The Weather Outlook

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Ally Pally Snowman
23 December 2025 04:50:19
Better GFS this morning   with -10 850s making a welcome return to the UK from both the north and east. 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Retron
23 December 2025 05:04:58

Better GFS this morning   with -10 850s making a welcome return to the UK from both the north and east. 

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

The past few GEFS (not the op) have had around a 30% chance of -10 850s for London, so that fits. If you look at -8 instead it's closer to 60% - so going by the GEFS, at least, a pretty cold spell around the new year is somewhat likely. 

Incidentally despite all the doom and gloomin, the raw output down here at least remains seasonal. Bearing in mind the 91-20 average high is 8.2 this time of year, the GFS has, over the next few days:

7, 5, 4, 6, 8, 8, 5, 3

There's a good deal of sunshine too, especially as the cold air digs in on Christmas Day. And yes, 4C with 35mph gusts coming in from the sea and a -3 dewpoint will feel absolutely perishing, despite what my personal troll might say! 

The Met Office raw output is similar. Is it the sort of deep cold that brings snow and icicles? Nope, but as I say at least it'll feel seasonal and it is generally colder than average - and that alone is rare enough these days, let alone at this time of year!

The bonus is there's little sign of the Atlantic returning in the next 10 days either, the definite end of this colder spell isn't yet in sight and that, too, is rare these days. GEM is this morning's party pooper, but I'm not going to take too much notice of one run that far out. 


Leysdown, north Kent
Ally Pally Snowman
23 December 2025 05:43:25
AIFS is similar to GFS this morning,  so a bit of optimism on Christmas Eve Eve.
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Heavy Weather 2013
23 December 2025 07:27:36

AIFS is similar to GFS this morning,  so a bit of optimism on Christmas Eve Eve.

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

This is pleasing. I was close to throwing the towel in yesterday. Model watching isn’t good for me lol


Mark

Beckton, E London

Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.

nsrobins
23 December 2025 07:40:01

This is pleasing. I was close to throwing the towel in yesterday. Model watching isn’t good for me lol

Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 

When the longer range GEFS mean wandered back above -5 yesterday I concluded that a slow return to a westerly type early Jan was more likely than not but this morning there has been quite a shift back in the suite with the mean dropping to -7 (London) which might be the lowest it’s been for a while. 

Given EC analogue and GEM are in the return to default camp this morning I take the new GEFS colder push with only half an eye at the moment but it’s enough to pull me away from the pre-Christmas stuff going on to check the next few runs.


Neil

Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)

Stormchaser, Member TORRO

Brian Gaze
23 December 2025 09:00:49
I've removed OT posts to the breakout thread which is here:

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twocommunity/Posts/m1672377-Model-output-breakout-thread 

Christmas is fast approaching but I'm not in a very charitable mood. Take note and discuss the model output. Also, don't try the usual trick of making an off topic post and then adding a line at the end of it referencing the output. 


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 

"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan

doctormog
23 December 2025 09:18:21
So the cool settled Christmas period is pretty much nailed on with blocking to the W or NW beyond that. However I still am very cautious about making any call for the New Year period. The trend is still there to show a drop in t850s with the high pressure retrogressing westwards. Whether that means something wintry from the north or something a bit more mobile is still up in the air.
Hippydave
23 December 2025 09:29:21
Bit of a mixed bag this morning for me. GEFS nice (and GFS op), ECM op is fairly average 850 wise but mostly chilly at the surface* and the ECM ens are a bit of a mess as shown below. I don't pay an enormous amount of attention to MOGREPS but that shows a decent chance of a cool down in 850s heading towards the 31st but doesn't show the period after. 

*IMBY it's a run of 4-7c for most of it, areas further west are often cooler and Scotland (parts of anyway) has a lot of cold days, notably so later on. 

ECM:

UserPostedImage

The T2M set don't scream mild air in an unsettled pattern, so at the surface chilly is more likely, with a greater chance of average to mild later on but mild still less likely IMO (special mention to the red fella and his ice days and -10 minima!):-

UserPostedImage

All in all the initial pattern remains as most of the output showed - HP dominated and chilly, the longer term pattern remains uncertain and dependent on whether the HP relocates somewhere favourable or gradually sinks or maybe just wanders about keeping it mostly cool dry and uninspiring unless we get lucky with cloud amounts. Yesterday was a step towards the sinker for me but not convincingly so, today maybe has taken half a step back but I'm definitely fence sitting for a few more runs yet. 

Edit - had this post in draft for ages and hadn't seen Michael's post which pretty much says what I said but much more succinctly 🤣


Home: Tunbridge Wells

Work: Tonbridge

DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
23 December 2025 09:40:47
FAX - the current LP removes to form a trough through the Med and then British weather is dictated by HP, 1040mb Christmas Day with E-lies fed from SE Europe; then as this cell declines, a new HP on the Atlantic 1048mb S of Iceland on Sat 27th. There are still brisk E-lies for England but the source of air is now form the north - not that cold as it has crept in around the 'top' of the HP, not directly from the Arctic.

GFS Op 0z -agrees with FAX (if anything the air arriving for Christmas is even more from the SE than the E). Then after some moving around, the HP moves northwards 1045mb near Iceland Wed 31st with the N-lies more direct and colder for the E coast. Then a brief quiet spell with a cold pool trying to get into the south east before Sun 4th when it sets up S of Greenland opening the gates to a strong Arctic N-ly for Britain, fading by Thu 8th when Scotland gets weak SW-lies but a legacy cold pool with NE-lies lies over SE England. Not much consistency there - quite small changes in the position of the HP make quite large differences in temperature so keep watching!

ECM - like GFS up to Wed 31st but then positions the HP west of Ireland covering Britain and no N-ly influence. However the HP then, as in GFS, does depart for Greenland and bring in N/NE-lies from the Arctic for Sun 4th. Having delivered cold air S-wards, by Wed 7th this is circulating around LP 1000mb in Biscay with cold E-lies for all, not just the SE; any SW-lies are blocked by HP then over Iceland.

GEM - is having none of this shilly-shallying. Once the blocking HP declines S-wards, from Wed 31st, the Atlantic is back in full force Fri 2nd with 940mb Iceland and SW-ly gales for all.

AIFS - London, maxima around 5C, dipping lower towards Tue 6th, and dry; Edinburgh, similar maxima but with more variation up and down, rain on Tue 6th

GEFS - briefly cold on Christmas Day in the S but elsewhere continuing mild (and then in the SE too) until Wed 31st, when sharply colder, mean down to 5C below norm Thu 1st (and several ens members colder still), mean slowly recovering to normby Thu 8th but with wide spread of ens members. Small chances of small amounts of rain in the New Year, about a 2/3 chance this will be snow down the east coast but declining towards the west.

GFS and ECM can't make up their mind except that blocking will continue, so overall dry and cold-ish, detailed forecast likely to change day by day. Or you could back GEM  at least it's easy to understand!

I'm staying at my daughter's for Christmas; reviews will continue but timing will depend on her household schedule.


War is God's way of teaching Americans geography - Ambrose Bierce

Chichester 12m asl

Jiries
23 December 2025 09:56:11
https://www.wetterzentrale.de/en/show_diagrams.php?geoid=48656&model=gfs&var=201&run=0&lid=ENS&bw=1 

Now it drying up stage for a week on 0z Nuneaton ensembles and if this HP bring clear skies and frosty nights it will help to lower the ground temperatures and this coming colder spell are not dry as there spikes all the way that starting once the colder air arrive.  Hope to see it lower to below -10c upgrading with further ensembles run  as I only after subzero day maxes, no interest with less cold temperatures 1-4C.

David M Porter
23 December 2025 09:59:15

Better GFS this morning   with -10 850s making a welcome return to the UK from both the north and east. 

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

ECM 12z op looks a bit better too as far as the chances of more prolonged cold are concerned, Ally.

Maybe all isn't lost after all, contrary to the view that have been expressed by some over the past couple of days. I mentioned recently that one thing I have noticed about the model output over many years is that the models often struggle with blocking situations to one degree or another, and I think the set-up that is now developing is likely another instance of that. We shall see. 😉


Lenzie, Glasgow

"A body of men holding themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody." – Thomas Paine

Hippydave
23 December 2025 11:01:53
Well, the 6z GFS op is continuing to fight the good fight I see. 

Cold shot moving south over the country from 30/12 before a brief milder period (uppers wise at least) from around 02-03/01 then a reload from the north initially turning north easterly as the ridge moves/topples towards Scandinavia. 

It's a setup that could look very different with a slight change to position/orientation of the HP but continues a theme of generally chilly, chances of colder air with snow as you head towards the end of the year and maybe some reloads.  

Edit - should have said, on the GFS/GEFS at least! Other models may be less enthusiastic. 


Home: Tunbridge Wells

Work: Tonbridge

Taylor1740
23 December 2025 11:26:04
I'm still not convinced, I accept that the GEFS may have upgraded slightly with the mean 850s, however we need more support from the other models, and even the GFS solution looks like it might only bring cold rain or sleet with max temps around 3c.
NW Leeds - 150m amsl
CField
23 December 2025 11:51:10
UserPostedImage

Good agreement until around Dec 30th mark....anything after that taken with pinch of salt at this moment of time.....


Favourite snowstorm

Famous channel low

Dec 31st 1978

Hastings East Sussex

Foot of level snow severe drifting

Next day max temp -4 degrees Celsius

fairweather
23 December 2025 12:40:55
Both the GFS and ECM ensembles are looking promising at this point in time for a prolonged decent cold spell starting from New Year's Day. The spread is mostly now below the mean as opposed to around the mean.
S.Essex, 42m ASL
Ally Pally Snowman
23 December 2025 12:53:01

UserPostedImage

Good agreement until around Dec 30th mark....anything after that taken with pinch of salt at this moment of time.....

Originally Posted by: CField 

AIFS ensembles now better (colder) than the ECM which is interesting. 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
BJBlake
23 December 2025 13:06:34

ECM 12z op looks a bit better too as far as the chances of more prolonged cold are concerned, Ally.

Maybe all isn't lost after all, contrary to the view that have been expressed by some over the past couple of days. I mentioned recently that one thing I have noticed about the model output over many years is that the models often struggle with blocking situations to one degree or another, and I think the set-up that is now developing is likely another instance of that. We shall see. 😉

Originally Posted by: David M Porter 

Perfectly put - you can understand people’s disappointment after the loss of the strong chance of a Christmas dusting, but the models have always struggled and flip-flopped with cold  or blocked weather - in a way they rarely do with Atlantic flow. Maybe that is because blocked patterns are so rare these days - the data is limited and the influences on the shape and orientation of the block make a huge difference, being that we are located on the boundary of 5 air masses. More pert’s on the GFS support the OP than yesterday too. 


Brecklands, South Norfolk 28m ASL
squish
23 December 2025 16:12:55
The 12z +144 UKMO chart is a big improvement on the 00z run for what its worth.
D.E.W on Dartmoor. 300m asl
Hippydave
23 December 2025 16:54:33
Decent consistency on the 12z GFS op with the 6z upto T240 or so where they diverge and the 12z says no to a renewed northerly (as at T294 anyway). 

UKMO as squish mentions is an improvement on this mornings run, although not as good as GFS IMO. 

One thing just to mention on the end of year Northerly is we are very much on the edge of the cold and it wouldn't take much to make us miss out. (Or I guess a small tweak Westwards and we get more of a direct hit but sods law suggests that's unlikely). 


Home: Tunbridge Wells

Work: Tonbridge

squish
23 December 2025 17:41:43
Yes it's very borderline and 'if' there is a stronger retrogression than modelled the floodgates could open for a significant northerly blast. Alternatively the whole pattern topples very quickly. The models are sort of neither one way or the other at the moment, and probably best that we are not being treated to endless snowfest charts for the New Year..as we would know then it would never happen. But worth keeping an eye on....
D.E.W on Dartmoor. 300m asl
Rob K
23 December 2025 17:44:03
Frustrating charts at the moment - they look to be on the cusp of delivering a proper arctic blast and then they just don't quite manage it.

As John Cleese said in Clockwise, I can take the despair; it's the hope I can't stand...


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl

"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

tallyho_83
23 December 2025 17:53:02
Interesting set up from a cold perspective High building over Greenland and Scandi and NW Russia and high to west of UK then low over southern Europe...etc - I guess at least Europe will urn colder so any easterly will bring in colder airmass - chart for control 252z

UserPostedImage

Op run flattens the ridge @ +252z:

UserPostedImage

AIF @ 252z - Shows very cold airmass to our east as well:

UserPostedImage


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

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Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

Retron
23 December 2025 17:57:13

Frustrating charts at the moment - they look to be on the cusp of delivering a proper arctic blast and then they just don't quite manage it.

As John Cleese said in Clockwise, I can take the despair; it's the hope I can't stand...

Originally Posted by: Rob K 

One of the things I've noticed in recent years, and indeed with the charts being churned out at the moment, is the persistence of heights around the Azores. Even with our Christmas Day easterly, there's still a massive upper ridge over the Azores, and it's that which helps keep the high floating around our vicinity afterwards.

If you look at the last great Christmas easterly, in 1970, you'll see it's quite different around the Azores - there's an upper low there instead:

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/archive/1970/noaa/NOAA_1_1970122518_1.png 

The same is true of many of the noteworthy cold spells of the past, and it's something that's been commented on here before. 

Not that there's anything wrong with a high nearby (even if it ends up shovelling moisture from the Atlantic over us and thus clouds up), but as you say - it does feel like a case of "so near, but so far" when you look at the charts. While I'd love to see one of the ensemble members that shows the European upper trough extending over the UK come to fruition it does seem to be the devil's job to get it to all fall into place. Even as the Christmas cold pool episode shows, once that pool trended south the models have stuck with it!


Leysdown, north Kent
Polar Low
23 December 2025 18:10:47
Hmmm looks a little more movement west gfs, quite a few look very wintry a little uncertain with that energy to the east and a little one north of Iceland what makes a recharge possible.

https://www.meteociel.fr/cartes_obs/gens_panel.php?modele=0&mode=1&ech=180 

tallyho_83
23 December 2025 18:29:09

Frustrating charts at the moment - they look to be on the cusp of delivering a proper arctic blast and then they just don't quite manage it.

As John Cleese said in Clockwise, I can take the despair; it's the hope I can't stand...

Originally Posted by: Rob K 

The Control run - if this isn't frustrating then what is!? Unlike the UK the chart at +288z shows large parts of Europe under the sub -10c@ 850hpa:

UserPostedImage


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

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Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

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