When reading through the various threads recently there is a lot of talk about winters not being what they used to be etc.

No doubt some of the weather in the past was certainly better from a wintery perspective than it has been over the past 20 years or so on the whole,, but do we look back on those days 30/40/50 years ago and in our heads see something that is different to the reality at the time, especially the length of the cold spells with the exeption of obvious extere winters.

The question is purely from a actual weather on the ground perspective rather than synoptically.

When reading through the various threads recently there is a lot of talk about winters not being what they used to be etc.

No doubt some of the weather in the past was certainly better from a wintery perspective than it has been over the past 20 years or so on the whole,, but do we look back on those days 30/40/50 years ago and in our heads see something that is different to the reality at the time, especially the length of the cold spells with the exeption of obvious extere winters.

The question is purely from a actual weather on the ground perspective rather than synoptically.

 

I could write a book on all things perspective that in some way aligns to this.  From a weather POV i think memory is a poor tool to be used as a almanac.  Also lifestyle and age also draws a different perspective.  True there could be small variations that could be attributed to climate.  But unless your life revolves around spending every minute of every day outside, then i dont think it can work like that.

 

Take for instance my brother, Summer he says are rubbish these days.  But then his idea off great summers were going to the pub after work enjoying a pint, maybe doing a bit of camping... Now he has a daughter and he is restricted to weekends (when not at kids parties) and the summer holidays, which are at the end of summer (but everyone seems to forget that)  So from his perspective, summers are cooler, and less reliable.  When in fact theyre probably the same, and those weekdays he probably would have used are now spent looking after his daughter from school etc.  Summer for him now starts end of july, where as previously he would have had a summer from May onwards.

 

Like wise winter.  I cant say ive really seen anything in my nearly 35 yrs as anything properly severe... the odd weather event.. but on the whole pretty much temperate.  We had some cold temsp in 2010, but the most snow ive ever seen was when i was about 13.  Meaning i havent seen snow like that in say 20 yrs.  but i hadnt seen snow that heavy for the first 13.  

 

Social media has alot to answer for in terms of perception.  Im more aware of the weather or news in other places and unfairly judge my situation against that, not my local histroy.  So as a result, i get quite jealous when i see places south of me, usually void of snow, get 1ft of snow.  Or in the summer, places north of me, which should be colder, be warmer and sunnier than me.

 

---

From my view down here, we enjoyed the seasons in the sixties, but something happened as far back as the early to mid seventies.

Sixties winters. It wasn't a case of if we would have a cold freezer spell lasting for two weeks, but when. We had annual football matches on the frozen lake (yes dangerous I know) and for those that remember there were annual ice skating events on the fens in Norfolk. The Dutch done the same.
Autumn. Thick fogs anytime from September to November.
Summer. Good sunny weather and heat and boy those overnight Thunderstorms trundling up from France. They would take you by surprise and the first you would know was waking in the dark with all hell let loose around you.
Every year these happened until something changed during the seventies.

Not many overnight Summer thunderstorms down here, they mostly get deflected along the French coast clipping Kent. The fogs, we have had very few of them. The winters, yes your 79's, '81, '87, '91 and was it 2009/10, but other than that. Certainly not every year like the sixties, it was guaranteed, events were planned. Summer heat, probably little changed overall and that is about the same.

I remember a forecast from the mid seventies and it may have been Bert Ford, but he commented on high pressure sitting over Scandinavia in November and said it would probably be there until April. Since those words, on most occasions high pressure there has been blown away and rarely gets established for a period of time.

Can only think the jet is more active and more of a player in recent times. Certainly the easterlies have more trouble, storms running more west to east, there seems to be a shift towards more active weather patterns, but anything from the East lacks in power. It struggles to reach here anymore.

Back to the op. Yes there is selective memory but those annual skating events, those annual overnight storms, those fogs in the Autumn, they all happened year after year and with the former events were planned for not if, but when they occurred.
Not now though.

When reading through the various threads recently there is a lot of talk about winters not being what they used to be etc.

No doubt some of the weather in the past was certainly better from a wintery perspective than it has been over the past 20 years or so on the whole,, but do we look back on those days 30/40/50 years ago and in our heads see something that is different to the reality at the time, especially the length of the cold spells with the exeption of obvious extere winters.

The question is purely from a actual weather on the ground perspective rather than synoptically.

Not down here. Ice days have become all but extinct, meaning what little snow does fall tends to be very fragile, sloshy wet stuff rather than the more resilient powder.

Look back at the Manston records, for example:

https://en.tutiempo.net/climate/01-1997/ws-37970.html

and you'll see we used to get strings of ice days, rather than none at all.

That led to two things:

• Powder, ie dry snow


• Drifting of said powder snow, filling in ditches and building up a deep buffer of snow


• Snow on snow "top up" events

As a result, snow would linger for days or even weeks, rather than thawing as soon as it stops snowing. Feb 2005 was the case in point: 14 days in a row with snow due to a proper easterly, but the air involved was too warm (too late in the year!) and it was thawing pretty much continuously. Yes, there was snow on the ground but there were no ice days.

I'm glad I still have photos and memories of the 80s and 90s. That said, they make the recent 21 years seem pretty rubbishy in comparison, with Dec 2010 and Feb 2005 only serving to remind me how good it used to be!

 

 

---

From my view down here, we enjoyed the seasons in the sixties, but something happened as far back as the early to mid seventies.

Sixties winters. It wasn't a case of if we would have a cold freezer spell lasting for two weeks, but when. We had annual football matches on the frozen lake (yes dangerous I know) and for those that remember there were annual ice skating events on the fens in Norfolk. The Dutch done the same.
Autumn. Thick fogs anytime from September to November.
Summer. Good sunny weather and heat and boy those overnight Thunderstorms trundling up from France. They would take you by surprise and the first you would know was waking in the dark with all hell let loose around you.
Every year these happened until something changed during the seventies.

Not many overnight Summer thunderstorms down here, they mostly get deflected along the French coast clipping Kent. The fogs, we have had very few of them. The winters, yes your 79's, '81, '87, '91 and was it 2009/10, but other than that. Certainly not every year like the sixties, it was guaranteed, events were planned. Summer heat, probably little changed overall and that is about the same.

I remember a forecast from the mid seventies and it may have been Bert Ford, but he commented on high pressure sitting over Scandinavia in November and said it would probably be there until April. Since those words, on most occasions high pressure there has been blown away and rarely gets established for a period of time.

Can only think the jet is more active and more of a player in recent times. Certainly the easterlies have more trouble, storms running more west to east, there seems to be a shift towards more active weather patterns, but anything from the East lacks in power. It struggles to reach here anymore.

Back to the op. Yes there is selective memory but those annual skating events, those annual overnight storms, those fogs in the Autumn, they all happened year after year and with the former events were planned for not if, but when they occurred.
Not now though.

 

Ive always wondered if the reduction of smoke fires in peoples houses has some play in that - if indeed your perception is accurate (dont be offended by that, just see my remarks further up about perception vs lifestyle, age and other information we are now exposed to)

 

It would certainly explain the less fog.  Given your proximity to London both as the crow flies and down wind (trade winds), would i would think be a massive player in thunderstorm seeding and other similar extremes.

 

Im always intrigued when i see weather almanacs from that time and find their daily weather as ordinary and boring as it can be now.  Some times of years without any snow for our region.  It has never been an annual thing for anyone in the country, even for those in hillier areas.  Theyre just marginally more prone thats all.

---

 

Not down here. Ice days have become all but extinct, meaning what little snow does fall tends to be very fragile, sloshy wet stuff rather than the more resilient powder.

Look back at the Manston records, for example:

https://en.tutiempo.net/climate/01-1997/ws-37970.html

and you'll see we used to get strings of ice days, rather than none at all.

That led to two things:

• Powder, ie dry snow


• Drifting of said powder snow, filling in ditches and building up a deep buffer of snow


• Snow on snow "top up" events

As a result, snow would linger for days or even weeks, rather than thawing as soon as it stops snowing. Feb 2005 was the case in point: 14 days in a row with snow due to a proper easterly, but the air involved was too warm (too late in the year!) and it was thawing pretty much continuously. Yes, there was snow on the ground but there were no ice days.

I'm glad I still have photos and memories of the 80s and 90s. That said, they make the recent 21 years seem pretty rubbishy in comparison, with Dec 2010 and Feb 2005 only serving to remind me how good it used to be!

 

 

I randomly changed the link to 1977
Most of the 1970s had indifferent winters until 1978 and 79. For example
https://en.tutiempo.net/climate/01-1977/ws-37970.html

---

I randomly changed the link to 1977
Most of the 1970s had indifferent winters until 1978 and 79. For example
https://en.tutiempo.net/climate/01-1977/ws-37970.html

Yup, the 70s as a whole weren't very exciting... but they were still streets ahead compared to the last 21 years!

1970/1 and 1978/9 both saw proper easterlies with ice days, powder snow etc etc.

I really could do with a proper easterly, with ice days, powder snow etc right now. Here's hoping the GEFS is on to something!

 

---

If anyone has it available and if it still exists, can someone post the link to the archive charts where you can select a chart for a date as far back as you like, preferably something like wetterzentrale.
Sure I'm not making those proper seasons of the sixties up.

 

Not down here. Ice days have become all but extinct, meaning what little snow does fall tends to be very fragile, sloshy wet stuff rather than the more resilient powder.

Look back at the Manston records, for example:

https://en.tutiempo.net/climate/01-1997/ws-37970.html

and you'll see we used to get strings of ice days, rather than none at all.

That led to two things:

• Powder, ie dry snow


• Drifting of said powder snow, filling in ditches and building up a deep buffer of snow


• Snow on snow "top up" events

As a result, snow would linger for days or even weeks, rather than thawing as soon as it stops snowing. Feb 2005 was the case in point: 14 days in a row with snow due to a proper easterly, but the air involved was too warm (too late in the year!) and it was thawing pretty much continuously. Yes, there was snow on the ground but there were no ice days.

I'm glad I still have photos and memories of the 80s and 90s. That said, they make the recent 21 years seem pretty rubbishy in comparison, with Dec 2010 and Feb 2005 only serving to remind me how good it used to be!

 

 

That is a very useful site which will come in handy when I am comparing this year with what has happened in the past. For here in Edinburgh, that only has the data for two of my local stations which are Edinburgh Gogarbank and Edinburgh Airport, whereas the botanic gardens in Edinburgh isn't listed there. This also shows clearly that Edinburgh Gogarbank is actually a much newer station than Edinburgh Airport as the data for there, only goes as far back as 2003 whereas the data for Edinburgh Airport goes all the way back to 1973.

I have also found out from that site, that Edinburgh Airport used to be the main station in Edinburgh for recording rainfall totals, although there hasn't been any such data for that since 1998. Nowadays of course, rainfall totals data is no longer recorded at Edinburgh Airport and so, it is Edinburgh Gogarbank and the botanic gardens in Edinburgh which have now become the main centres for such data.

Since this is a thread for perceiving how we see past weather in terms of how we remember it. I would say that for me, we tend to remember things in such a way that we tend to remember only the most dominant weather at that time. This means that decent summers are remembered as though that was what the weather was like all the time with cold and severe winters being remembered in the same manner. This means that it is easy to forgot that even a really good summer will still have had at least one cooler and more unsettled spell of weather within it at some in time and in the same way, we also tend to forget that even our coldest and most severe winters will have had at least one milder spell within it at some point in time.

It is the same with poor summers and mild winters because a poor summer will be remembered as though it had done nothing but rain all the time during that period with mild winters being remembered as though there was never a single cold day within them. The actually reality though is that even a mild winter will at least one brief cold snap within it, whereas a poor summer will still always have at least one run of two or three decent days within it. The nice thing is as well, is that sites such as the one which I have just mentioned helps to put that into perspective quite nicely.

 Having sites such as the one which I've just mentioned though, helps to put all of that into perspective really nicely.

 

---

If anyone has it available and if it still exists, can someone post the link to the archive charts where you can select a chart for a date as far back as you like, preferably something like wetterzentrale.
Sure I'm not making those proper seasons of the sixties up.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/de/reanalysis.php?map=1&model=noaa&var=1

Should help. 

---

My rose-tinted years are definitely from 1978 to 1985, being my late primary to secondary school years. My recollection of those winters were not if we were going to get sledge-able snow, but when it would happen. I suspect this is because these were the years when I was out and about more, making full use of the snow when it fell sledging and making slides. After that, other things took preference both academically and socially!

---

 

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/de/reanalysis.php?map=1&model=noaa&var=1

Should help. 

Thanks Ben. Going to play around with this! Just looked at early part of 1969 and some special charts there as it moved into February. That Scandi HP was never far away.

I do think we see things with rose tints. I know I remember events of weather but I think that’s because they were just events, and not quite the norm!  I remember walking to school in snow in the early sixties, but I don’t remember walking to school in the rain!  I’m sure that’s because rain was more common!  Snow was an event to remember!  Snowmen didn’t last much longer than a couple of days then either.

I also remember rainy days in the summers of the sixties because my parents did lots of fun things to entertain us indoors.  Sunday picnics in the countryside were substituted with a tablecloth on the living room floor just to keep the disappointment and boredom at bay!

I agree the seventies were a bit less memorable for winters and I also remember my dad being proud of his roses still blooming well into the new year. I remember some very hot days and summer storms in the mid seventies though. 

In 2010 we did get more snow than most, with several days of snow and some very low temperatures, which preserved the snow for weeks. But I have never seen that much snow here in my lifetime.  It might have seemed deep in January 1960 when I was walking to school, but half way up your wellies when you’re a small child is only ankle deep when you’re an adult.

 

 

---

I don’t think I look through rose tinted spectacles. I lived through the 70’s and 80’s winters. I remember icicles three or four feet long, rivers and canals freezing hard for weeks, deep snow that’s measured in feet not millimetres. Snow falls that didn’t melt after an hour, freezing fog and real ice days. Our village cut off for days, snow blowing hard from the fields filling roads and lanes quicker than a snow plough could clear.
What we get now is a pale shadow of winters past, and by the way I don’t live on the side of a Scottish mountain either.
The death of the mid winter easterly is a mystery

Oh and the fogs of the fifties sixties and seventies, really were pea soupers!  But living in a mining village, it was smog!  Everyone had coal fires in those days and the fog brought the smoke down with it so it was thicker, it lasted longer and it really did smell of coal smoke.  

---

Believe Brian mentioned some time ago about cleaner air and less fogs.
Still doesn't answer the other changes since the seventies.

I do think we see things with rose tints. I know I remember events of weather but I think that’s because they were just events, and not quite the norm!  I remember walking to school in snow in the early sixties, but I don’t remember walking to school in the rain!  I’m sure that’s because rain was more common!  Snow was an event to remember!  Snowmen didn’t last much longer than a couple of days then either.

 

 

I agree to some extent, although some of the events themselves may have been noteworthy and as others have described I think there is a tendency to think that these events lasted for weeks or longer and in reality the brain just homes in on the event itself and then thinks the majority of the time in years past were like the "events" we remember. (appreciate a couple of events were very lengthy like 1979/1986)

I know the cet doesn't tell the full picture of reality but it gives an idea so I've picked January as a month to look at and gone back to 1964, then broken the month into 4 weeks,(1st to 8th) (9th to 16th) (17th to 24th) and (25th to 31st) not as scientific as using a rolling 7 day but a guide for the purpose of this thread, 50 coldest below.

Some expected periods there but not as predominantly full of the expected decades and more of a spread of years than people would imagine ?

1982	-4.2625	week	2
1987	-3.325	week	2
2010	-1.9625	week	1
1985	-1.4375	week	2
1979	-1.225	week	1
1979	-1.1875	week	4
1970	-0.9	week	1
1997	-0.825	week	1
2013	-0.7	week	3
1996	-0.625	week	4
2009	-0.575	week	1
1966	-0.1125	week	3
1979	-0.025	week	3
1966	0.0375	week	2
1980	0.275	week	2
1985	0.35	week	1
1992	0.3875	week	4
1976	0.6	week	4
1985	0.6375	week	3
1965	0.7625	week	4
1991	0.8125	week	4
2010	0.8875	week	2
1971	0.9625	week	1
1967	1	week	1
1979	1	week	2
1986	1.05	week	4
2013	1.075	week	2
1986	1.125	week	1
1987	1.15	week	4
2015	1.2	week	3
1984	1.2625	week	3
2002	1.3	week	1
1972	1.35	week	4
1977	1.425	week	2
2011	1.5125	week	4
1992	1.65	week	3
1987	1.7375	week	3
2003	1.9	week	1
2006	1.925	week	4
1964	2.075	week	2
2010	2.0875	week	4
2001	2.1125	week	3
1998	2.175	week	4
2001	2.1875	week	2
1964	2.2125	week	3
1978	2.3	week	3
1968	2.425	week	2
1968	2.5625	week	1
1977	2.625	week	1
1991	2.675	week	2

Believe Brian mentioned some time ago about cleaner air and less fogs.
Still doesn't answer the other changes since the seventies.

I think thermal inversion was a cause of a lot of the smog before the Clean Air Act really took effect. 

I don’t really think there has been so much change since the seventies!  We’ve had periods of colder and warmer weather for as long as I can remember, which goes back further.  

---

I don’t think I look through rose tinted spectacles. I lived through the 70’s and 80’s winters. I remember icicles three or four feet long, rivers and canals freezing hard for weeks, deep snow that’s measured in feet not millimetres. Snow falls that didn’t melt after an hour, freezing fog and real ice days. Our village cut off for days, snow blowing hard from the fields filling roads and lanes quicker than a snow plough could clear.
What we get now is a pale shadow of winters past, and by the way I don’t live on the side of a Scottish mountain either.
The death of the mid winter easterly is a mystery

That must have been some winter. Which year was it?

memory is a funny thing so I always prefer facts and solid data sets. Thankfully many are available including everything from snowfall catalogues, almanacs and graphical presentations. 

http://www.neforum2.co.uk/ferryhillweather/bonacina.html

http://www.trevorharley.com/weather_web_pages/britweather_years.html 

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/pub/data/weather/uk/climate/averages/maps/uk/6190_1km/SnowLying_Average_1961-1990_16.gif 

There are some great winters in the last 40 years or so but there are plenty of poor ones in terms of wintry weather. (And yes no extremely cold easterlies for a while)

---

 

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/de/reanalysis.php?map=1&model=noaa&var=1

Should help. 

Been running daily charts from 1st Jan to March starting in 1969 and working backwards to 1963 which was quite remarkeable how the cold reloaded and came back at us again and again.

Few observations overall during the sixties was the amount of cold to the north to east of us. It did not take much pattern change to bring the cold air in as it was so near, virtually on tap. The jet was much less powerful. Not many of these long ribbons running from the eastern seaboard, very fragmented and they dived south quite often. The atmosphere was quite turbulent though in that there were frequent changes in pressure. Again that cold air nearby was easy to grab and bring in albeit from a west- east moving low pressure or high pressure nearby.