The Weather Outlook

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Gandalf The White
23 December 2018 00:48:51

When you see so many of the purtabations showing similar patterns, I start to get a tad more interested. The latest GFS is snowing several similar mid Atlantic blocking scenarios, with screaming northerlies, with embedded polar lows. Remember that one that dumped a shed load all down the west side from Birmingham to Bristol, must have been the nineties or naughties? I was expecting the scenario shown on the 12z op to have gone for a day or two, but it seems to have multiplied from the control to many more versions. Whether this is data mehem or an emerging trend, the eye candy is most welcome.

Originally Posted by: BJBlake 

Just a minor point: AFAIK the models still don’t pick up true polar lows until at quite short range because they’re mesoscale features that develop in highly unstable Arctic flows.


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



Gandalf The White
23 December 2018 01:04:30

 

 

ECM 12z ensemble suite for London - 2m temperature:

It’s interesting that even by Boxing Day two distinct clusters are developing, one giving slightly above average temperatures (10-11c) and the other below average (6c). The op starts in the milder group but drops by 28th into the cooler group.

Reasonably consistent with the 00z beyond Day 10 with a clear cooling trend and some cold or very cold options appearing and a near-absence if mild options.


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



fairweather
23 December 2018 01:27:46

When you see so many of the purtabations showing similar patterns, I start to get a tad more interested. The latest GFS is snowing several similar mid Atlantic blocking scenarios, with screaming northerlies, with embedded polar lows. Remember that one that dumped a shed load all down the west side from Birmingham to Bristol, must have been the nineties or naughties? I was expecting the scenario shown on the 12z op to have gone for a day or two, but it seems to have multiplied from the control to many more versions. Whether this is data mehem or an emerging trend, the eye candy is most welcome.

Originally Posted by: BJBlake 

I think you are wishing a bit too much judging from your Freudian slip 


S.Essex, 42m ASL
Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
23 December 2018 05:33:21

 

I think you are wishing a bit too much judging from your Freudian slip 

Originally Posted by: fairweather 

 I love these typos!  Adds interest to the boring output!


Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.

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DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
23 December 2018 07:46:28

GFS operational 00Z is a snoozefest until the end of the run but then suddenly shows a major northerly incursion from T+360. 

Don't get excited,  'he only does it to annoy because he knows it teases'


War is God's way of teaching Americans geography - Ambrose Bierce

Chichester 12m asl

White Meadows
23 December 2018 07:58:08

 

I think the reduction in data is significant: over 40% less actual data means the opening approximation of the state of the atmosphere is going to be more suspect than usual. Now bearing in mind that the ensemble suites are designed to test the sensitivity of the model output to small errors in the starting position, and given how we see quite substantial changes in the evolution across those ensemble sets, it seems obvious to me that we are adding a significant layer of uncertainty to an already uncertain position.

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 

only 40% less data doesn’t equate to the minute difference in accuracy score. This is why I think the whole thing is not as credible. 

White Meadows
23 December 2018 08:03:42
ECM is keen to inflate HP close to then over the UK before moving almost directly north. Very unusual.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/en/topkarten.php?map=1&model=ecm&var=1&run=0&time=240&lid=OP&h=0&mv=0&tr=24#mapref 

Retron
23 December 2018 08:03:55

only 40% less data doesn’t equate to the minute difference in accuracy score. This is why I think the whole thing is not as credible. 

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 

A ~10% drop isn't minute.

As I say, it is of course your right to ignore what's been shown to you (and backed up with evidence these past few years). If you want to convince people, though, you need to do your own research to back up your views. That's how science works!

You'd best get a move on if you want to start this year, though, as the data loss will kick off in around 24 hours!


Leysdown, north Kent
White Meadows
23 December 2018 09:02:40
A matter of opinion of course. 10% isn’t enough to change much in my book but I’ll continue to take the models with the usual level scepticism.
Gooner
23 December 2018 09:09:22

GEFS certainly not as good as last nights 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus

Banbury

North Oxfordshire

378 feet A S L



BJBlake
23 December 2018 09:10:32

Not too surprised to see this morning's 'snoozefest' (love that term), but expecting a lot of my good friend Philipe-flop to be making a snowing (yes that was a typo - and probably a Freudian slip to boot- LOL), but very interested to see how the end of Dronegate impacts on the model projections for FI.


Brecklands, South Norfolk 28m ASL
Arcus
23 December 2018 09:19:31

 

A ~10% drop isn't minute.

As I say, it is of course your right to ignore what's been shown to you (and backed up with evidence these past few years). If you want to convince people, though, you need to do your own research to back up your views. That's how science works!

You'd best get a move on if you want to start this year, though, as the data loss will kick off in around 24 hours!

Originally Posted by: Retron 

Yep, I posted the coverage stats last year and don't intend doing it again this year! Anyone that wants to do it, feel free:

https://www.ecmwf.int/en/forecasts/charts/monitoring/dcover?facets=undefined&time=2018122300,0,2018122300&obs=aircraft&Flag=used

 


Ben,

Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire

30m asl

ballamar
23 December 2018 09:50:39
Over the last few years when there has been less data, the models have had the propensity to inflate blocking scenarios. Given the SSW and blocking being around this year we could see some ridiculous charts over Xmas
Hippydave
23 December 2018 09:53:13

GFS has watered down the deep FI signal for retrogression of our resident HP I see, although there's still a small cluster going for it. The dominant cluster now holds the HP just to the South or South West.

ECM op manages to get the HP over us just far enough North to inject some cooler air although this gets mixed out pretty quick - the HP doesn't sink off on this run though which means the option for it moving further North is there still.

In the meantime dry, average or just above day time temps initially, dropping to maybe slightly below if the air under the HP stagnates. I imagine there will be a fair bit of cloud around so cool days but above average nights seems like a reasonable bet, with little diurnal range. Might get lucky and get some clearer air at times which would lead to frosts for some.

Useable enough I guess and still potential for something more interesting from a coldies POV down the line


Home: Tunbridge Wells

Work: Tonbridge

doctormog
23 December 2018 09:58:39
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSOPEU00_384_1.png  (Yes I know the caveats!)

The projected SSW looks on track on this morning’s update and I guess it is just a waiting game. Having a quiet Christmas weather wise is probably good for the majority of people even if it is not that exciting for weather enthusiasts.

The 06z GFS run is starting to trickle out now and it would not surprise me if there were one or two interesting scenarios deep in FI.


White Meadows
23 December 2018 10:06:44

Over the last few years when there has been less data, the models have had the propensity to inflate blocking scenarios. Given the SSW and blocking being around this year we could see some ridiculous charts over Xmas

Originally Posted by: ballamar 

This has been highlighted before, but there’s also an argument to say the models inflate more zonal scenarios with data loss. Impossible to say which outcomes are more/ less favoured which is why it’s best not  to give the idea too much gravity or get our Christmas knickers twisted. 

Gusty
23 December 2018 10:18:12

I see the perfect opportunity for us all to take a 1 week break from model watching.

  1. The weather is benign for the next few days and will not change much from day to day.
  2. Data issues and even less reliability over Xmas.
  3. If something is stirring in deep FI now it could be as close as 144 hours when we come back in a week's time with a fresh pair of eyes.

Have a great Christmas. 

 

 


Steve - Folkestone, Kent

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Notty
23 December 2018 10:28:21

I see the perfect opportunity for us all to take a 1 week break from model watching.

  1. The weather is benign for the next few days and will not change much from day to day.
  2. Data issues and even less reliability over Xmas.
  3. If something is stirring in deep FI now it could be as close as 144 hours when we come back in a week's time with a fresh pair of eyes.

Have a great Christmas. 

 

 

Originally Posted by: Gusty 

 

The force is too great - I won’t be able to stay away. The draw of the FI snow fest appearing is irresistible :)


Notty

Pontypool, 132m asl

Phil G
23 December 2018 10:39:25

I see the perfect opportunity for us all to take a 1 week break from model watching.

  1. The weather is benign for the next few days and will not change much from day to day.
  2. Data issues and even less reliability over Xmas.
  3. If something is stirring in deep FI now it could be as close as 144 hours when we come back in a week's time with a fresh pair of eyes.

Have a great Christmas. 

 

 

Originally Posted by: Gusty 

Have a great Christmas Steve and all. That's "part of the fun" looking out for those first signs, usually false dawns!

Good idea with the 1 week break suggestion though. I am sure though that 95% will be having a sneaky peak. We have to, it's in our DNA.

SJV
23 December 2018 10:41:53

I see the perfect opportunity for us all to take a 1 week break from model watching.

  1. The weather is benign for the next few days and will not change much from day to day.
  2. Data issues and even less reliability over Xmas.
  3. If something is stirring in deep FI now it could be as close as 144 hours when we come back in a week's time with a fresh pair of eyes.

Have a great Christmas. 

Originally Posted by: Gusty 

Have a great Christmas, Steve and everyone else on TWO  Like others I may have a sneaky look at the charts over the festive period - force of habit! 

 

Brian Gaze
23 December 2018 12:01:28

GEFS 06z look mixed and not that encouraging for cold weather fans. Also the Met Office in the last day or two seem to have be casting the net out farther rather than reeling it in. So still a long way to go IMO but not without interest.


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

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Brian Gaze
23 December 2018 12:05:57

 

A ~10% drop isn't minute.

As I say, it is of course your right to ignore what's been shown to you (and backed up with evidence these past few years). If you want to convince people, though, you need to do your own research to back up your views. That's how science works!

You'd best get a move on if you want to start this year, though, as the data loss will kick off in around 24 hours!

Originally Posted by: Retron 

 Unfortunately the evidence can be ignored even by those with a scientific background. On Twitter yesterday a well known broadcast meteorology was apparently advising people to ignore the GFS 6z. The evidence suggests it is fractionally less accurate (although more accurate than the 00z would have been a couple of years ago) than the 00z and 12z but certainly not enough to be ignored. Give it time and someone will roll-out the other nonsense that the real reason for the GFS 6z being flaky is that it is initiated from the GFS 00z t+6.


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 

"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan

roger63
23 December 2018 12:12:34

GEFS 06z look mixed and not that encouraging for cold weather fans. Also the Met Office in the last day or two seem to have be casting the net out farther rather than reeling it in. So still a long way to go IMO but not without interest.

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

The METO prospects for cold at the end of December does not look like coming to pass.The possible change to a colder period is now out to mid January.just hope it doesn't creep to early Feb.

David M Porter
23 December 2018 12:17:08

 

The METO prospects for cold at the end of December does not look like coming to pass.The possible change to a colder period is now out to mid January.just hope it doesn't creep to early Feb.

Originally Posted by: roger63 

From what I could tell from the MetO updates a week or so ago, the chance of a change to generally colder conditions before the end of December was only an outside one and there was never really any consistent signal for this from the models we have access to. It has seemed to me that any change is and always was more likely to be sometime in the New Year.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"A body of men holding themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody." – Thomas Paine

Brian Gaze
23 December 2018 12:19:39

 

The METO prospects for cold at the end of December does not look like coming to pass.The possible change to a colder period is now out to mid January.just hope it doesn't creep to early Feb.

Originally Posted by: roger63 

There is a signal for a colder incursion towards the end of the first week of Jan. However it looks quite transient and based on high pressure in the mid-Atlantic. It possibly ties in quite well with the ECM 30 dayer which ran on 20/12. TBH I'm not really sure what the Met Office have been basing their 30 dayers on in recent weeks. Perhaps GloSea and an SSW wild card have been thrown into the pot. 


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan

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