The Weather Outlook

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TomC
  • TomC
  • Advanced Member
09 November 2013 11:58:50

As you said in the past Tom, the atmosphere is in constant chaos.

Originally Posted by: Charmhills 

Exactly but some scenarios can still be more likely than others but as you say constant chaos.

Solar Cycles
09 November 2013 12:39:19

The MetO very confident prediction of a warm November issued on its website just 8 days ago is going horribly wrong with temps during the first 8 days below average especially in the north where its been particularly chilly with night frosts and hill snow.

Now the MetO have dropped the warm November forecast all together with an updated MRF indicating a cool month, all this with such high Atlantic SST's

Confidence significantly decreases regarding which weather type is most likely to dominate through this forecast period. There are currently no strong signals indicating significantly above or below average temperatures or rainfall. However, the projections suggest that precipitation amounts are more likely to be just above the seasonal average than below. This would suggest that the weather remains changeable with spells of showers or longer spells of rain, particularly in the north and west, interspersed with drier and clearer periods, giving a greater threat of overnight frost and fog. Temperatures are also more likely to be just below average than above, and this would give a greater threat of wintry precipitation, particularly over hills.

Updated: 1201 on Fri  8 Nov 2013

Model output continues to show cool zonality which again is surprising given the high SST's, where is the cold air coming from?

Its back to the drawing board with any winter forecast IMO.

Andy

Originally Posted by: TomC 

The key phrase in the MetO MRF sums up any winter forecast 'Confidence significantly decreases'.

That says it all!

Andy

Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 

It does and for time scales beyond 2 weeks it is very rarely more than 75%. In my view all the indications are for a mild winter in NW Europe but that obviously doesn't mean it will be mild just more likely than recent winters. Seasonal forecasts are useful for those who understand them and particularly for those who have weather dependent businesss where seasonal forecasts can be of value over a decade.

Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 

I still say all seasonal models have an inbuilt bias built into them this is why height and temp anomalies differ so much when viewing any of the models ouput. A prime example would be one model showing  +high anomalies over Greenland and trough to our South, yet the temp anomalie shown for us ends up above average.

TomC
  • TomC
  • Advanced Member
09 November 2013 12:54:07

 

I still say all seasonal models have an inbuilt bias built into them this is why height and temp anomalies differ so much when viewing any of the models ouput. A prime example would be one model showing  +high anomalies over Greenland and trough to our South, yet the temp anomalie shown for us ends up above average.

Originally Posted by: Solar Cycles 

The models are intiated using the current conditions globally and predict forward a few months to try to predict which regions will be colder than average by a degree or more and which warmer. Global mean anomalies only change by a few tenths of a degree at the most on that timescale due to ENSO changes mainly. I don't see how there can be a bias unless the model misses a big ENSO event.

White Meadows
09 November 2013 15:31:46
What are all these mild or very mild winter indicators then? Now The mild November outlook by Met office has been canned will more forecasters jump ship and sit on the fence?? It's a crucial turning point for those producing a winter forecast. Regarding roger's posts yesterday - For pattern matchers a cool November could give us an average overall autumn reducing the chances of a mild dec/jan/ feb period. Especially when taking into account the cold spring-cold subsequent winter theory.
Gooner
Gooner
09 November 2013 18:52:23

ftp://140.90.213.161/autosnow/4kmNH/multisensor_4km_nh_snow_ice_latlon_2013312.png

Scandinavian snow cover slowly increases


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus

Banbury

North Oxfordshire

378 feet A S L



moomin75
09 November 2013 18:57:50

http://www.weatherweb.net/cfs/cfses4avmaxukweek5.gif

http://www.weatherweb.net/cfs/cfses4avmaxukweek6.gif

http://www.weatherweb.net/cfs/cfses4avmaxukweek7.gif

 

To avoid cherry picking Marcus, JFF JFF JFF JFF a mild lead up to Christmas and a mild December generally!

In other words, a complete turn around from last week which had sub-zero averages for weeks on end!

 


Witney, Oxfordshire

100m ASL

Matty H
09 November 2013 19:00:26
It's nothing new. This thread is easily the most pointless thread in this forum every year, but people like discussing it, so there it is.
Yate, Nr Bristol

TBFTEIARBSC

caldog
09 November 2013 19:20:52

It's nothing new. This thread is easily the most pointless thread in this forum every year, but people like discussing it, so there it is.

Originally Posted by: Matty H 

 

 I disagree with you.The whole point of this thread is (IMHO) to enjoy our hobby, and it certainly feels like the majority of us are achieving that, so I don't think it is pointless at all.

With all respect, there is no real need to throw the toys out of the pram if any suggestion is made of a sort of winter we would not like.

Lets enjoy this thread for what it is, a discussion. If we went by things we knew for certain, there probably wuld not be a thread, plus threads such as this do a lot to get people interested in our weather. I'm loving this thread, and intend to continue doing so! 

Back to topic, in several parts of Machester today there were some quite heavy hail storms. Accumulation was about an inch and quite a fair bit is still on the ground. In one area north of the city centre there was some snow mixed in (roughly about a mile north of the city centre). Freezing night last night and expecting one tonight too. Surely this must have quite an effect on the monthly temp average?

Justin W
09 November 2013 19:29:44

It's nothing new. This thread is easily the most pointless thread in this forum every year, but people like discussing it, so there it is.

Originally Posted by: Matty H 

 

Once, I would have disagreed with the Earl of Yate. But nowadays I'm in complete agreement: seasonal forecasts are pointless. None of us has a clue what is going to happen this winter. I hope it is a mild one but anybody who pretends that they have some kind of secret formula for forecasting the next three months is ... er ... mistaken.


Yo yo yo. 148-3 to the 3 to the 6 to the 9, representing the ABQ, what up, biatch?
David M Porter
09 November 2013 19:59:50

It's nothing new. This thread is easily the most pointless thread in this forum every year, but people like discussing it, so there it is.

Originally Posted by: Justin W 

 

Once, I would have disagreed with the Earl of Yate. But nowadays I'm in complete agreement: seasonal forecasts are pointless. None of us has a clue what is going to happen this winter. I hope it is a mild one but anybody who pretends that they have some kind of secret formula for forecasting the next three months is ... er ... mistaken.

Originally Posted by: Matty H 

Ian Brown certainly used to fall into that category.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"A body of men holding themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody." – Thomas Paine

Matty H
09 November 2013 20:11:04

It's nothing new. This thread is easily the most pointless thread in this forum every year, but people like discussing it, so there it is.

Originally Posted by: caldog 

 

 I disagree with you.The whole point of this thread is (IMHO) to enjoy our hobby, and it certainly feels like the majority of us are achieving that, so I don't think it is pointless at all.

With all respect, there is no real need to throw the toys out of the pram if any suggestion is made of a sort of winter we would not like.

Lets enjoy this thread for what it is, a discussion. If we went by things we knew for certain, there probably wuld not be a thread, plus threads such as this do a lot to get people interested in our weather. I'm loving this thread, and intend to continue doing so! 

Back to topic, in several parts of Machester today there were some quite heavy hail storms. Accumulation was about an inch and quite a fair bit is still on the ground. In one area north of the city centre there was some snow mixed in (roughly about a mile north of the city centre). Freezing night last night and expecting one tonight too. Surely this must have quite an effect on the monthly temp average?

Originally Posted by: Matty H 

You've misunderstood. I'm not saying it's pointless in terms of the forum and fun, but as any sort of useful forecasting thread it IS pointless. Doesn't mean it doesn't have a valid place here. I'm well versed in this place after 12 years 😉


Yate, Nr Bristol

TBFTEIARBSC

Gooner
09 November 2013 20:11:34

http://www.weatherweb.net/cfs/cfses4avmaxukweek5.gif

http://www.weatherweb.net/cfs/cfses4avmaxukweek6.gif

http://www.weatherweb.net/cfs/cfses4avmaxukweek7.gif

 

To avoid cherry picking Marcus, JFF JFF JFF JFF a mild lead up to Christmas and a mild December generally!

In other words, a complete turn around from last week which had sub-zero averages for weeks on end!

 

Originally Posted by: Gooner 

Indeed , but I aint posting those am I


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus

Banbury

North Oxfordshire

378 feet A S L



Matty H
09 November 2013 20:11:58

It's nothing new. This thread is easily the most pointless thread in this forum every year, but people like discussing it, so there it is.

Originally Posted by: David M Porter 

 

Once, I would have disagreed with the Earl of Yate. But nowadays I'm in complete agreement: seasonal forecasts are pointless. None of us has a clue what is going to happen this winter. I hope it is a mild one but anybody who pretends that they have some kind of secret formula for forecasting the next three months is ... er ... mistaken.

Originally Posted by: Justin W 

Ian Brown certainly used to fall into that category.

Originally Posted by: Matty H 

We'll see. At the moment he's restricted himself to a couple of posts in the UIA forum.


Yate, Nr Bristol

TBFTEIARBSC

moomin75
09 November 2013 20:17:33

It's nothing new. This thread is easily the most pointless thread in this forum every year, but people like discussing it, so there it is.

Originally Posted by: Matty H 

 

 I disagree with you.The whole point of this thread is (IMHO) to enjoy our hobby, and it certainly feels like the majority of us are achieving that, so I don't think it is pointless at all.

With all respect, there is no real need to throw the toys out of the pram if any suggestion is made of a sort of winter we would not like.

Lets enjoy this thread for what it is, a discussion. If we went by things we knew for certain, there probably wuld not be a thread, plus threads such as this do a lot to get people interested in our weather. I'm loving this thread, and intend to continue doing so! 

Back to topic, in several parts of Machester today there were some quite heavy hail storms. Accumulation was about an inch and quite a fair bit is still on the ground. In one area north of the city centre there was some snow mixed in (roughly about a mile north of the city centre). Freezing night last night and expecting one tonight too. Surely this must have quite an effect on the monthly temp average?

Originally Posted by: caldog 



You've misunderstood. I'm not saying it's pointless in terms of the forum and fun, but as any sort of useful forecasting thread it IS pointless. Doesn't mean it doesn't have a valid place here. I'm well versed in this place after 12 years Wink

Originally Posted by: Matty H 

Must admit Matty, I am starting to be inclined to agree with you, BUT that won't stop me producing my annual winter LRF in a few weeks' time.

I pretty much know where I am going with it, not that it really matters, because as you rightly point out, it's just guesswork really (but fun to produce all the same)!


Witney, Oxfordshire

100m ASL

Gusty
09 November 2013 20:20:50

Hi Marcus. 

I personally dont buy into all the long range crappy forecasting and feel that they are a complete waste of time and energy..however, and this is a genuine question.

Are these cold charts being consistently progged or are there occasional mild ones being progged that you don't post here on the forum ? 

If they are continually being progged cold then perhaps there may (just may) be some signal emerging in the far far reaches.


Steve - Folkestone, Kent

Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue

https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 

Join Kent Weather on Facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/stevewall69/ 



moomin75
09 November 2013 20:21:59

Hi Marcus. 

I personally dont buy into all the long range crappy forecasting and feel that they are a complete waste of time and energy..however, and this is a genuine question.

Are these cold charts being consistently progged or are there occasional mild ones being progged that you don't post here on the forum ? 

If they are continually being progged cold then perhaps there may (just may) be some signal emerging in the far far reaches.

Originally Posted by: Gooner 

No mate, these charts change with the weather!

 


Witney, Oxfordshire

100m ASL

Matty H
09 November 2013 20:22:27
I don't get how it is "fun". It's like creating a thread to guess when the next time you knock over a drink is, or when you next get a cold. That's not to put anyone down, I fully expect that plenty find random posts about what may or may not happen, fun. I'm actually considering just saving this thread and putting back on the forum each year to save people typing 😁 😝 😉 😉
Yate, Nr Bristol

TBFTEIARBSC

Gusty
09 November 2013 20:25:09

Hi Marcus. 

I personally dont buy into all the long range crappy forecasting and feel that they are a complete waste of time and energy..however, and this is a genuine question.

Are these cold charts being consistently progged or are there occasional mild ones being progged that you don't post here on the forum ? 

If they are continually being progged cold then perhaps there may (just may) be some signal emerging in the far far reaches.

Originally Posted by: Gusty 

No mate, these charts change with the weather!

 

Originally Posted by: Gooner 

Thanks Moomin..thought as much. 

I shall get my coat and return to the proper threads again such as Current Conditions and the Model Output (pre 240hrs of course !) 


Steve - Folkestone, Kent

Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue

https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 

Join Kent Weather on Facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/stevewall69/ 



Matty H
09 November 2013 20:26:10

Hi Marcus. 

I personally dont buy into all the long range crappy forecasting and feel that they are a complete waste of time and energy..however, and this is a genuine question.

Are these cold charts being consistently progged or are there occasional mild ones being progged that you don't post here on the forum ? 

If they are continually being progged cold then perhaps there may (just may) be some signal emerging in the far far reaches.

Originally Posted by: Gooner 

Hi Steve. Not meaning to speak for Marcus, but I do view them and they have been flipping backward and forward different scenarios for weeks and will no doubt continue to do so at that range 😄


Yate, Nr Bristol

TBFTEIARBSC

Gusty
09 November 2013 20:32:51

Hi Marcus. 

I personally dont buy into all the long range crappy forecasting and feel that they are a complete waste of time and energy..however, and this is a genuine question.

Are these cold charts being consistently progged or are there occasional mild ones being progged that you don't post here on the forum ? 

If they are continually being progged cold then perhaps there may (just may) be some signal emerging in the far far reaches.

Originally Posted by: Gusty 



Hi Steve. Not meaning to speak for Marcus, but I do view them and they have been flipping backward and forward different scenarios for weeks and will no doubt continue to do so at that range Smile

Originally Posted by: Gooner 

Thanks Matty. 

JFF = Just Flip Flopping

 

 


Steve - Folkestone, Kent

Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue

https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 

Join Kent Weather on Facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/stevewall69/ 



Matty H
09 November 2013 20:38:03

Hi Marcus. 

I personally dont buy into all the long range crappy forecasting and feel that they are a complete waste of time and energy..however, and this is a genuine question.

Are these cold charts being consistently progged or are there occasional mild ones being progged that you don't post here on the forum ? 

If they are continually being progged cold then perhaps there may (just may) be some signal emerging in the far far reaches.

Originally Posted by: Matty H 



Hi Steve. Not meaning to speak for Marcus, but I do view them and they have been flipping backward and forward different scenarios for weeks and will no doubt continue to do so at that range Smile

Originally Posted by: Gusty 

Thanks Matty. 

JFF = Just Flip Flopping

 

 

Originally Posted by: Gooner 

😂 😂

One thing we can accurately predict - if we are all buried under 18" of snow by mid January, everyone will be happy [sn_bsmil]


Yate, Nr Bristol

TBFTEIARBSC

caldog
09 November 2013 21:42:12

It's nothing new. This thread is easily the most pointless thread in this forum every year, but people like discussing it, so there it is.

Originally Posted by: Matty H 

 

 I disagree with you.The whole point of this thread is (IMHO) to enjoy our hobby, and it certainly feels like the majority of us are achieving that, so I don't think it is pointless at all.

With all respect, there is no real need to throw the toys out of the pram if any suggestion is made of a sort of winter we would not like.

Lets enjoy this thread for what it is, a discussion. If we went by things we knew for certain, there probably wuld not be a thread, plus threads such as this do a lot to get people interested in our weather. I'm loving this thread, and intend to continue doing so! 

Back to topic, in several parts of Machester today there were some quite heavy hail storms. Accumulation was about an inch and quite a fair bit is still on the ground. In one area north of the city centre there was some snow mixed in (roughly about a mile north of the city centre). Freezing night last night and expecting one tonight too. Surely this must have quite an effect on the monthly temp average?

Originally Posted by: caldog 



You've misunderstood. I'm not saying it's pointless in terms of the forum and fun, but as any sort of useful forecasting thread it IS pointless. Doesn't mean it doesn't have a valid place here. I'm well versed in this place after 12 years Wink

Originally Posted by: Matty H 

Ah right I see, my mistake. My apologqies! 

Matty H
09 November 2013 21:46:50

It's nothing new. This thread is easily the most pointless thread in this forum every year, but people like discussing it, so there it is.

Originally Posted by: caldog 

 

 I disagree with you.The whole point of this thread is (IMHO) to enjoy our hobby, and it certainly feels like the majority of us are achieving that, so I don't think it is pointless at all.

With all respect, there is no real need to throw the toys out of the pram if any suggestion is made of a sort of winter we would not like.

Lets enjoy this thread for what it is, a discussion. If we went by things we knew for certain, there probably wuld not be a thread, plus threads such as this do a lot to get people interested in our weather. I'm loving this thread, and intend to continue doing so! 

Back to topic, in several parts of Machester today there were some quite heavy hail storms. Accumulation was about an inch and quite a fair bit is still on the ground. In one area north of the city centre there was some snow mixed in (roughly about a mile north of the city centre). Freezing night last night and expecting one tonight too. Surely this must have quite an effect on the monthly temp average?

Originally Posted by: Matty H 



You've misunderstood. I'm not saying it's pointless in terms of the forum and fun, but as any sort of useful forecasting thread it IS pointless. Doesn't mean it doesn't have a valid place here. I'm well versed in this place after 12 years Wink

Originally Posted by: caldog 

Ah right I see, my mistake. My apologqies! 

Originally Posted by: Matty H 

No apologies required 👍


Yate, Nr Bristol

TBFTEIARBSC

Gooner
09 November 2013 21:55:36

Hi Marcus. 

I personally dont buy into all the long range crappy forecasting and feel that they are a complete waste of time and energy..however, and this is a genuine question.

Are these cold charts being consistently progged or are there occasional mild ones being progged that you don't post here on the forum ? 

If they are continually being progged cold then perhaps there may (just may) be some signal emerging in the far far reaches.

Originally Posted by: Gooner 

50/50 Steve

The one benefit from posting them on a regular basis would be to see if a trend had been spotted.

Lets be fair they are no more less accurate than the 384 charts

 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus

Banbury

North Oxfordshire

378 feet A S L



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