Quantum
Monday, February 8, 2021 11:52:08 AM

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Worth noting that GEM was awful again. Should be taken seriously as it predicted this spell first


 



Not that awful



-4C maxima in the SE on Saturday.


 


 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
The Beast from the East
Monday, February 8, 2021 11:53:44 AM

Most GEFS hold the block up, but a number do sink


THis is the best



"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
Monday, February 8, 2021 11:54:47 AM

Originally Posted by: Quantum 


 


Not that awful



-4C maxima in the SE on Saturday.


 


 



I mean longer term pattern, the jet overtops and normal service resumes


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Rob K
Monday, February 8, 2021 12:00:59 PM

Still only a very small minority of runs get anything like what you would call mild at the surface by day 8 here:



There does seem to have been a slight modification from ice days to maxima of around 1C in the south though, being picky.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Snow Hoper
Monday, February 8, 2021 12:10:03 PM

Originally Posted by: Quantum 


 


Remenants of frontal system limiting height of convection. Orography generates shallow lift/convergence.



I'd go with this. The Radar in this region has always looked odd for as long as I can remember. Sometimes with a straight line through ppn changing it from yellow and Greens to the 2 tones of blue. Never made sense.


Going to war over religion is like killing each other to see who has the better imaginary friend.


Home : Thorndon, Suffolk.
Quantum
Monday, February 8, 2021 12:13:42 PM

Originally Posted by: Snow Hoper 


 


I'd go with this. The Radar in this region has always looked odd for as long as I can remember. Sometimes with a straight line through ppn changing it from yellow and Greens to the 2 tones of blue. Never made sense.



I think deeper convection is trying to get going (yellows/greens) but is being supressed so most of it is just shallow stratiform precip.


Stratiform precip can give alot of snow but you need -15C type uppers to get much out of shallow convection, ideally -20C.


So deep is best.


 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Rob K
Monday, February 8, 2021 12:16:38 PM

Originally Posted by: Snow Hoper 


 


I'd go with this. The Radar in this region has always looked odd for as long as I can remember. Sometimes with a straight line through ppn changing it from yellow and Greens to the 2 tones of blue. Never made sense.



There are some local oddities in the radar network. Eg I am very familiar with the triangular wedge extending eastwards in the Winchester area which usually shows lighter than surrounding areas, due I believe to ground clutter blocking that radar beam.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Gandalf The White
Monday, February 8, 2021 12:27:37 PM

Originally Posted by: Rob K 


Still only a very small minority of runs get anything like what you would call mild at the surface by day 8 here:



There does seem to have been a slight modification from ice days to maxima of around 1C in the south though, being picky.



Yes, I noticed that and wondered if the reduced snow cover v what was being forecast might be a factor.


As for the ensembles, it does look like another week of very cold surface conditions - only 4 runs get back to average values and just a couple of runs creep up to the 'rather mild' category.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Saint Snow
Monday, February 8, 2021 12:29:43 PM

I like the reload-battleground scenario that GFS paints here:



 


Nice and in range... 



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Rob K
Monday, February 8, 2021 12:41:17 PM

Now that the crucial battleground is within the 120 hours range, what are people's thoughts on the merits of the high-res models such as Arpege and WRF for tracking the likely developments? Are high-res models less good with those large-scale patterns?


 


I really like the detail on the WRF charts, hourly right out to 120 hours and will be watching with interest how the 6Z handles the end of the week. The 0Z looked really good for continued cold.


Meteociel - Modèle Numérique WRF-NMM 0.1° pour l'Europe


 


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Gandalf The White
Monday, February 8, 2021 12:48:47 PM

The ECM 00z clusters show only about 10% of the perturbations bringing LP in slightly more strongly with a breakdown by Monday. The others are all variations around high pressure holding to our east, with variations on exactly where and therefore whether the flow has a greater or lesser southerly component, i.e. SSE to E.

By days 10-15 there's inevitably more disagreement but still strong support for high pressure to the north with an easterly flow - around 50%. Of the rest there's more support for high pressure closer to the south and westerlies or LP in charge - around 30%. The rest are a bit of a mixture.


https://apps.ecmwf.int/webapps/opencharts/products/cluster_plot_legA?base_time=202102080000&cluster=264_360&parameter=1000


 


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Saint Snow
Monday, February 8, 2021 1:01:36 PM

Originally Posted by: Rob K 


Now that the crucial battleground is within the 120 hours range, what are people's thoughts on the merits of the high-res models such as Arpege and WRF for tracking the likely developments? Are high-res models less good with those large-scale patterns?


 


I really like the detail on the WRF charts, hourly right out to 120 hours and will be watching with interest how the 6Z handles the end of the week. The 0Z looked really good for continued cold.


Meteociel - Modèle Numérique WRF-NMM 0.1° pour l'Europe


 



 


It's been likely (per weight of output) for a couple of days that the initial push from the low will fail. It then regathers itself for another try into next week, and it's this that either succeeds (GEM) or the block more or less holds (GFS, ECM).


The evolution is broadly the same between the 3 models - the northern blocking expands southwards through Scandinavia into mainland Europe, stopping energy from the Atlantic slipping SE'wards to varying extents (GEM the most blocked over mainalnd Europe, leading to a weaker northern portion of the block, which buckles under the eight of that big low to the west - in a really crap alignment to deny a snowy breakdown)


The GFS and ECM look disappointingly dry, though, with a SE'ly flow and the high too close to us.


 



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
nsrobins
Monday, February 8, 2021 1:02:30 PM

Originally Posted by: Rob K 


 


There are some local oddities in the radar network. Eg I am very familiar with the triangular wedge extending eastwards in the Winchester area which usually shows lighter than surrounding areas, due I believe to ground clutter blocking that radar beam.



The site in question is at Dean Hill near Whiteparish, Wilts. Joint UKMO/EA site. 
There’s been issues calibrating attenuation for a while and the signal appears weaker than it should be compared with the rest of the network. The result is cones of low signal radiating out, especially east.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Sevendust
Monday, February 8, 2021 1:03:28 PM

Originally Posted by: Rob K 


 


There are some local oddities in the radar network. Eg I am very familiar with the triangular wedge extending eastwards in the Winchester area which usually shows lighter than surrounding areas, due I believe to ground clutter blocking that radar beam.



I have always wondered about that as well!

UncleAlbert
Monday, February 8, 2021 2:35:22 PM

Originally Posted by: MStewart 


I’m really enjoying model watching at the moment (not as much as lamplight watching on a snowy night but that’s for another thread)


GEFS0z has an increasing number of members indicating continuation of decent cold into the longer term, low precipitation indicates the scandi high being highly influential to our weather to me.  The members touching -15 don’t look as alone as they did a few days ago.


ECM ensemble also shows the UK between a scandi high and mid North Atlantic low pressure. It’s very interesting to see how this plays out and if we have any slider lows for that setup. 


I can’t help but smile ear to ear when I see the FI GFS 0z operational. That channel low is a sight to behold. I can’t help myself! Mustn’t get excited about that just yet


 


 



 


If the weather does not deliver what I would like, I console myself in that the weather (both virtually and in real time and space) is intriguing, amazing and a source of great wonder in my life. We are so lucky to be able to follow its day to day behaviour so closely.


In the meantime the MJO looks still to be in favourable territory and going nowhere fast based on GFS.


https://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/precip/CWlink/MJO/CLIVAR/clivar_wh.shtml

doctormog
Monday, February 8, 2021 4:12:54 PM

Still not overly mild by day 6 on the 12z GFS op:



Rob K
Monday, February 8, 2021 4:21:11 PM

Monday blizzard... slowly turning to rain from the south on Tuesday


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Rob K
Monday, February 8, 2021 4:23:34 PM
UKMO looks similar to ICON at 144... solid blocking but just loses the cold feed for a time. Not a proper breakdown though.
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Justin W
Monday, February 8, 2021 4:29:24 PM

Originally Posted by: Rob K 


Monday blizzard... slowly turning to rain from the south on Tuesday



Interesting how the breakdown keeps slipping. 


Given that par for an easterly cold spell is about five days, this one looks like being one to remember.


Also interesting how GFS keeps wanting to rebuild a Scandi HP in the longer term.


Yo yo yo. 148-3 to the 3 to the 6 to the 9, representing the ABQ, what up, biatch?
warrenb
Monday, February 8, 2021 4:37:15 PM
I would take a week long freeze up with snow.
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