The Weather Outlook

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nsrobins
19 December 2018 23:24:09
‘The NWP can flip rapidly’. Happened before and will happen again.

The lid as they say might be about to pop 😉


Neil

Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)

Stormchaser, Member TORRO

CreweCold
19 December 2018 23:30:37

We're still shaping up for a potentially severe spell of winter weather through the heart of winter IMO. Looking like a potential split in the SPV could ensue with a resultant tropospheric ridge somewhere on the Scandi-Iceland-Greenland axis.

Exciting times ahead. 


Crewe, Cheshire

55 metres above sea level

Whether Idle
19 December 2018 23:34:47

Meanwhile in the near future, GFS goes for a mild Christmas Day in the S and W (12c Cornwall) , cooler towards the NE(4c Aberdeenshire)

Modele GFS - Carte prévisions


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
idj20
19 December 2018 23:55:54

At times like these we need to put faith in the professionals and concentrate on our careers. 

 

Originally Posted by: Gusty 



. . . Or relationships. 


Home location: Folkestone Harbour.
tallyho_83
20 December 2018 00:14:09

It’s looking more and more likely that we’ll see a split rather than a displacement now, I think surface cold under a U.K. high being the holding pattern until we see the trickle effects of the above. I wonder if we can get a sustained well below average January under our belts?

Originally Posted by: Solar Cycles 

So from what i am getting is that a split in the PV is more convincing or more favourable for cold and blocked weather as apposed to a displacement of the PV? just so i understand I am new to learning about PV and SSW from since last winter 's SSW early to mid Feb so just wondering!?


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

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Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

moomin75
20 December 2018 05:13:21
FI of course but GFS 6z is showing temps up to 15c on NYD now.

Another absolute horror show.


Witney, Oxfordshire

100m ASL

Ally Pally Snowman
20 December 2018 05:27:56

FI of course but GFS 6z is showing temps up to 15c on NYD now.
Another absolute horror show.

Originally Posted by: moomin75 

 

Agree horror show at the moment. But I dont expect to see significant cold until sometime around the 10th to 20th January. And that only if we get a split strat vortex which is signalled for about the 3rd January.  We should start to see some more interesting cold charts about new year is my punt

 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Whether Idle
20 December 2018 06:50:10

 Barely a frost on offer from the 0z GEFS for the English Midlands in the Ensembles,  a  disappointing set of 2m temps for coldies like me.

Anyone fancy BBQ for the New Year Bank Holiday?

The mildish high scenario looking like winning out, and possibly becoming very mild during the twelve days of Christmas, at least initially.

Diagramme GEFS


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
marting
20 December 2018 07:00:02
Important this morning to have a look through the panels on the GEFS this morning. Plenty of interesting charts now appearing - follow the op run at your peril

Martin


Martin

Greasby, Wirral.

Brian Gaze
20 December 2018 07:04:11

A few of the panels are interesting but on balance it's looking poor for cold.

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/gefs.aspx?run=na&charthour=06&chartname=ps_500hpa&chartregion=na-region&p=1&charttag=PS%20500hPa%20(GPDM)

 


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 

"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan

Whether Idle
20 December 2018 07:55:18

GEM picking up on the Christmas Day plume that ECM was toying with 2 days ago.  A recurring theme in the mid range output.


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
roadrunnerajn
20 December 2018 08:00:28
The above chart seems to be coming a very typical pattern for Christmas over the past 20yrs... Obviously with some exceptions.
Germoe, part of the breakaway Celtic Republic. 80m asl
nsrobins
20 December 2018 08:05:28

I

 Barely a frost on offer from the 0z GEFS for the English Midlands in the Ensembles,  a  disappointing set of 2m temps for coldies like me.

Anyone fancy BBQ for the New Year Bank Holiday?

The mildish high scenario looking like winning out, and possibly becoming very mild during the twelve days of Christmas, at least initially.

Diagramme GEFS

Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 

I wouldn’t call maxes of 5-8C ‘mild’ - I believe these are around or just below normal? 

I accept your predilection to inject balance but sometimes you come across as a bit too keen to show the milder options. I still believe there are issues effecting the longer range results and we’re going to see wild swings in output appearing in the next day or so. 


Neil

Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)

Stormchaser, Member TORRO

Rob K
20 December 2018 08:05:29
Is there a second warming forecast then? Because based on the GFS strat charts there is no sign of a split vortex, in fact by the end of the run the strat is cooling again with the vortex still looking very healthy indeed. Surely a second warming would be needed to cause a split.
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl

"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

tallyho_83
20 December 2018 08:08:05

Christ on a cracker !!

Come on - for a negative AO, collapse in zonal winds going negative a week after the SSW - this is about as bad as it can get really and I thought DEC 2015 was poor!

Met Office has been quite persistent with colder and more blocked weather by the New yEAR and here we are 1st day of 2019 and we are bathed in temperatures of 12 to 15c !

the immediate response to the SSW is to turn things exceptionally mild indeed!! 


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

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Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

Solar Cycles
20 December 2018 08:09:56
The models once again go into full Scrooge mode this morning, no signs of of anything wintry right out into la la land. I’d imagine it will be over the Xmas period before we start to see positive changes, if at all that is. Until then all rather mundane after the next few days of dross.
Gandalf The White
20 December 2018 08:36:49

Some odd comments this morning.  The models are firming up on high pressure being close to the UK for the Christmas period.  Exactly how that is positioned and aligned is still unclear but over or just to our south seems favoured.  Close to the high it certainly won’t be mild at the surface 

Out to Day 10 the ECM mean puts a strong high pressure cell just to our south west.

The SSW doesn’t occur for another week and it’s effects on the troposphere are unpredictable and subject to a lag of typically 2 weeks which puts us beyond the range even of the low res GFS.


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



tallyho_83
20 December 2018 08:47:17

Some odd comments this morning.  The models are firming up on high pressure being close to the UK for the Christmas period.  Exactly how that is positioned and aligned is still unclear but over or just to our south seems favoured.  Close to the high it certainly won’t be mild at the surface 

Out to Day 10 the ECM mean puts a strong high pressure cell just to our south west.

The SSW doesn’t occur for another week and it’s effects on the troposphere are unpredictable and subject to a lag of typically 2 weeks which puts us beyond the range even of the low res GFS.

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 

It's starting from tomorrow onwards or do you mean from over the top of the N Pole?


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

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Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

Solar Cycles
20 December 2018 08:47:34

Some odd comments this morning.  The models are firming up on high pressure being close to the UK for the Christmas period.  Exactly how that is positioned and aligned is still unclear but over or just to our south seems favoured.  Close to the high it certainly won’t be mild at the surface 

Out to Day 10 the ECM mean puts a strong high pressure cell just to our south west.

The SSW doesn’t occur for another week and it’s effects on the troposphere are unpredictable and subject to a lag of typically 2 weeks which puts us beyond the range even of the low res GFS.

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 

Mid January being touted as the holy grail. I’d still urge extreme caution though we’re still not sure if we’ll see a split or just a displacement, the former really does increase our chances whislt the latter is a hit and miss affair.

nsrobins
20 December 2018 08:50:38

Is there a second warming forecast then? Because based on the GFS strat charts there is no sign of a split vortex, in fact by the end of the run the strat is cooling again with the vortex still looking very healthy indeed. Surely a second warming would be needed to cause a split.

Originally Posted by: Rob K 

Hi Rob. The warming has begun and the rapid phase starts 22nd with the SSW and technical wind reversal due around 28th (current blend of solutions). Most modelled Strat profiles now show displacement only up to D15 but a full split has come and gone so might reappear.

Now let’s drop down to where all this matters. Downwelling to a tropospheric response (blocking, etc) would be from about 10days beyond the reversal so around Jan 8th so outside GFS although inside EC46 for instance hence why UKM might be quite confident of an Easterly January. The other crucial uncertainty is where any HLB forms and the data I’ve seen suggests a poor correlation between the position of Strat warming and trop HLB so don’t focus too much on where the remnant PV at 10HPa ends up.

My advice to anyone searching for cold stuff is to be patient and remember trying to forecast the weather is about more than just looking at a computer’s headline solution.


Neil

Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)

Stormchaser, Member TORRO

Whether Idle
20 December 2018 08:53:01

I

I wouldn’t call maxes of 5-8C ‘mild’ - I believe these are around or just below normal? 

I accept your predilection to inject balance but sometimes you come across as a bit too keen to show the milder options. I still believe there are issues effecting the longer range results and we’re going to see wild swings in output appearing in the next day or so. 

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 

Thanks Neil.  Each to their own, and I am confident in my deciphering of the models.  Vive la difference.


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Gavin D
20 December 2018 08:58:08

UKMO extended keeps the UK in a mild flow of air with rain in the west

ukm2.2018122700_168_lant.troplant_prp_fcst.gentracker.thumb.png.078dcd2707299b4c6843981fc185088b.png

Chunky Pea
20 December 2018 09:05:31

The models once again go into full Scrooge mode this morning, no signs of of anything wintry right out into la la land. I’d imagine it will be over the Xmas period before we start to see positive changes, if at all that is. Until then all rather mundane after the next few days of dross.

Originally Posted by: Solar Cycles 

This morning's ECM has at least a nice, frosty and seasonal Christmas morning for much of the UK. Here I'll be lucky to see Christmas minima falling below 10c. Looks increasingly probable that I'll have observed more morning frosts in September than December this year. 


Patrick,

East Galway, Ireland.

moomin75
20 December 2018 09:06:01
The very fact that Steve Murr is absent tells me there's not much hope. I always felt December would be a complete write off, and so it's proved.

January will be completely different IMO. It's a case of much patience required.


Witney, Oxfordshire

100m ASL

Gandalf The White
20 December 2018 09:10:50

Mid January being touted as the holy grail. I’d still urge extreme caution though we’re still not sure if we’ll see a split or just a displacement, the former really does increase our chances whislt the latter is a hit and miss affair.

Originally Posted by: Solar Cycles 

I did say the effects of a SSW we’re unpredictable.

An SSW doesn’t guarantee cold weather any more than an absence of an SSW guarantees mild weather.


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



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