in here.

Originally Posted by: Jiries 

As you say the heat is there and record breaking heat at that in southern Europe . But getting the right synoptics to pump it up to Blighty seems impossible atm. It's looking pretty dry at least in the South.

 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Ally Pally Snowman
Wednesday, June 5, 2024 6:45:10 AM
ECM is the best of a bad bunch this morning.  Mainly because it has less Greenland blocking,  the models are really struggling with how much HP will be over Greenland atm so anything past 120h highly suspect. 

 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
Wednesday, June 5, 2024 6:56:24 AM
WX temp charts are a disappointment this morning. The week 1 cold plunge from Iceland affecting mainly countries around the North Sea (i.e. including Britain) is still there, but temperatures fail to recover in W Europe in week 2. The warmth from the south 'pencilled in' yesterday does not materialise; there is only patchy warmth over France and it does not reach Britain, while the Baltic states regain their sweltering early summer. Rain in week 1 for Scotland and Norway, and in a band from C to E Europe, though dry-ish for England; these areas of rain persist into week 2.

GFS Op - LP near Faeroes slow to break up and move to Norway which it does by Mon 10th, in the meantime generating cool W/NW-lies for Britain. A 'blink-and-you've-missed-it' HP is rapidly followed by  a couple of shallow LPs from the Atlantic; 1005mb Scotland Wed 12th, 1005mb again Irish Sea Sat 15th. The latter slowly moves N-wards and a more convincing ridge of HP moves into W Britain from the SW from Wed 19th.

ECM - resembles GFS though the brief HP lasts two days rather than one. Noted that yesterday's 12z kept this HP going but this morning's 00z, like GFS, brings in an Atlantic LP for Sat 15th.

GEM - resembles GFS at first. The 'shallow LPs' appear as a more extensive (and cooler) trough from Iceland which slowly moves away to the NE. HP is nudging in by Sat 15th but remaining some distance west of Ireland, so still cool for most.

GEFS - Temps now down to cool and staying somewhat below norm everywhere until about Thu 13th with quite good agreement of ens members, then a greater spread but still not far from norm for the following week. Dry in the south for week 1, a little rain in the north; then a bit more rain everywhere with one or two runs suggesting heavy falls. Always driest in the SW.

 


War is God's way of teaching Americans geography - Ambrose Bierce

Chichester 12m asl

Ally Pally Snowman
Wednesday, June 5, 2024 7:10:58 AM
Just looking back at winter most of the time 850s were warmer than now. Upto 10c warmer at times. Gotta love the UK weather 🙃🙃🙃
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
David M Porter
Wednesday, June 5, 2024 8:52:09 AM

We just had the warmest Spring on record, and we are on the 3rd day of summer, hardly baltic. 

Originally Posted by: Zubzero 

I think much of the reason for the spring being as warm as it turned out to be was the amount of cloud cover for much of the time which stopped temperatures from falling too low at night at any time. I might be wrong, but I don't recall any daily maximum temperature records for the UK being broken at any point in March, April or May.

FWIW, much of the first half of April in my neck of the woods was baltic, as well as wet and miserable.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"A body of men holding themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody." – Thomas Paine

David M Porter
Wednesday, June 5, 2024 9:00:37 AM

Just looking back at winter most of the time 850s were warmer than now. Upto 10c warmer at times. Gotta love the UK weather 🙃🙃🙃

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

Only a guess, but maybe that has been something to do with the recent El Nino coming to an end?


Lenzie, Glasgow

"A body of men holding themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody." – Thomas Paine

GezM
  • GezM
  • Advanced Member
Wednesday, June 5, 2024 9:32:16 AM
Quite a downturn in fortunes this morning for warm weather fans. That Atlantic high ridges and then retrogresses right back and allows cooler and unsettled weather to push down from the north west.

Anything properly settled looks to be in the "jam tomorrow" range. Met Office long term forecast doesn't offer much comfort either.  


Living in St Albans, Herts (116m asl)

Working at Luton Airport, Beds (160m asl)

doctormog
Wednesday, June 5, 2024 9:58:30 AM

I think much of the reason for the spring being as warm as it turned out to be was the amount of cloud cover for much of the time which stopped temperatures from falling too low at night at any time. I might be wrong, but I don't recall any daily maximum temperature records for the UK being broken at any point in March, April or May.

FWIW, much of the first half of April in my neck of the woods was baltic, as well as wet and miserable.

Originally Posted by: David M Porter 

That is true to a certain extent, but the monthly summary maps show that the daily maxima were also above average for almost the entire UK (over 2.5⁰C above for much of Scotland). Not only that but these anomalies are compared with the milder 91-20 average and not the 61-90 dataset. I'm sure someone will no doubt say something that denies this just to be contrary but the data are readily available.


David M Porter
Wednesday, June 5, 2024 11:51:24 AM

That is true to a certain extent, but the monthly summary maps show that the daily maxima were also above average for almost the entire UK (over 2.5⁰C above for much of Scotland). Not only that but these anomalies are compared with the milder 91-20 average and not the 61-90 dataset. I'm sure someone will no doubt say something that denies this just to be contrary but the data are readily available.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 

Hi Michael 🙂

I think the persistence of weather and winds from warmer directions probably had a lot to do with it too. We're in the middle of a cool northwesterly spell at the moment; how many of those did we have at any point during March, April or May? Virtually none that I can recall. Last winter had very little, if any, spells of weather from any northerly directions either as far as I remember.

I was outside not long before typing this post, and I can promise you that it feels as cool here at the moment as it did at any time during the spring, or last winter for that matter.

 


Lenzie, Glasgow

"A body of men holding themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody." – Thomas Paine

cultman1
Wednesday, June 5, 2024 4:07:46 PM
Are there any signs after the weekend for things warming up next week ? Apparently high pressure is meant to be building in from the SW this weekend? 
White Meadows
Wednesday, June 5, 2024 10:34:57 PM

Are there any signs after the weekend for things warming up next week ? Apparently high pressure is meant to be building in from the SW this weekend? 

Originally Posted by: cultman1 

Nope ‘fraid not. Just a steady rise from 15 degrees to 17c daytime maxes on the south coast which will carry us past summer solstice to month end.

Latest ECM has gone from bad to dogs**t sandwich with a nasty low parked over the UK for next weekend. 

 

Retron
Thursday, June 6, 2024 4:58:33 AM

That is true to a certain extent, but the monthly summary maps show that the daily maxima were also above average for almost the entire UK (over 2.5⁰C above for much of Scotland). Not only that but these anomalies are compared with the milder 91-20 average and not the 61-90 dataset. I'm sure someone will no doubt say something that denies this just to be contrary but the data are readily available.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 

Spot on. As I've said before, the "UK is now in the Med" mindset has really grown over the past 20 years - you see it on here, you see it in the press, you see it on social media.

Heaven forbid we actually get a cold (91-20) summer, for once! They should come along every other year, or just under, on average, but every summer since 2015 has ended up above the 91-20 average.

No sign of that changing down here at least, with the models showing plenty of sunshine, with temperatures at or above average over the coming week... at least according to the new MetO output. The raw GFS has 15/16/16 here for today, tomorrow and Saturday, compared with 19/20/21 for the MetO.

I don't know whether it applies elsewhere in the UK, but for the past month or so the GFS has been absolutely atrocious... it's always underestimated maxima by a degree or two in summer, generally, but it's plumbing new depths at the moment. The other day was a good example: GFS had 18, MetO 22, it ended up as 22.3. A model that's consistently 3 or more degrees out really isn't very good.

 


Leysdown, north Kent
White Meadows
Thursday, June 6, 2024 5:56:47 AM
Yep, no surprise that overall June-July-August temperatures are forecast to be warmer than the 1991-2020 long-term average. As highlighted already, extensive insulating cloud cover has kept cold nights at bay for months now. This masks the fact we’ve seriously been lacking daytime highs. This years max still only 25c earlier in May, which is pretty astonishing in comparison to the new pseudo ‘Mediterranean’ furnace we’re being led to believe. 

Meanwhile, an emerging picture this morning for a potential northerly influence after mid month with a return to wet conditions. 

doctormog
Thursday, June 6, 2024 6:01:56 AM

Yep, no surprise that overall June-July-August temperatures are forecast to be warmer than the 1991-2020 long-term average. As highlighted already, extensive insulating cloud cover has kept cold nights at bay for months now. This masks the fact we’ve seriously been lacking daytime highs. This years max still only 25c earlier in May, which is pretty astonishing in comparison to the new pseudo ‘Mediterranean’ furnace we’re being led to believe. 

Meanwhile, an emerging picture this morning for a potential northerly influence after mid month with a return to wet conditions. 

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 

A couple of points about May, the daytime maxima were also above average and the overall maximum was 27.5°C on the 12th in Surrey. It is on the cool side at the moment and for the coming days for many people but it is also just the very start of the summer.

I know it doesn’t work like this, but I would rather have cooler showery weather at the very beginning of summer if it meant things were warmer and more settled in the heart of the summer period.


Chunky Pea
Thursday, June 6, 2024 6:23:37 AM

. The raw GFS has 15/16/16 here for today, tomorrow and Saturday, compared with 19/20/21 for the MetO.

I don't know whether it applies elsewhere in the UK, but for the past month or so the GFS has been absolutely atrocious... it's always underestimated maxima by a degree or two in summer, generally, but it's plumbing new depths at the moment. The other day was a good example: GFS had 18, MetO 22, it ended up as 22.3. A model that's consistently 3 or more degrees out really isn't very good.

 

Originally Posted by: Retron 

I find that the global models always temper the extremities of temp either side. Icon, Harmonie, hi res UKMO etc a lot more accurate in this regard I think. 


Patrick,

East Galway, Ireland.

DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
Thursday, June 6, 2024 7:05:00 AM
WX charts still having difficulty handling temps over the next two weeks with variations from day to day. For now, for week 1, an invasion of cool (Scotland cold?) weather from the northwest affecting all countries with Atlantic or Baltic coasts, or at least the parts nearer the coast. In week 2, warm weather moves north gradually on a broad front, as far as S England and Denmark; N Scotland still cool, and the E Baltic definitely less warm than shown yesterday. Rain in a long 'streak' in week 1 from N Spain to Alps to W Russia plus some in Scandinavia and N Scotland; in week 2 the 'streak' moves north to Channel and Baltic coasts, affecting S England, while Scotland and Scandinavia become drier.

GFS Op - not really consistent with the above. LP now near N Scotland circulating around the Norwegian Sea and North Sea until about Tue 11th before moving to Scandinavia with lingering N-lies. Then a modest rise of HP but with shallow troughs sliding SE-wards past Cornwall 995mb Fri 14th and 1015mb Tue 18th. HP then builds more strongly but soon retreats westwards and a general area of LP from Scandinavia to France brings back the N-lies from Fri 21st.

ECM - like GFS at first  but the LP Fri 14th runs towards N Ireland and sticks over the Irish Sea 1005mb Sun 16th

GEM - follows ECM in placing that LP over N Ireland

GEFS - temps remaining on the cool side to about Fri 14th then near norm through to Fri 21st, with quite good agreement from ens members for two weeks. Dry in the S until Tue 11th then frequent small amounts of rain; a more irregular pattern in the N with rain appearing more occasionally but quite heavy in some ens members (and becoming drier in the NE later)


War is God's way of teaching Americans geography - Ambrose Bierce

Chichester 12m asl

White Meadows
Thursday, June 6, 2024 9:35:02 AM
Those enjoying this baking hot UKmediterranean weather better not look at ECM. Pretty nasty outlook especially for northern areas. 
Windy Willow
Thursday, June 6, 2024 2:13:47 PM
No doubt that we will start to roast once the 20th June comes around, that's opening night for our show. It always seems to blister show week, no matter which week that ends up being! 😂 Last year the entire cast and crew had hand fans, and thankfully so. This years show isn't so forgiving on the hand fan front, unfortunately.

I'm also thankful that it is cool right now as we've been moving and packing boxes at home, in preparation to for the big shift up north. Just hoping it's not too wet over this weekend, when most of the furniture is going.


South Holland, Lincs 5m/16ft ASL

When I saw corruption, I was forced to find truth on my own. I couldn't swallow the hypocrisy.

Barry White

It’s the end of the world as we know it (and I feel fine) - R.E.M.

Jiries
Thursday, June 6, 2024 3:26:51 PM

I find that the global models always temper the extremities of temp either side. Icon, Harmonie, hi res UKMO etc a lot more accurate in this regard I think. 

Originally Posted by: Chunky Pea 

 Same on apple app temps which data crap model they get is seriously wrong most days by 3 to 5C lower than actual. They were showing correct 20C from this weekend to early next week to 24C to straight 15C which is not possible with warm Europe to Lapland that reached 26C so likely low 20s as normal for near mid June.   

NCross
Thursday, June 6, 2024 6:57:34 PM

Hi,

Last week watched the world weather on sky or bbc, one one of them said a south american country just had its coldest may on record. I dont know which  country

doctormog
Thursday, June 6, 2024 7:14:13 PM

Hi,

Last week watched the world weather on sky or bbc, one one of them said a south american country just had its coldest may on record. I dont know which  country

Originally Posted by: NCross 

I think it was southern parts of Chile and maybe parts of Argentina rather than one specific country and very much in contrast to many other countries.

Meanwhile the outlook for the next week or so in the UK remains on the cool side.


Ally Pally Snowman
Friday, June 7, 2024 7:03:50 AM
Output about as bad as it gets for Summer fans. Next 2 weeks look cool and unsettled.  Temps struggling to hit 20c . We could go the whole of June without hitting 25c which is depressing.  No quick way to a heatwave what I can see . 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
Friday, June 7, 2024 7:36:30 AM
WX charts back to a somewhat more optimistic outlook for warmth today. Week 1 is still cool for all of W Europe (something a little better creeping into Cornwall) then in week 2 a pulse of warmth from the south affects western areas of Europe, especially Germany and Denmark with Britain getting a bit of the action on the western edge of this. The cool plunge is now focused on Finland and W Russia (yesterday it was for Europe as a whole). Rain quite widely across Europe in week 1, in week 2 concentrated on Britain, France and Holland while Scandinavia and the Baltic become very dry.

GFS - current LP near NE Scotland slowly moving to Scandinavia but lingering N-lies until Tue 11th. Brief ridge of HP before shallow troughs move into Britain from the Atlantic 1005mb Sat 15th E Anglia, 1000mb Mon 17th Ireland, the latter making a slow anti-clockwise circuit of Britain before retreating northwards Sat 22nd as the Azores ridge builds from the SW (Yesterday this trough was shown as slipping SE-wards past Cornwall but today the outlook is much more like what ECM then showed). Scandinavia gets the benefits of HP from Sat 15th onwards.

ECM - also has trough from the Atlantic but takes one bite at it, not two, starting Sat 15th 995mb S Ireland and then moving across England to the N Sea Mon 17th. Both GFS and ECM look to be cooler than suggested by WX.

GEM - the trough arrives earlier Thu 13th and does the perambulation of Britain as described above, but in this model it links to LP off the Norwegian coast for generally lower pressure over all of Britain, and no HP for Scandinavia.

GEFS - on the cool side to Sat 15th then near norm to Sat 22nd with good ensemble agreement; at the very end some members show much warmer. Rain in the S from Tue 11th in most runs, mostly small amounts but possibility of heavier Thu 13th and in the SW at any time; in the N rain starts a day or two earlier and is more intermittent though never far away, except that the far NE has some longer drier spells around the 15th.


War is God's way of teaching Americans geography - Ambrose Bierce

Chichester 12m asl

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