The Weather Outlook

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Gooner
20 October 2013 08:42:31

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/cfs/run2/cfsnh-0-2454.png?06

JFF JFF JFF

You would be happy with this

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/cfs/run2/cfsnh-0-2472.png?06


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus

Banbury

North Oxfordshire

378 feet A S L



Gavin P
20 October 2013 09:13:07

Thanks all.

Here's the fourth Winter 13/14 Round-Up video:

http://www.gavsweathervids.com

This one deals with ENSO in particular, but also with solar activity, Siberian snow cover and other stuff too.

Enjoy.


Rural West Northants 120m asl

Short, medium and long range weather forecast videos @ https://www.youtube.com/user/GavsWeatherVids

Gooner
20 October 2013 09:31:40

Thanks all.

Here's the fourth Winter 13/14 Round-Up video:

http://www.gavsweathervids.com

This one deals with ENSO in particular, but also with solar activity, Siberian snow cover and other stuff too.

Enjoy.

Originally Posted by: Gavin P 

Cheers Gav

Lets hope the cold pool increases


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus

Banbury

North Oxfordshire

378 feet A S L



roger63
  • roger63
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
21 October 2013 21:49:38

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/seasonal-to-decadal/gpc-outlooks/glob-seas-prob

Oh dear! October update of METO probability maps shows higher probability of above average winter temps over uk.

SEMerc
21 October 2013 22:07:28

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/seasonal-to-decadal/gpc-outlooks/glob-seas-prob

Oh dear! October update of METO probability maps shows higher probability of above average winter temps over uk.

Originally Posted by: roger63 

A good sign for cold weather lovers.

Snowfan
22 October 2013 10:34:56

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/seasonal-to-decadal/gpc-outlooks/glob-seas-prob

Oh dear! October update of METO probability maps shows higher probability of above average winter temps over uk.

Originally Posted by: SEMerc 

A good sign for cold weather lovers.

Originally Posted by: roger63 

 

Surely that would be a not-so-good sign...? 


"Let It Snow, Let It Snow, Let It Snow! "

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polarwind
22 October 2013 11:07:17

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/seasonal-to-decadal/gpc-outlooks/glob-seas-prob

Oh dear! October update of METO probability maps shows higher probability of above average winter temps over uk.

Originally Posted by: Snowfan 

A good sign for cold weather lovers.

Originally Posted by: SEMerc 

Surely that would be a not-so-good sign...? 

Originally Posted by: roger63 

He was in sarc mode, Snowfan.


"The professional standards of science must impose a framework of discipline and at the same time encourage rebellion against it". – Michael Polyani (1962)

"If climate science is sound and accurate, then it should be able to respond effectively to all the points raised…." - Grandad

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts". - Bertrand Russell

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman

"A consensus means that everyone agrees to say collectively what no one believes individually.”- Abba Eban, Israeli diplomat

Dave,Derby

Gooner
22 October 2013 13:30:11

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/seasonal-to-decadal/gpc-outlooks/glob-seas-prob

Oh dear! October update of METO probability maps shows higher probability of above average winter temps over uk.

Originally Posted by: roger63 

Of course that doesn't mean very cold spells are ruled out , that is over a 3 month period as we know


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus

Banbury

North Oxfordshire

378 feet A S L



Gooner
22 October 2013 14:35:37

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/cfs/run3/cfsnh-0-1440.png?12

JFF JFF JFF

Be happy with that in the run up


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus

Banbury

North Oxfordshire

378 feet A S L



doctormog
22 October 2013 14:54:25

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/seasonal-to-decadal/gpc-outlooks/glob-seas-prob

Oh dear! October update of METO probability maps shows higher probability of above average winter temps over uk.

Originally Posted by: roger63 

Combined with a higher heights to the north and to an extent the west. It seems these data use the SST predictions and 850 temperatures to calculate t2m anomalies as much as anything else. The picture seems less clear when you use all the data together, hence the MO statement that the data do not constitute a seasonal forecast.


roger63
  • roger63
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
22 October 2013 16:26:50

HERE IS AN UPDATE ON THE LATEST STATE OF WINTER INDICATORS

1.ENSO discussion.10th October update has prediction of ENSO neutral conditions persisting into the Northern Hemisphere spring.Many models predict a gradual increase of ENSO 3.4 index within neutral(-0.5 to +0.5C) from cooler than aveage to warmer conditionsas spring approaches.But overall the nain message is for a weak ENSO effect on European winter.

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/analysis_monitoring/enso_advisory/ensodisc.html

2.SST,s

The link is to  late May SST anomalues<gavin P has identified a tripole pattern which is supposewd to be linked to NAO - winters.

http://www.ospo.noaa.gov/data/sst/anomaly/2013/anomnight.5.27.2013.gif

 3.QBO.

This remains in steady positive territory +13.12Difficul to be sure that this will continue through into winter but seems likely to remain on the positive side suggesting stronger than average zonal flow.

http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/psd/data/correlation/qbo.data

4.Solar Activity.

A significant shift down in September from 66 in August to 39.It doesn,t look like another peak,but rather a slow decine to the solar minimum in 2019/20,starting cycle 25  which may well be weak enough to be a Maunder Minimum.No real evidenc of direct link from individual years Sunspot number to CET except around the solar minimum itself  

 http://www.ips.gov.au/Solar/1/6

5.CFS V2 Forecasts

Have moved from cool to warm or near average CET for DJF.(Ie all over the place)

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/CFSv2/CFSv2seasonal.shtml

 

6.METO probability maps (Dec-Feb).

 October maps resolutely  showing wnter DJF strongly warm over northern latitudes,with UK being higher than average.Precipitation near average  with pressure probability slightly below normal to north slightly above avreage to SW of UK and above average over Russia.No sign of northern blocking.

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/seasonal-to-decadal/gpc-outlooks/glob-seas-prob

 7.Seasonal pattern matching.

Cold signal from spring,no soignal from Summer.Autumn heading for warm/very warm,wet /very wet.Best indicator of winter cold is warm/wet combination.

 

Conclusion .

Indicators still mixed.However those of us who want cold should be inceasingly concerned by the warm signal from METO probability maps.A straw to clutch at.There is a build up of  ladybirds on my inside window frames.The level of build up is as yet lower than the huge build up experienced in November 2010 and weknow waht followed that !

 

 

Originally Posted by: roger63 

some faraway beach
22 October 2013 16:59:46

Many thanks for that round-up, roger.

As you say in your first post on this thread, there are plenty of decent winters associated with positive figures for the QBO. 1978/9 wasn't bad and, indeed, 2010/11 went positive in Aug, and double-digit positive in Oct, and stayed that way right through to May! So I'm not too concerned about that indicator being stongly positive on the last reading.

Also, as doc pointed out, the Met Office maps do actually show a weakly positive anomaly for pressure to our north west. As it happens, the latest CFS runs seem to indicate highly positive pressure anomalies over the Arctic, getting stronger as winter progresses.

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/CFSv2/htmls/glbz700e3Sea.html


2 miles west of Taunton, 32 m asl, where "milder air moving in from the west" becomes SNOWMAGEDDON.

Well, two or three times a decade it does, anyway.

Gooner
22 October 2013 17:10:13

Many thanks for that round-up, roger.

As you say in your first post on this thread, there are plenty of decent winters associated with positive figures for the QBO. 1978/9 wasn't bad and, indeed, 2010/11 went positive in Aug, and double-digit positive in Oct, and stayed that way right through to May! So I'm not too concerned about that indicator being stongly positive on the last reading.

Also, as doc pointed out, the Met Office maps do actually show a weakly positive anomaly for pressure to our north west. As it happens, the latest CFS runs seem to indicate highly positive pressure anomalies over the Arctic, getting stronger as winter progresses.

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/CFSv2/htmls/glbz700e3Sea.html

Originally Posted by: some faraway beach 

Gav has a very good bit on QBO's in his vid


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus

Banbury

North Oxfordshire

378 feet A S L



some faraway beach
22 October 2013 18:59:23

Thanks, Gooner. But I'm too hard of hearing to understand anything being said on video/radio etc. (or conversation in general, to be honest).

Any chance of a summary of the conclusions (if any)? I get the impression that it's an expression of the connection between the stratosphere and the level of atmosphere down here from which we get our weather. So, ultimately, to forecast the QBO (or events in the stratosphere), you need to forecast the weather down here, which rather takes you back to square 1.

But I'm all for any insights into how it might be better understood.


2 miles west of Taunton, 32 m asl, where "milder air moving in from the west" becomes SNOWMAGEDDON.

Well, two or three times a decade it does, anyway.

White Meadows
22 October 2013 21:32:07
A little off topic but interestingly I note john major's statements today about energy prices specifically reference a 'cold spell' this winter.

He's either misinformed regarding the MO output today.... Or the government had received news not available to the public.

The Beast from the East
22 October 2013 22:46:44

A little off topic but interestingly I note john major's statements today about energy prices specifically reference a 'cold spell' this winter.

He's either misinformed regarding the MO output today.... Or the government had received news not available to the public.

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 

I saw that as well. He actually said a cold winter is "likely".  Based on what, I have no idea but it is probably just speculation to help promote his windfall tax plan

 


Purley, Surrey, 70m ASL

"We have some alternative facts for you"

Kelly-Ann Conway - former special adviser to the President

Matty H
22 October 2013 22:52:04

A little off topic but interestingly I note john major's statements today about energy prices specifically reference a 'cold spell' this winter.

He's either misinformed regarding the MO output today.... Or the government had received news not available to the public.

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 

I saw that as well. He actually said a cold winter is "likely".  Based on what, I have no idea but it is probably just speculation to help promote his windfall tax plan

 

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 

Never ceases to amaze me every year how comments from anyone who says any one type of weather is 'likely' in any given season are even commented on, other than to mock them wholeheartedly.


Yate, Nr Bristol

TBFTEIARBSC

Rob K
23 October 2013 00:18:07

Well you could argue that a cold spell this winter is extremely likely. Even the mildest winter usually has a "cold spell" of sorts.

Hence any LRF, if vague enough, can be claimed to be correct(ish) after the event... 


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl

"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

roger63
  • roger63
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
23 October 2013 18:59:00

Latest CFS update has incerdible warmth over west Russia for January( neutral over UK).What synoptics would produce that outcome?

pdiddy
23 October 2013 19:03:50

Latest CFS update has incerdible warmth over west Russia for January( neutral over UK).What synoptics would produce that outcome?

Originally Posted by: roger63 

You need to post the chart Roger as these update frequently.

Chalkie
23 October 2013 19:12:46

Latest CFS update has incerdible warmth over west Russia for January( neutral over UK).What synoptics would produce that outcome?

Originally Posted by: pdiddy 

You need to post the chart Roger as these update frequently.

Originally Posted by: roger63 

 

Another CFS update....12z 23/10

Cold Russia; average to mild UK?

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/cfs/run/monthly/runs/2013102212/cfsnh-8-1-2014.png?12

Joe

Gooner
23 October 2013 19:59:51

Latest CFS update has incerdible warmth over west Russia for January( neutral over UK).What synoptics would produce that outcome?

Originally Posted by: Chalkie 

You need to post the chart Roger as these update frequently.

Originally Posted by: pdiddy 

 

Another CFS update....12z 23/10

Cold Russia; average to mild UK?

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/cfs/run/monthly/runs/2013102212/cfsnh-8-1-2014.png?12

Joe

Originally Posted by: roger63 

Followed by a bitter Feb

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/cfs/run/monthly/runs/2013102218/cfs-8-2-2014.png?18


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus

Banbury

North Oxfordshire

378 feet A S L



Chalkie
23 October 2013 20:10:33

Another CFS update....12z 23/10

Cold Russia; average to mild UK?

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/cfs/run/monthly/runs/2013102212/cfsnh-8-1-2014.png?12

Joe

Originally Posted by: Gooner 

Followed by a bitter Feb

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/cfs/run/monthly/runs/2013102218/cfs-8-2-2014.png?18

Originally Posted by: Chalkie 

 

Yep, most definitely... I'd take the "mild blip" in January just to see THAT anomaly in February!!!

Joe

nsrobins
24 October 2013 08:13:36

JFF is fine, but CFS ultra long range anomolies continue to wobble around like a really wobbly thing.
There is very little value in daily analysis of these charts, but if you can keep a secret, I am rather inclined to have a peek now and again - just for fun LOL.


Neil

Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)

Stormchaser, Member TORRO

Gooner
24 October 2013 12:24:51

JFF is fine, but CFS ultra long range anomolies continue to wobble around like a really wobbly thing.
There is very little value in daily analysis of these charts, but if you can keep a secret, I am rather inclined to have a peek now and again - just for fun LOL.

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 

I am sure you are not alone Neil , though few would be as brave as you to admit it


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus

Banbury

North Oxfordshire

378 feet A S L



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