The Weather Outlook

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SJV
16 July 2018 17:08:29

The 6z was so good it was inevitable the the 12z wouldn’t be quite as good.
But it only starts to differ in FI (post 168) so still looking good. Even into FI the south remains very warm.

Originally Posted by: superteacher 

It's a bit of a backtrack and given the recent GFS output it isn't as good. But it's not terrible either (especially for the south) and the main differences are still well in FI. Expect more changes over the coming days.

Be interesting to see the GEFS later and of course the ECM. UKMO very positive again and GFS fine in the reliable.

xioni2
16 July 2018 18:53:22

The latest model debacle shows why it's been so pointless this summer to look beyond 5 days out.

Of course the pattern will eventually break, but persistence  remains the best forecast with anomalous high pressure northeast of the UK.

I think both the breakdown runs and the very hot runs will keep failing.

Polar Low
16 July 2018 19:13:51

3O Something uppers across Turkey madness depth of heat across Europe

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/en/topkarten.php?map=19&model=ecm&var=2&time=240&run=12&lid=OP&h=0&tr=24&mv=0

 

Polar Low
16 July 2018 19:25:25

>Thirty expected again sub T76 hours

Chart image

 

Arcus
16 July 2018 19:27:10
The ebb and flow out model output. Seems to me that nothing has changed in the mid term, the influence of troughing to the N comes and goes, the propensity to establish an Azores ridge into the UK with troughing to the west also comes and goes. More runs, as ever.
Ben,

Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire

30m asl

TimS
  • TimS
  • Advanced Member
16 July 2018 19:34:44

3O Something uppers across Turkey madness depth of heat across Europe

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/en/topkarten.php?map=19&model=ecm&var=2&time=240&run=12&lid=OP&h=0&tr=24&mv=0

 

Originally Posted by: Polar Low 

Eastern Turkey is high altitude though - the surface pressure is below 850hPa in places. So those “uppers” on the map are actually “lowers”, or in some cases potentially higher than the surface temp.


Brockley, South East London 30m asl
Polar Low
16 July 2018 19:36:51

Anyone like to comment? that looks very hot to me 35c?

 

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TimS
  • TimS
  • Advanced Member
16 July 2018 19:38:23

The latest model debacle shows why it's been so pointless this summer to look beyond 5 days out.

Of course the pattern will eventually break, but persistence  remains the best forecast with anomalous high pressure northeast of the UK.

I think both the breakdown runs and the very hot runs will keep failing.

Originally Posted by: xioni2 

Agree with that. Persistence - what the weather “wants” to do, is the best bet, at least until it isn’t.


Brockley, South East London 30m asl
Polar Low
16 July 2018 19:38:34

 

Eastern Turkey is high altitude though - the surface pressure is above 850hPa in places. So those “uppers” on the map are actually “lowers”, or in some cases potentially higher than the surface temp.

Originally Posted by: TimS 

Hungry Tiger
16 July 2018 19:41:42

 

BBC forecast at lunchtime has now cancelled the rain for the south for Friday. Pressure rapidly building after the passage of the weak cold front, then the low pressure to the NW is stalling and not moving SE as previously thought. Warming up again for the south for the weekend.

This seems to follow the pattern shown by the latest GFS run, which shows high pressure re-asserting and then setting up over the North Sea and Scandinavia. Definite reload in prospect with a possible hot end to July.

 

Originally Posted by: golfingmad 

Exactly.


Gavin S. FRmetS.

TWO Moderator.

Contact the TWO team - [email protected]

South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.



Polar Low
16 July 2018 19:44:03

 I dont like the gnats thou

With the models showing HP strongly move in here at the position where the sea temps are very high at the moment with 21C over south Ireland and SW UK while the channel and Kent coasts now 19C, Also the Baltic sea are very warm in the low 20's so that probably the reason why HP had been there all summer compare to LP and green to yellow sea temps zones that filter all the way down to near Portugal from what I remember.   HP prefer warm sea to sit and LP prefer cold sea temps I think.

https://www.seatemperature.org/

it updated daily and very interesting.

Originally Posted by: Jiries 

Jiries
16 July 2018 19:45:37

Anyone like to comment? that looks very hot to me 35c?

 

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Originally Posted by: Polar Low 

Records would be broken in Belfast and places in Scotland.   once again the uppers are lower here but can reach 35c due to very dry ground.  Surprised to see one chart you put show 30 to 31c in Thursday.  it seem to being closer on  each run so a cool break is very short lived.

Arcus
16 July 2018 19:45:42
IMBY at least, FWIW the 12z GEFS are actually the warmest ENS in terms of 850s of the last few runs. The Op is very much on the cooler side of the ENS in the mid term.
Ben,

Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire

30m asl

TimS
  • TimS
  • Advanced Member
16 July 2018 19:50:14

GEFS also quite dry down here. Mean pressure a tad lower than 00z and 06z but still better than a few days ago.

I head to France next Wed for 3 weeks. Usually looking for some searing heat at this point, but having had such a nice summer so far I’m keener I’m having 3 weeks of 28C and sunshine.


Brockley, South East London 30m asl
Polar Low
16 July 2018 19:55:44

Crikey you are going to roast 

GEFS also quite dry down here. Mean pressure a tad lower than 00z and 06z but still better than a few days ago.

I head to France next Wed for 3 weeks. Usually looking for some searing heat at this point, but having had such a nice summer so far I’m keener I’m having 3 weeks of 28C and sunshine.

Originally Posted by: TimS 

Downpour
16 July 2018 20:22:48

GEFS also quite dry down here. Mean pressure a tad lower than 00z and 06z but still better than a few days ago.

I head to France next Wed for 3 weeks. Usually looking for some searing heat at this point, but having had such a nice summer so far I’m keener I’m having 3 weeks of 28C and sunshine.

Originally Posted by: TimS 

France likely to be in the cooker. Which area? Usually the south western interior records the highest values in these sorts of set ups. Enjoy your holiday and keep cool!


Chingford

London E4

147ft

White Meadows
16 July 2018 20:24:34

 

Eastern Turkey is high altitude though - the surface pressure is below 850hPa in places. So those “uppers” on the map are actually “lowers”, or in some cases potentially higher than the surface temp.

Originally Posted by: TimS 

Fantastic, educational post. 

This summer is turning out to be a classic. It will already stick in the memory... almost as fun as winter model watching waiting for this heat to expire or continue to hold. 

Just when it looked like changing to cooler this week another resurge is on the cards. Down south it’s honestly felt like a non-stop heat wave since 3rd week of June. 

I don’t remember seeing lawns and hills turning so brown. 

Chunky Pea
16 July 2018 20:37:04

Here is how tonight's EC15 (500hPa anom) looks at day 15:

 

Normal E/W flow remains very disrupted. 


Patrick,

East Galway, Ireland.

TimS
  • TimS
  • Advanced Member
16 July 2018 20:41:23

Here is how tonight's EC15 (500hPa anom) looks at day 15:

 

Normal E/W flow remains very disrupted. 

Originally Posted by: Chunky Pea 

LP a bit closer to you than earlier in the season. But as for Scandinavia: I was talking to a Swede today and they have had a spring and summer every bit as hot and dry as ours. In fact they had a much drier spring. No rain since May. Trees shedding all leaves in the parks. That EC15 gives an illustration of why.


Brockley, South East London 30m asl
TimS
  • TimS
  • Advanced Member
16 July 2018 20:43:15
Anybody think we might be getting some more beasts this winter?

Something in me senses this might not be a dry or blocked period that ends in September, but one that could run until 2019. Even if we have a month or so of normal service in between, as seems likely at some point.


Brockley, South East London 30m asl
moomin75
16 July 2018 20:46:55

Anybody think we might be getting some more beasts this winter?

Something in me senses this might not be a dry or blocked period that ends in September, but one that could run until 2019. Even if we have a month or so of normal service in between, as seems likely at some point.

Originally Posted by: TimS 

Indeed. Thinking that we may be in a more prolonged "drought" and could this be THE 1975 prior to 1976 type scenario.

On the other hand, I still remember the summer that followed the great summer of 2006. In fact 2007 and 2008 were the most dreadful payback. Let's hope that doesn't repeat.


Witney, Oxfordshire

100m ASL

White Meadows
16 July 2018 20:50:38

Anybody think we might be getting some more beasts this winter?

Something in me senses this might not be a dry or blocked period that ends in September, but one that could run until 2019. Even if we have a month or so of normal service in between, as seems likely at some point.

Originally Posted by: TimS 

 

Quite possible yes. Brian and a few others including myself believe the record breaking SSW in February is still having long term affects. How long for and Whether they continue beyond autumn is the key but we’re in uncharted territory. A betting man would go for a dry and bitter winter, at least for one of the winter months to come. 

TimS
  • TimS
  • Advanced Member
16 July 2018 20:55:33

 

France likely to be in the cooker. Which area? Usually the south western interior records the highest values in these sorts of set ups. Enjoy your holiday and keep cool!

Originally Posted by: Downpour 

Maconnais, just north of Lyon. I have a holiday home there and go a few times every year. Eastern France has been warmer and drier than the south west this year. In fact it’s been pretty wet and ordinary in the SW (and Spain, Provence and Italy).


Brockley, South East London 30m asl
golfingmad
16 July 2018 21:05:18

The latest model debacle shows why it's been so pointless this summer to look beyond 5 days out.

Of course the pattern will eventually break, but persistence  remains the best forecast with anomalous high pressure northeast of the UK.

I think both the breakdown runs and the very hot runs will keep failing.

Originally Posted by: xioni2 

I would also like to agree with you. However, the latest runs from ECM are hinting at something a bit different. Even GFS is hinting at it, but  perhaps in a different way.

Ex-T storm Chris has failed to deliver the disruptive influence to the block we have enjoyed now for so long. But it may just be that the injection of energy from Chris has changed the character of the block itself. In the latest runs the SW/NE block has shifted a little bit further east. This may introduce warmer air from continental Europe, which is now getting hot. This is one important component we have not experienced so far this summer. Our warmth and dryness have all been largely home grown. Hence the lack of a really big heatwave 'a la 21st June to 9th July 1976'. We've had consistently warm dry and sunny weather, hence the above average temperatures, but nothing truly spectacular.

Now we have the prospect of real heat. Conversely it could all break down, but somehow the gut feeling is this won't happen. All the ingredients for real heat are in place: the bone dry and warm United Kingdom, the rising sea temperatures, the hot continental Europe, a subtle change in the orientation of the block. There is nothing also on the horizon to bolster the jet. Everything is in place for the development of a serious heatwave, and this is the indication from ECM this evening.

 

 


Cambridge and Winchmore Hill London N21.

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