The Weather Outlook

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Saint Snow
31 December 2024 12:26:14

An interesting paragraph from the Met Office on their latest (snow and ice) warning for the far north of the Scottish mainland.

“Strong winds may exacerbate impacts, particularly across the areas affected by snow. Blizzard conditions are possible, especially over high ground and across much of Sutherland and Caithness. Powerline icing is possible where blizzard conditions occur.”

That’s one way to see in the New Year!

https://weather.metoffice.gov.uk/warnings-and-advice/uk-warnings#?date=2025-01-01&id=4981c628-d216-4bac-9fb4-a0e58b8effcf 

Originally Posted by: doctormog 

Sinking southwards overnight NYE into NYD, too. By the evening of NYD, I'd expect the Central Belt to be under a covering.

I'll be mooching around the traffic cams and the Ben Nevis cams from time to time (looking depressingly snowless at present... but that will soon change!)


Martin

Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)

A TWO addict since 14/12/01

"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."

Aneurin Bevan

Rob K
31 December 2024 12:52:15
I'm sure the models only a couple of days ago were showing massive amounts of snowfall across northern Scotland from yesterday morning right through today and into tomorrow. It's currently just raining even on top of the Cairngorms. Total fail at 48 hours!
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl

"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

Rob K
31 December 2024 12:55:09

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/charts/ukv/03_84_snow_depth.png

This is just insane. Got to be a red level warning for that top left corner surely? 70cm+ falling over only a few days.

UserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: Quantum 

And this is what I mean - the chart has updated to the current one but when Q posted this it would have been three days earlier, i.e. a chart for this afternoon. In reality there is virtually no snow up there at all. The models have really overplayed it.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl

"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

Rob K
31 December 2024 13:03:32
UserPostedImage

UKV reckons there should currently be 40-50cm of snow across the far north of Scotland. Not even close. A light dusting in the far north is all.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl

"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

doctormog
31 December 2024 14:22:04

I'm sure the models only a couple of days ago were showing massive amounts of snowfall across northern Scotland from yesterday morning right through today and into tomorrow. It's currently just raining even on top of the Cairngorms. Total fail at 48 hours!

Originally Posted by: Rob K 

No, it was always meant to snow, then rain and then snow again. Hence the flood warnings. Lots of snow fell then the milder air moved in (as forecast) and it melted again. Some of the models showed the cumulative snowfall as if it had not melted. 

As for the UKV snow charts there about as reliable as their minima charts which randomly throw out ridiculously low local temperatures. They also never show any snow cover here, no matter what, or have never in the past even for example when we had a week of snow at the end of November. It’s a tricky thing to predict, but some of the models (e.g. UKV) are appallingly bad at it even at short notice.

Edit: See my comment yesterday evening re. Cairngorm. It will be white again before the bells.


Tim A
31 December 2024 15:43:07
I was having a random conversation with Chat GPT about short range models and it told me to ignore snow depth charts as absolute values and use them instead as a tool to identify which areas have the highest risk of lying snow. Might be good advice. 
Tim

NW Leeds

187m asl

 My PWS 

Matty H
31 December 2024 23:27:27

And this is what I mean - the chart has updated to the current one but when Q posted this it would have been three days earlier, i.e. a chart for this afternoon. In reality there is virtually no snow up there at all. The models have really overplayed it.

Originally Posted by: Rob K 

Indeed, and here’s us mooching about something that appears far more marginal across England 5 days away. Highlights the folly of model watching 


Yate, Nr Bristol

TBFTEIARBSC

Lionel Hutz
31 December 2024 23:46:51

Indeed, and here’s us mooching about something that appears far more marginal across England 5 days away. Highlights the folly of model watching 

Originally Posted by: Matty H 

I think that the issue is not so much model watching as taking any single model as gospel(usually because it's the outcome you want). Currently, there are a number of options possible for the weekend. Some suggest snow for many, some don't. Only time will tell which ones are correct. My gut is a sludgy mess(except over higher ground perhaps) but who knows? A slight tweak and many of us could have a snow fest.


Lionel Hutz

Nr.Waterford , S E Ireland

68m ASL



doctormog
01 January 2025 11:26:10
The Met Office have now issued a warning for snow for Saturday to Monday for a large swathe of the country. The wording reflects the situation very well:

“Outbreaks of rain spreading northeastwards later on Saturday and overnight into Sunday will likely be preceded by a spell of snow on its northern flank. Whilst there is a fair bit of uncertainty as to how far north this may spread, and how long any snow will last, significant accumulations of snow are possible, especially (but not exclusively) on hills. Currently, parts of the Midlands, Wales and northern England are most at risk of disruption, where 5cm or more could accumulate fairly widely, with perhaps as much as 20-30 cm over high ground of Wales and/or the Pennines. This, accompanied by strengthening winds, may lead to drifting of lying snow.

In addition, as milder air attempts to move northwards into southern and central areas, snow may turn to a spell of freezing rain for a time, adding to the risk of ice. If milder air is able to spread more bodily northwards, any snow in southern parts of the warning area may be relatively short-lived before turning to rain.

Given the uncertainties, it is quite likely this warning area and start/end times will be refined over the coming days as confidence increases in areas most likely to be impacted.”

https://weather.metoffice.gov.uk/warnings-and-advice/uk-warnings#?date=2025-01-06 


nsrobins
01 January 2025 11:36:05
Thanks Michael. The wording in the warning summarises the situation better than I could. Although the ‘trend’ as of this morning is moving away from a widespread event, there’s enough uncertainty to preclude a definitive statement of who and where and how much.
Neil

Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)

Stormchaser, Member TORRO

Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
01 January 2025 11:57:27
Thanks Doc.  We have a yellow warning of ice from 4pm today to tomorrow morning and a yellow warning of snow from Saturday through to Monday.  It’s quite early for the snow warning to go that far out, so it could change.  They’re having a tough time forecasting from the models of late but it’s better to err on the side of caution.  
Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.

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Bolty
01 January 2025 15:16:32
Not so much snow, but I get a feeling ice could be a real issue tonight. Heavy rain has completely sodden the groud and turned roads into rivers. Now that is going to freeze solid across much of the UK over the next few hours. I'm actually surprised we've only got a yellow warning for it, to be honest.

I certainly don't envy those who have to be up early tomorrow, put it that way.


Scott

Blackrod, Lancashire (4 miles south of Chorley) at 156m asl.

My weather station 

The Beast from the East
01 January 2025 15:31:45

Not so much snow, but I get a feeling ice could be a real issue tonight. Heavy rain has completely sodden the groud and turned roads into rivers. Now that is going to freeze solid across much of the UK over the next few hours. I'm actually surprised we've only got a yellow warning for it, to be honest.

I certainly don't envy those who have to be up early tomorrow, put it that way.

Originally Posted by: Bolty 

Fortunately we wont have that problem down here. And hopefully by tomorrow night most of the wetness would have dried away. Nothing worse than frozen car door handles! 


Purley, Surrey, 70m ASL

"We have some alternative facts for you"

Kelly-Ann Conway - former special adviser to the President

doctormog
02 January 2025 11:30:00
The Met Office have now updated their warnings to reflect the latest developments in this evolving situation.

https://weather.metoffice.gov.uk/warnings-and-advice/uk-warnings#?date=2025-01-02 


doctormog
02 January 2025 13:30:53
That’s an interesting little feature heading down from Iceland. It should in theory bring either a band of sleet or snow south across this part of the country tonight.

https://www.sat24.com/de-de/continent/eu#selectedLayer=euInfra 


howham
02 January 2025 14:22:43
Yes Michael, I think the Met Office text forecast referred to something more organised overnight.  Got to love a northerly here.
Quantum
  • Quantum
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
02 January 2025 22:55:32
Its further south on the 18Z lot. My main concern is that easterly winds off a relatively mild sea could turn alot of it slushy even well to the north of the front.


25/26 (850hpa temp) 11 days snow/sleet falling

18/11 (-4) 19/11 (-6) 20/11 (-6) 01/01 (-7) 04/01 (-10) 10/01 (-7) 11/01 (-3) 30/01 (-1) 13/02 (-6) 15/02 (-4) 18/02 (-6)

24/25 10d

18/11 (-6) 19/11 (-6) 23/11 (-2) 22/12 (-5) 04/01 (-5) 05/01 (0)14/02 (0) 15/02 (0)12/03 (-6) 13/03 (-6)

23/24 8d

29/11 (-6) 30/11 (-6) 02/12 (-5) 03/12 (-5) 04/12 (-3) 16/01 (-3) 18/01 (-8)08/02 (-5)

22/23 7d

18/12 (-1)06/03 (-6) 08/03 (-8) 09/03 (-6) 10/03 (-8) 11/03 (-5) 14/03 (-6)

21/22 12d

Retron
03 January 2025 05:58:41
Today's "GFS jackpot" award goes to Shap. By the looks of it, a great place to go to if you want snow... just don't bank on leaving any time soon!

That's just under 2ft of snow in just over a day, although due to compaction etc the eventual depth would be less.

https://i.postimg.cc/GmZ7KpSP/shap.jpg 

UserPostedImage


Leysdown, north Kent
Tim A
03 January 2025 06:18:45
GFS is a bit further North than the 18z, on the 18z the jackpot was around Harrogate. 

GFS and ECM are more progressive than UKMO and UKV with rain much further  North Sunday mid morning. Interestingly GFS ensembles have it even further North than the Op.

For me chart of the day is UKV.  Even by 9pm snow line still North Midlands. West Sheffield jackpot but all eastern upslopes amazing totals.

UserPostedImage

 

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage


Tim

NW Leeds

187m asl

 My PWS 

Quantum
  • Quantum
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
03 January 2025 07:12:06

GFS is a bit further North than the 18z, on the 18z the jackpot was around Harrogate. 

GFS and ECM are more progressive than UKMO and UKV with rain much further  North Sunday mid morning. Interestingly GFS ensembles have it even further North than the Op.

For me chart of the day is UKV.  Even by 9pm snow line still North Midlands. West Sheffield jackpot but all eastern upslopes amazing totals.

 

UserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: Tim A 

One thing that should be highlighted about the UKV: the 3Z UKV is MUCH further south than the 0Z. The 0Z seems to be more in line with the GFS0Z which bodes well for the 6Z set this morning (maybe?)


25/26 (850hpa temp) 11 days snow/sleet falling

18/11 (-4) 19/11 (-6) 20/11 (-6) 01/01 (-7) 04/01 (-10) 10/01 (-7) 11/01 (-3) 30/01 (-1) 13/02 (-6) 15/02 (-4) 18/02 (-6)

24/25 10d

18/11 (-6) 19/11 (-6) 23/11 (-2) 22/12 (-5) 04/01 (-5) 05/01 (0)14/02 (0) 15/02 (0)12/03 (-6) 13/03 (-6)

23/24 8d

29/11 (-6) 30/11 (-6) 02/12 (-5) 03/12 (-5) 04/12 (-3) 16/01 (-3) 18/01 (-8)08/02 (-5)

22/23 7d

18/12 (-1)06/03 (-6) 08/03 (-8) 09/03 (-6) 10/03 (-8) 11/03 (-5) 14/03 (-6)

21/22 12d

Quantum
  • Quantum
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
03 January 2025 07:28:28
First look at the 6Zs.

ICON-D2 6Z looks a bit further south to me on the 0Z. Rapid thaw line seems to be about 50 miles further SW.

I say 'rapid thaw line' rather than rain/snow because its easier to see. The rain/snow line on some models is the same as the rapid thaw line (where temps and dews rise rapidly) but some models have a zone of incongruence where the surface is still cold (no rapid thaw) but snow is not falling due to a thin warm layer. There is a risk of ice pellets or freezing rain in this zone.

I should add there is very little difference between the 6Z and the 3Z (both are an improvement on the 0Z). Maybe the 6Z is 2-5 miles further north (yes its literally a pixel or two further north) but the air is also colder on the northern side so its not really  a downgrade.


25/26 (850hpa temp) 11 days snow/sleet falling

18/11 (-4) 19/11 (-6) 20/11 (-6) 01/01 (-7) 04/01 (-10) 10/01 (-7) 11/01 (-3) 30/01 (-1) 13/02 (-6) 15/02 (-4) 18/02 (-6)

24/25 10d

18/11 (-6) 19/11 (-6) 23/11 (-2) 22/12 (-5) 04/01 (-5) 05/01 (0)14/02 (0) 15/02 (0)12/03 (-6) 13/03 (-6)

23/24 8d

29/11 (-6) 30/11 (-6) 02/12 (-5) 03/12 (-5) 04/12 (-3) 16/01 (-3) 18/01 (-8)08/02 (-5)

22/23 7d

18/12 (-1)06/03 (-6) 08/03 (-8) 09/03 (-6) 10/03 (-8) 11/03 (-5) 14/03 (-6)

21/22 12d

Tim A
03 January 2025 07:36:33
We are now in that range that we can see regular Icon updates much before the traditional mid term model.  
Tim

NW Leeds

187m asl

 My PWS 

Tim A
03 January 2025 07:41:34
If UKV is correct would expect an amber warning for parts of Northern Wales and then Pennine areas but we know it can go off on one with snow depths. Amber warning could be North Pennines if GFS and ECM are right. I would probably leave it till tomorrow if I was the Met Office (or fudge the risk matrix so it's still yellow today) 
Tim

NW Leeds

187m asl

 My PWS 

Quantum
  • Quantum
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
03 January 2025 07:43:33

If UKV is correct would expect an amber warning for parts of Northern Wales and then Pennine areas but we know it can go off on one with snow depths. Amber warning could be North Pennines if GFS and ECM are right. I would probably leave it till tomorrow if I was the Met Office (or fudge the risk matrix so it's still yellow today) 

Originally Posted by: Tim A 

Not under Metoffice remit but the place likely to do the best is some parts of central Ireland that get pretty much 2 days of constant heavy snow.


25/26 (850hpa temp) 11 days snow/sleet falling

18/11 (-4) 19/11 (-6) 20/11 (-6) 01/01 (-7) 04/01 (-10) 10/01 (-7) 11/01 (-3) 30/01 (-1) 13/02 (-6) 15/02 (-4) 18/02 (-6)

24/25 10d

18/11 (-6) 19/11 (-6) 23/11 (-2) 22/12 (-5) 04/01 (-5) 05/01 (0)14/02 (0) 15/02 (0)12/03 (-6) 13/03 (-6)

23/24 8d

29/11 (-6) 30/11 (-6) 02/12 (-5) 03/12 (-5) 04/12 (-3) 16/01 (-3) 18/01 (-8)08/02 (-5)

22/23 7d

18/12 (-1)06/03 (-6) 08/03 (-8) 09/03 (-6) 10/03 (-8) 11/03 (-5) 14/03 (-6)

21/22 12d

Saint Snow
03 January 2025 09:24:59
Very slight encouraging signs that the period of post-snow rain for this neck of the woods could be briefer than was showing yesterday. Some models actually have it very short.

I just want to keep the covering for the cool-down when the low exits (even if it's just an icy pastiche of proper fluffy snow)


Martin

Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)

A TWO addict since 14/12/01

"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."

Aneurin Bevan

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