Whether Idle
18 December 2014 20:06:04

Check out some past events...



The winter (1979-80) really is worth a look, (on Kartenarchive) I fear it could have some similarities to this year's winter but I comfort myself that we've had 35 years  of time elapse where the composition of the atmosphere has changed a bit, so analogues may no longer be applicable in the way they once might have been.


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
roger63
19 December 2014 09:06:17

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/CFSv2/htmls/euT2me1Mon.html


For what it is worth CFS now suggesting a close to average January and a  cold February.

Stormchaser
19 December 2014 15:28:16

Originally Posted by: roger63 


http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/CFSv2/htmls/euT2me1Mon.html


For what it is worth CFS now suggesting a close to average January and a  cold February.



Hold on a minute - it says the initial conditions are 17th-27th November which makes it considerably out of date... did they finally give up on running the model or something? 


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some faraway beach
19 December 2014 18:39:19

Initial conditions 7-17 Dec.:


http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/CFSv2/htmls/euT2me3Mon.html


Average for the UK until a below-avge May and June.


2 miles west of Taunton, 32 m asl, where "milder air moving in from the west" becomes SNOWMAGEDDON.
Well, two or three times a decade it does, anyway.
roger63
19 December 2014 18:43:26

Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


 


Hold on a minute - it says the initial conditions are 17th-27th November which makes it considerably out of date... did they finally give up on running the model or something? 



Thanks for the  correction  Stormchaser. Youo are right -I pressed the E1 button instead of  E3 So Feb has moved from below average to average.

KevBrads1
20 December 2014 07:18:44

Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


Check out some past events...



The winter (1979-80) really is worth a look, (on Kartenarchive) I fear it could have some similarities to this year's winter but I comfort myself that we've had 35 years  of time elapse where the composition of the atmosphere has changed a bit, so analogues may no longer be applicable in the way they once might have been.



That was still a better winter if you want wintry weather than most winters from 1987-88 to 2007-08. The January was colder for the CET than any January from 1988 to 2014 with the exception of 2010. 


 


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Timelapses, old weather forecasts and natural phenomena videos can be seen on this site
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Frostbite80
20 December 2014 09:28:34
Not great news from dr Cohen if you are someone waiting for a ssw to introduce a cold spell as he has now pushed this back to mid jan and with a lag time of a couple of weeks or so we could be looking at February for any decent cold arriving if at all. Although a ssw isn't the be all and some are sceptical at the very least, most would like all possible positives to materialise to get this little island some decent snow.

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Saint Snow
20 December 2014 10:02:59

Thoroughly depressing output at the moment. More rain. Great.




Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
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Andy J
20 December 2014 22:20:32

Originally Posted by: KevBrads1 


 


That was still a better winter if you want wintry weather than most winters from 1987-88 to 2007-08. The January was colder for the CET than any January from 1988 to 2014 with the exception of 2010. 


 



I agree. I remember the 1979-80 Winter quite well.  There were actually quite a few snow events during that Winter, in my location anyway.  There were regular frontal snow to rain events, especially in January, as Atlantic fronts pushed into quite a strong Continental High Pressure area at times.  There were some heavy snowfalls too, a very impressive heavy wet snowfall on January 14th, and another heavy fall in mid March, followed by a vicious cold easterly just after that, bringing a lot of snow showers in.  February 1980 was disappointing, mainly mild, but other than that a pretty decent Winter for snowfall.


Gainsborough, Lincolnshire.
Jonesy
22 December 2014 13:12:44

The meto outlook till the 20th Jan basically covers just about everything so can't really get too excited 


On a different subject has anyone noticed that it's stayed light to later this winter? yesterday it was about 4.25 before it got dark here, not complaining but as for the shortest day, it wasn't like it use to be 


Medway Towns (Kent)
The Weather will do what it wants, when it wants, no matter what data is thrown at it !
Gavin P
22 December 2014 13:21:37

Originally Posted by: Jonesy 


On a different subject has anyone noticed that it's stayed light to later this winter? yesterday it was about 4.25 before it got dark here, not complaining but as for the shortest day, it wasn't like it use to be 



Very dull today here though.


Rural West Northants 120m asl
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Stu N
22 December 2014 13:22:04

Originally Posted by: Jonesy 


The meto outlook till the 20th Jan basically covers just about everything so can't really get too excited 


On a different subject has anyone noticed that it's stayed light to later this winter? yesterday it was about 4.25 before it got dark here, not complaining but as for the shortest day, it wasn't like it use to be 



 


Can't say I've noticed, sunset has been the same time as usual! Most likely there have been a few more clear evenings than normal, which you'd notice as heavy cloud can make it look like it's getting dark at 2.30pm...

Saint Snow
22 December 2014 15:25:43

Originally Posted by: Gavin P 


 


Very dull today here though.



 


Do you mean in rural West Northants? Or on TWO?


 




Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
sam1879
22 December 2014 15:42:09

Still potential for fairly cold January/February based on current models and hints from MO outlook and others  


Part of me would like another mild winter (no need for gas central heating most of this year always a good thing ) and helps keep the pressure on Putin's Imperial/Mafia Russia (off topic but true!)


 


 


 

Gavin P
22 December 2014 17:24:27

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


 


 


Do you mean in rural West Northants? Or on TWO?


 




Are you trying to get me into trouble? 


Rural West Northants 120m asl
Short, medium and long range weather forecast videos @ https://www.youtube.com/user/GavsWeatherVids
chiversa
23 December 2014 16:29:43
i know this is US focused , but I thought it was interesting in stating the current forecasts for the Northern Hemisphere are 'all over the place' due to El Nino and " forecast for a ‘highly variable’ (El Niño like) pattern, with large swings in Temp anomalies during JAN seems to be the most likely outcome at this time"

http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=2883 

Alan
Whether Idle
27 December 2014 09:05:50

 


The failure of this high to hold north is not unexpected.  The resultant resetting of a flattish westerly pattern with some cool Pm air at times interspersed with chunks of Tm and accompanying wind are a predictable but poor outcome for those hoping to see lowland snowcover for a day or two after this spell is over.


My feeling is that January will see its usual absence of northern blocking and it will again fail to deliver its considerable cold potential, with the possible exception of the last week.  I am very happy for this to be wrong, but its my take as things stand.  February offers more hope at this stage, but a milder winter overall than the 1981-2010 average is looking likely to me.


The events of 2012-13 offer some hope for a change.   I will continue to hope my Dec 1st LRF is wrong for January.  Enjoy your model watching!


WI


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
27 December 2014 22:50:46

I have been taking a look at what has happened to the CET in the period after significant past SSW events to see if there is any trend worthy of note. Of course it is important to point out up-front that there are many factors that influence temperature and so any consideration of just one or two variables cannot in and of itself suggest that those variables may be the key influence of temperature differences.


In order to identify significant SSW events I made use of the following article from 2007 by Charlton and Polvani. This has a very handy table of SSW events on page 453 covering the period 1958 to 2002.


Charlton and Polvani article


I then turned to other online sources to identify SSW events since 2002. In particular this site by Patrick Martineau was very helpful. I have only used events that, on his index, are -2.9 NAM or less.


http://p-martineau.com/ssw-animations/


This gives me the following table of SSW events since 1958. The first column shows the central date of the SSW (or in the case of events since 2002 the date of the weakest Polar vortex state). The next column indicates whether the SSW caused the Polar vortex to be merely displaced or actually caused a split in the vortex. The third column shows whether the SSW event was a relatively weak one or a relatively strong one.



At this point it is worth referring back to the Charlton and Polvani paper. If you go to page 463 and refer to diagrams a) and b) these show the 1000hPa geopotential height anomalies for the 60 days from the central date of the SSW event. Chart a) is for vortex displacement events and b) for split vortex events. What we see is a clear positive height anomaly over the Pole and a negative anomaly over the Azores suggesting an anomalous easterly flow for the UK. The anomalies are higher for split vortex events. The data seems very clear on this.


So if we then go back to my table I was interested to see what effect this anomalous easterly flow had on the CET. So I compared the actual CET for each of the 60 days following the central date of each SSW event to the 1971-2000 mean temperature for each date. This gave me an average CET anomaly for the 60 days which is presented in column 4 of the table. Column 5 then gives the number of days within the 60 day period where the CET was more than 2C below the 1971-2000 mean.


The results show that the CET mean is, on average, about one-third of a degree below the 1971-2000 mean in the 60 days following an SSW event. This is not a very large anomaly but is still interesting. There seems to be no difference in the temperature anomaly between vortex displacement and vortex splitting events.


There is, however, a larger temperature anomaly with strong SSW events compared to weaker events. For these purposes I define a strong event as one where the temperature anomaly in the final column of the table on page 453 of the Charlton and Polvani paper is +8 Kelvin or greater. For later events I take SSW events shown in the Martineau paper with a minimum NAM figure of more than -4.  


I have also analysed the temperature impact by the month in which the SSW occurs. What we see here is that the earlier in the winter the SSW occurs the higher the temperature anomaly on average. For those SSWs that occurred in March (of which there are not many) the temperature anomaly was in fact on average positive. The vast majority of SSWs occur in January and February. In recent times almost all have occurred in January.


I then got to thinking about what other factors might significantly influence the temperature changes that might be triggered by a SSW. An obvious factor is the QBO. As noted above, a SSW typically results in an anomalous easterly flow over the UK. If this occurs during a westerly (positive) QBO phase then the easterly flow that the SSW attempts to trigger may well be offset partly or entirely by the westerly QBO effect. Conversely during periods where the QBO is easterly (negative) this is likely to be enhanced by the anomalous flow resulting from a SSW.


When we look at the temperature anomalies split by QBO phase we see a very significant result, albeit this is not really surprising. The final column of my table gives the QBO figure for the month in which the central date of the SSW occurs.


When a SSW occurs during a month where the QBO is negative, on average temperatures in the following 60 days are above average suggesting the positive QBO is more than offsetting any impact from the SSW. When the QBO is between 0 and -8 there is a negative temperature anomaly broadly equal to the average anomaly for all SSW events.


When the QBO is lower than -10 and a SSW occurs the resulting temperature anomaly for the next 60 days is on average about -1C which is very significant indeed.


Again I repeat my earlier comment that there are many influences on temperature so one has to be very careful in drawing any conclusions. As can be seen from the data in my table even in years with a very negative QBO and a strong SSW, the CET in the following 60 days has been warmer than average in some instances (the best example of this being January 1977).


Nevertheless the data would suggest that a major SSW event in early to mid-winter during a strong easterly QBO phase does increase the likelihood of temperatures being below average in the following 60 days.


One final point to highlight is that the temperature figures in my table are averages. I am not saying that a SSW can give 60 days of bitter cold. On the contrary after all such events the temperature patterns are very variable as they always are because of the multitude of any factors that impact on our weather. So even when we have experienced spells of very cold weather following a SSW there are periods of warmer weather as well when temperatures are above average. It is just that overall over a 60 day period temperatures tend to be somewhat below average.


So if we now look at 2014/15 and try to apply some of the thinking above what do we see? Well as we know the QBO is very heavily negative at the moment (below -20 in fact). So that is obviously helpful. The models are showing a potentially significant warming event developing in the stratosphere over the next 10 days.


Major warming over Siberia has already displaced the Polar Vortex somewhat although the vortex itself is still intact and circular in nature at the moment as shown by the 18z GFS run.


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014122718/gfsnh-10-18.png?18


As we reach the end of the high resolution section of the GFS run we see the Polar Vortex starting to split in two. By T240 the split is complete


 http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014122718/gfsnh-10-240.png?18


The 18z GFS(P) run does not quite manage a split vortex (although previous runs have). The vortex is heavily displaced though but does try to reassert itself by T240.


Anything beyond this is way into FI and in low resolution so should be ignored. A splitting vortex has been modelled fairly consistently for a few days now so it is conceivable that a SSW could occur during the first half of January but far too early to be cerain. We will need to see wave breaking as well in order for the cold air from the Pole to be displaced south into the mid latitudes. But the building blocks are there so something to keep a close eye on in the next 10 days.


Finally, on a separate point I have been looking back at some analysis I did in November on CET analogue years. The best fit now we are approaching the end of December is in fact 1984/85. The data is indeed a remarkably good fit since about 8 December.


Now of course January 1985 was very cold indeed and at the moment it seems unlikely that January 2015 will be as cold as this. But I would not rule it out, especially if a SSW does occur. The chart below shows how the daily CET for October to December in 2014 compares to 1984.



Interesting times ahead I think. This winter is just getting started weather wise and I would be surprised if we do not see some breaks in the more zonal flow during the next couple of months.

KevBrads1
28 December 2014 06:47:36
Thanks for your analysis GW. Interesting.

I am wondering if too much emphasis has been put on the stratosphere in recent times. Go back to the early days of TWO and it was virtually never mentioned, now it is regular talked about. Has the pendulum swung too far over?

An example is Matt Hugo aka MVH. I regular read his tweets but he he seems to only go on about the bloody stratosphere now. I tweeted him about his thoughts on the potential weekend storm, which was far more important but I am amazed he made hardly any tweets on it. He wasn't talking about the stratosphere, 6 years ago, now he can't start talking about it.


MANCHESTER SUMMER INDEX for 2021: 238
Timelapses, old weather forecasts and natural phenomena videos can be seen on this site
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgrSD1BwFz2feWDTydhpEhQ/playlists
Whether Idle
28 December 2014 06:56:44

Originally Posted by: KevBrads1 

Thanks for your analysis GW. Interesting.

I am wondering if too much emphasis has been put on the stratosphere in recent times. Go back to the early days of TWO and it was virtually never mentioned, now it is regular talked about. Has the pendulum swung too far over?

An example is Matt Hugo aka MVH. I regular read his tweets but he he seems to only go on about the bloody stratosphere now. I tweeted him about his thoughts on the potential weekend storm, which was far more important but I am amazed he made hardly any tweets on it. He wasn't talking about the stratosphere, 6 years ago, now he can't start talking about it.


A lot of the talk of SSW (not GWs excellently well researched post above) is an attempt to gain intellectual high ground, to appear to be the bearer of "good news", to be the first to "spot" the next cold shot and therefore claim (mistakenly) some kind of credo and authority from the early observation.


Almost all talk of SSWs appears to me to come to nothing meaningful on the ground.  The acreage of cyberspace clogged up with SSW talk is hugely disproportionate compared to a meaningful understanding of the true cause and real effects, though as I say GWs post above is an exception in this respect.


WI


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
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