The Weather Outlook

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Quantum
18 December 2024 13:29:51

Where is "here" – what is your location?

Originally Posted by: Downpour 

By here I just mean the whole UK. The tropospheric polar vortex nearby to the east of us and ridging in Canada and Greenland gives us the best chance of a very cold outbreak from the NNE.

That doesn't mean it will happen though as there are lots of other things that need to be right too. The upshot is that I'm seeing potential for NYE onwards for cold weather in the UK.


25/26 (850hpa temp) 11 days snow/sleet falling

18/11 (-4) 19/11 (-6) 20/11 (-6) 01/01 (-7) 04/01 (-10) 10/01 (-7) 11/01 (-3) 30/01 (-1) 13/02 (-6) 15/02 (-4) 18/02 (-6)

24/25 10d

18/11 (-6) 19/11 (-6) 23/11 (-2) 22/12 (-5) 04/01 (-5) 05/01 (0)14/02 (0) 15/02 (0)12/03 (-6) 13/03 (-6)

23/24 8d

29/11 (-6) 30/11 (-6) 02/12 (-5) 03/12 (-5) 04/12 (-3) 16/01 (-3) 18/01 (-8)08/02 (-5)

22/23 7d

18/12 (-1)06/03 (-6) 08/03 (-8) 09/03 (-6) 10/03 (-8) 11/03 (-5) 14/03 (-6)

21/22 12d

Saint Snow
18 December 2024 15:14:39

Noon Christmas Day.

UserPostedImage

The perfect Summer synoptic that rarely show up in June or July when we want it the most.

Originally Posted by: idj20 

Aint that true!


Martin

Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)

A TWO addict since 14/12/01

"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."

Aneurin Bevan

doctormog
18 December 2024 16:36:31
The latest (12z) GFS op run has t850s of +10°C here and t2m max at 9°C on Christmas Day. Should I go up a hill for a bit more warmth? 🤣

Before then it looks like a pretty mobile setup with cooler conditions tomorrow then milder then cooler and potentially very unsettled over the weekend.


Quantum
18 December 2024 16:42:46
12Z looks better for cold near the new year. Its really annoying that the remenants of the tropospheric polar vortex over canada atm stick around right until after the 27th where they are still languishing around greenland. If it wasn't for that I suspect the trajectory would be even better.


25/26 (850hpa temp) 11 days snow/sleet falling

18/11 (-4) 19/11 (-6) 20/11 (-6) 01/01 (-7) 04/01 (-10) 10/01 (-7) 11/01 (-3) 30/01 (-1) 13/02 (-6) 15/02 (-4) 18/02 (-6)

24/25 10d

18/11 (-6) 19/11 (-6) 23/11 (-2) 22/12 (-5) 04/01 (-5) 05/01 (0)14/02 (0) 15/02 (0)12/03 (-6) 13/03 (-6)

23/24 8d

29/11 (-6) 30/11 (-6) 02/12 (-5) 03/12 (-5) 04/12 (-3) 16/01 (-3) 18/01 (-8)08/02 (-5)

22/23 7d

18/12 (-1)06/03 (-6) 08/03 (-8) 09/03 (-6) 10/03 (-8) 11/03 (-5) 14/03 (-6)

21/22 12d

Brian Gaze
18 December 2024 18:06:41

12Z looks better for cold near the new year. Its really annoying that the remenants of the tropospheric polar vortex over canada atm stick around right until after the 27th where they are still languishing around greenland. If it wasn't for that I suspect the trajectory would be even better.

Originally Posted by: Quantum 

The 06Z update was a significant "downgrade" for cold on the London grid point used by TWO. 

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Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

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CField
18 December 2024 18:13:58
Does seem to be a pattern change after Xmas...but until those current gremlins " heights to south west" and " lows northern Scendinavia not sinking south" disappear ( looking unlikely)I think only the northern half of UK are at real risk of a decent cold snap.
Favourite snowstorm

Famous channel low

Dec 31st 1978

Hastings East Sussex

Foot of level snow severe drifting

Next day max temp -4 degrees Celsius

nsrobins
18 December 2024 20:13:08
If it’s of significance the 60N zonal winds are now forecast to drop significantly towards the end of Dec. A quick reduction in zonal wind is sometimes associated with, and in part a sign of, a SSW.
Neil

Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)

Stormchaser, Member TORRO

Gandalf The White
18 December 2024 21:11:26

If it’s of significance the 60N zonal winds are now forecast to drop significantly towards the end of Dec. A quick reduction in zonal wind is sometimes associated with, and in part a sign of, a SSW.

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 

Is the drop significant?  Looking at the ECM chart for 10hPa winds the mean sits above the top decile over Xmas before dropping back towards the mean.  I’m far from an expert on this but that doesn’t look sufficient as it stands?


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



Brian Gaze
18 December 2024 21:16:34
Zonal winds from the GEFS 12Z

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GEFS35

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Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan

DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
19 December 2024 08:16:01
WX temps: Little change over the next two weeks. Temps over Europe above norm, especially in the east, continuing so. Freezing weather in Russia continues to shrink back to the east; just a hint that Britain may become marginally colder from the north. Various areas of rain in week 1 from Britain SE-wards to Turkey, Spain and Ukraine dry. In week 2 the Atlantic revives an there is heavy rain in the far west - Portugal, Ireland, Scotland, Norway.

GFS Op 00z: NW-lies for Britain today under influence of LP Scandinavia, relaxing briefly before new LP arrives Sun 22nd 985mb Denmark with NW gales back in force. HP then comes in from the SW - by Xmas day 1035mb E France, a little further S than shown yesterday, still close enough to keep British weather settled but SW-lies are stronger so frost and fog less likely. This HP persists to Sun 29th, intensifying for a while, before LPs from Iceland and mid Atlantic combine and develop as a N-S trough covering Britain 975mb Wed 1st, importing rather cold air from N Scandinavia. This deepens 950mb (sic) Fri 3rd E Scotland still importing air from the NE. A lot of snow on the hills?

ECM: similar to GFS but HP not so intense, allowing more of a W-ly rather than SW-ly for the w/e Sat 28th.

GEM - similar GFS but HP retains its strength, positioned a little further north and dominates Britain to Sat 28th

GEFS - as yesterday, temps down -up - down to Tue 24th, a mild period over Christmas to Sun 29th, then mean returns to norm with a good spread of outcomes above and below. Mainly dry in England to Sun 29th, wetter or snowier in Scotland, then increasing chances of rain or snow everywhere with some big totals in N& W. 


War is God's way of teaching Americans geography - Ambrose Bierce

Chichester 12m asl

19 December 2024 09:10:30
A possible frost next year on this mornings charts
Berkshire
Ally Pally Snowman
19 December 2024 11:07:20

A possible frost next year on this mornings charts

Originally Posted by: The Dub Version 

This is the reality for the South that even when the Canadian vortex gets shunted over to Siberia very few ensembles bring a cold spell. It may turn average or even stay mild. At least it's pretty dry is the best that can be said.


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Gandalf The White
19 December 2024 11:40:29

A possible frost next year on this mornings charts

Originally Posted by: The Dub Version 

Spare a thought for Churchill, on the western shore of Hudson Bay, where the forecast for New Year’s Eve on the latest 06z GFS run is rain and temperatures above zero, and an 850hPa anomaly of +20c.  Don’t look at the anomaly over Hudson Bay - it’s off the scale.


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



ballamar
19 December 2024 12:05:58
Always found P10 to be most accurate in GEFS
19 December 2024 13:09:22

This is the reality for the South that even when the Canadian vortex gets shunted over to Siberia very few ensembles bring a cold spell. It may turn average or even stay mild. At least it's pretty dry is the best that can be said.

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

Theres always a hope that LRFs that have gone mild winter, go spectacularly wrong..

We live in hope.

No major snow since the 2xBFTE 2018. 


Berkshire
Quantum
19 December 2024 13:17:39

This is the reality for the South that even when the Canadian vortex gets shunted over to Siberia very few ensembles bring a cold spell. It may turn average or even stay mild. At least it's pretty dry is the best that can be said.

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

Keep watching around NYE, my guess is that we will start to see some good ensembles soon.


25/26 (850hpa temp) 11 days snow/sleet falling

18/11 (-4) 19/11 (-6) 20/11 (-6) 01/01 (-7) 04/01 (-10) 10/01 (-7) 11/01 (-3) 30/01 (-1) 13/02 (-6) 15/02 (-4) 18/02 (-6)

24/25 10d

18/11 (-6) 19/11 (-6) 23/11 (-2) 22/12 (-5) 04/01 (-5) 05/01 (0)14/02 (0) 15/02 (0)12/03 (-6) 13/03 (-6)

23/24 8d

29/11 (-6) 30/11 (-6) 02/12 (-5) 03/12 (-5) 04/12 (-3) 16/01 (-3) 18/01 (-8)08/02 (-5)

22/23 7d

18/12 (-1)06/03 (-6) 08/03 (-8) 09/03 (-6) 10/03 (-8) 11/03 (-5) 14/03 (-6)

21/22 12d

Jiries
19 December 2024 15:09:20

Theres always a hope that LRFs that have gone mild winter, go spectacularly wrong..

We live in hope.

No major snow since the 2xBFTE 2018. 

Originally Posted by: The Dub Version 

Never read or bother or get worked up with long range forecast as all are virtually hopeless and very wrong all the time.  If they predicting mild winter we should be seeing temps well over 10 to 15C during 90 days of winter. Latest ensembles show yo-yo temps so not very mild all the time.  

Ally Pally Snowman
19 December 2024 15:19:10

Keep watching around NYE, my guess is that we will start to see some good ensembles soon.

Originally Posted by: Quantum 

Would be nice just to get some decent ensembles to look at over Christmas.  


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Taylor1740
19 December 2024 16:23:29
Seems to be a complete lack of cold around not just in the UK but all of the Northern hemisphere with Winter really struggling to get going.

Let's hope it's a back-loaded Winter then even though most LRFs pointed towards more of a front loaded Winter.


NW Leeds - 150m amsl
squish
19 December 2024 16:36:11
There is much more cold around to our north on the 12z's past +168 thus far. (GFS/GEM) with more pressure on the euro high from the NW.

Mighty need to look north as we move towards new year. And quite a stormy weekend coming up again! ( 2 week cycle)


D.E.W on Dartmoor. 300m asl
Brian Gaze
19 December 2024 16:36:30
The 30 day programmatic analogues were often favouring a mild or very mild winter. Whether or not you put any stock in these is a different question.

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/premium/weather-analogues.aspx?dt=30days 


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 

"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan

Quantum
19 December 2024 16:46:14
Have a look at the 12Z GFS for NYE.


25/26 (850hpa temp) 11 days snow/sleet falling

18/11 (-4) 19/11 (-6) 20/11 (-6) 01/01 (-7) 04/01 (-10) 10/01 (-7) 11/01 (-3) 30/01 (-1) 13/02 (-6) 15/02 (-4) 18/02 (-6)

24/25 10d

18/11 (-6) 19/11 (-6) 23/11 (-2) 22/12 (-5) 04/01 (-5) 05/01 (0)14/02 (0) 15/02 (0)12/03 (-6) 13/03 (-6)

23/24 8d

29/11 (-6) 30/11 (-6) 02/12 (-5) 03/12 (-5) 04/12 (-3) 16/01 (-3) 18/01 (-8)08/02 (-5)

22/23 7d

18/12 (-1)06/03 (-6) 08/03 (-8) 09/03 (-6) 10/03 (-8) 11/03 (-5) 14/03 (-6)

21/22 12d

doctormog
19 December 2024 16:46:20
I think the signs of colder conditions around the New Year period are strengthening with each set of model runs recently. That could all change of course but the 12z GFS op run certainly points in the colder direction around this time point.
Quantum
19 December 2024 16:52:18

I think the signs of colder conditions around the New Year period are strengthening with each set of model runs recently. That could all change of course but the 12z GFS op run certainly points in the colder direction around this time point.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 

I think the ensembles are underspread. The anomoly over canada is so huge and so high confidence that I can't see a little chunk of cold core low in the greenland area scuppering the whole thing. I kinda feel that chunk of cold core low may delay or accelerate cold conditions depending on where it goes but ultimately we are seeing a large scale pattern change that is going to become very favourable for cold conditions. I'm still thinking around NYE is when we should be watching.


25/26 (850hpa temp) 11 days snow/sleet falling

18/11 (-4) 19/11 (-6) 20/11 (-6) 01/01 (-7) 04/01 (-10) 10/01 (-7) 11/01 (-3) 30/01 (-1) 13/02 (-6) 15/02 (-4) 18/02 (-6)

24/25 10d

18/11 (-6) 19/11 (-6) 23/11 (-2) 22/12 (-5) 04/01 (-5) 05/01 (0)14/02 (0) 15/02 (0)12/03 (-6) 13/03 (-6)

23/24 8d

29/11 (-6) 30/11 (-6) 02/12 (-5) 03/12 (-5) 04/12 (-3) 16/01 (-3) 18/01 (-8)08/02 (-5)

22/23 7d

18/12 (-1)06/03 (-6) 08/03 (-8) 09/03 (-6) 10/03 (-8) 11/03 (-5) 14/03 (-6)

21/22 12d

Quantum
19 December 2024 16:54:48
https://modeles16.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2024121912/gfsnh-15-306.png?12 

Look at those bonkers T anomolies over Canada at the 850hpa level. Sooner or later its going to end up with a monster ridge over greenland which then will propagate down to the surface. The position of the ridge is self amplifying where warm air advected into E canada strengthens the 'dome' and weakens the jet. Its a great pattern with so much potential.


25/26 (850hpa temp) 11 days snow/sleet falling

18/11 (-4) 19/11 (-6) 20/11 (-6) 01/01 (-7) 04/01 (-10) 10/01 (-7) 11/01 (-3) 30/01 (-1) 13/02 (-6) 15/02 (-4) 18/02 (-6)

24/25 10d

18/11 (-6) 19/11 (-6) 23/11 (-2) 22/12 (-5) 04/01 (-5) 05/01 (0)14/02 (0) 15/02 (0)12/03 (-6) 13/03 (-6)

23/24 8d

29/11 (-6) 30/11 (-6) 02/12 (-5) 03/12 (-5) 04/12 (-3) 16/01 (-3) 18/01 (-8)08/02 (-5)

22/23 7d

18/12 (-1)06/03 (-6) 08/03 (-8) 09/03 (-6) 10/03 (-8) 11/03 (-5) 14/03 (-6)

21/22 12d

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