scillydave
17 July 2023 09:32:18
That's quite an extraordinary range of temperature isn't it?! I can't imagine what it must be like to live somewhere like that.
 
Currently living at roughly 65m asl North of Cowbridge in the Vale of Glamorgan.

Formerly of, Birdlip, highest village in the Cotswolds and snow heaven in winter; Hawkinge in Kent - roof of the South downs and Isles of Scilly, paradise in the UK.
Saint Snow
17 July 2023 11:22:35
In the US:

Las Vegas on the verge of breaking its all-time max temp record of 117F (47.2C)

El Paso, the temperature has been at least 100.4F (38C) for more than a month 

In Phoenix, temperatures have remained above 109.4F (43C) for 17 days

Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Saint Snow
17 July 2023 11:33:40
Originally Posted by: CreweCold 

People seem to be moaning a lot but it looks to me like we've dodged a bullet so far this summer.

Look at the issues ongoing across parts of America and S Europe-people dropping dead due to things like heat stress etc.
The last few years have taught us that we can no longer get 'bog standard' heatwaves which are fairly pleasant...year on year the temperatures during our hot spells are getting hotter and hotter, which culminated in a record of 40+C last summer. Upper air temperatures seem to be increasing yearly and spreading further N and expanding across larger areas of the mid latitudes. If we're going to start experiencing heat on such levels going forward then we need to have the infrastructure in place...and that means making sure that everyone has access to fairly priced air conditioning etc.

Given a choice between dangerously high temperatures and the weather we've had for the past 3 weeks or so, I'd choose the latter every time.

I hope I'm very wrong but I feel we've now gone past the tipping point with regards to climate change. The constant pushing of the heat boundaries over the past few years and the speed at which we're breaking records is evidence enough to me that this can't be turned around easily. Even if global emissions were cut to 0 tomorrow, we've probably got a decade or two of turn around time to go through due to climate feedbacks already in motion (think excess heat stored in the oceans etc).




Dodging a bullet to be hit by a grenade isn't really any better.

WRT climate change, we don't know what changing weather patterns are going to deliver us. Last summer we got enveloped into that European high, which brought heat (at least to the southern half of the UK). Whereas this summer we've seen high pressure dominate the Polar region, displacing the remnants of the PV and Jetstream southwards, keeping a swathe of Northern Europe and Northern North America with very unsettled conditions.

Which will become the dominant broad set-up for summer?

I know it doesn't work like this, but I do think that the west coast of Scotland and Hebrides would be amazing with Mediterranean summers (apart from the mass invasion of chavvy holidaymakers! 😁)

Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Essan
17 July 2023 12:04:33
Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 



I know it doesn't work like this, but I do think that the west coast of Scotland and Hebrides would be amazing with Mediterranean summers (apart from the mass invasion of chavvy holidaymakers! 😁)



They certainly have the beaches up there!

But I was taking to a couple in Arisaig last month who were sailing around in their yacht and they were saying the previous week - when it had been 30c and unbroken sunshine - had been awful as it was so hot they couldn't even sit out on deck and instead had to stay inside .....   And whilst I'd have liked maybe a day like that during my visit, I'd probably have ended up likewise hiding inside a bothy .....     Most folk I speak to down here atm are also agreeing that it's better what we're having (which, when, like today, it's dry and the sun is out isn't really that bad) than what they have in the US, Europe and China.   Also spoke to a Polish guy who's just cancelled a holiday back home to Poland because it's 40c and he'd rather stay here than endure that.
Andy
Evesham, Worcs, Albion - 35m asl
Weather & Earth Science News 

Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job - DNA
Saint Snow
17 July 2023 12:16:20
Originally Posted by: Essan 

They certainly have the beaches up there!

But I was taking to a couple in Arisaig last month




They really do. We fell in love with the place (despite not having the best week of weather - although a couple of lovely days, albeit not that warm at 20c). The beaches around Morar were beautiful (spoiled, though, by having freeloading bloody campervans taking up every parking space)

When you were in Arisaig, I don't suppose you visited the Shellfish Shack for one of their crab butties? Amazing things. The Bakehouse & Crannog at Malaig also brilliant.

 

Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Essan
17 July 2023 12:42:01
Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 



When you were in Arisaig, I don't suppose you visited the Shellfish Shack for one of their crab butties? Amazing things. The Bakehouse & Crannog at Malaig also brilliant.

 



Unfortunately I was on a bit of a tight budget at the time so couldn't afford to treat myself.   I did, however, spend a night camped on a beach that I had all to myself (well away from the campervan hordes around Morar 😁 )
Andy
Evesham, Worcs, Albion - 35m asl
Weather & Earth Science News 

Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job - DNA
Gandalf The White
17 July 2023 13:10:53
Originally Posted by: CreweCold 

People seem to be moaning a lot but it looks to me like we've dodged a bullet so far this summer.

Look at the issues ongoing across parts of America and S Europe-people dropping dead due to things like heat stress etc.
The last few years have taught us that we can no longer get 'bog standard' heatwaves which are fairly pleasant...year on year the temperatures during our hot spells are getting hotter and hotter, which culminated in a record of 40+C last summer. Upper air temperatures seem to be increasing yearly and spreading further N and expanding across larger areas of the mid latitudes. If we're going to start experiencing heat on such levels going forward then we need to have the infrastructure in place...and that means making sure that everyone has access to fairly priced air conditioning etc.

Given a choice between dangerously high temperatures and the weather we've had for the past 3 weeks or so, I'd choose the latter every time.

I hope I'm very wrong but I feel we've now gone past the tipping point with regards to climate change. The constant pushing of the heat boundaries over the past few years and the speed at which we're breaking records is evidence enough to me that this can't be turned around easily. Even if global emissions were cut to 0 tomorrow, we've probably got a decade or two of turn around time to go through due to climate feedbacks already in motion (think excess heat stored in the oceans etc).



Make that a few centuries and you will be closer.  Even if we stopped all emissions now we are still at 420ppm of CO2, a mere 50% up on levels pre-industrialisation.  CO2 takes hundreds of years to be removed from the atmosphere, even under normal circumstances. With oceans having warmed and having already absorbed huge amounts of CO2,  one of the major natural sinks is already under strain.

So, what we are seeing now is the consequence of 1c of warming globally; when we have the prospect of CO2 above 500ppm and 3c+ of warming you can see why scientists are extremely worried.  On top of that, what we’re seeing is worse/faster than most of the models were predicting.  I have been saying for at least 20 years now that we are unwise to tinker with something as complex as our climate system because we really don’t understand it well enough.
 
Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


scillydave
17 July 2023 14:08:22
An incredible midnight temperature of 48.9c in Badwater, Death Valley last night. Apparently the highest temperature recorded in the middle of the night anywhere in the world, ever.
Currently living at roughly 65m asl North of Cowbridge in the Vale of Glamorgan.

Formerly of, Birdlip, highest village in the Cotswolds and snow heaven in winter; Hawkinge in Kent - roof of the South downs and Isles of Scilly, paradise in the UK.
Jiries
18 July 2023 05:41:19
Originally Posted by: scillydave 

An incredible midnight temperature of 48.9c in Badwater, Death Valley last night. Apparently the highest temperature recorded in the middle of the night anywhere in the world, ever.



Yes then drop to 39.4C 103F but had seek highest was 42C 107F before.
Rob K
18 July 2023 09:42:33
Originally Posted by: Rob K 

Death Valley could challenge the world record temperature over the weekend. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2023/07/13/heatwave-california-arizona-florida-texas-records/ 
 



Death Valley recorded an overnight LOW on Sunday night of 40.6C.

It was 49C at 1am.
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Saint Snow
18 July 2023 10:05:28
Originally Posted by: Rob K 

Death Valley recorded an overnight LOW on Sunday night of 40.6C.

It was 49C at 1am.




Hundreds of idiots heading there to 'be part of the record' (how many will need medical help? how many emergency services people will they put at risk?)

🤦

Hopefully the sun & heat will shrivel their nuts so they can't spawn more cretins.

 

Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Quantum
18 July 2023 10:07:35
Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 

Hundreds of idiots heading there to 'be part of the record' (how many will need medical help? how many emergency services people will they put at risk?)

🤦

Hopefully the sun & heat will shrivel their nuts so they can't spawn more cretins.

 


I do get it. Last year I went out during the 40C, despite hating warm weather, just to experience what it felt like. I don't regret doing so though it was only 10 minutes (took 2 hours to cool down!)


 
Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Tim A
18 July 2023 10:17:56
To be honest the only reason to go to Badwater/Furnace Creek is to experience extreme heat or say you have been below sea level, it's not that interesting a place particularly compared to the other national parks etc in the wider area.  Just hot and desolate.
Was 50c and 49c on the Furnace Creek thermometer on the two occasions I went, another few degrees would be interesting but not make much of a difference.  Main thing is what you do, i wouldn't go for a 10 mile hike in it.   
 
Tim
NW Leeds
187m asl


Saint Snow
18 July 2023 11:12:42
Originally Posted by: Quantum 

I do get it. Last year I went out during the 40C, despite hating warm weather, just to experience what it felt like. I don't regret doing so though it was only 10 minutes (took 2 hours to cool down!)


 




And I've been out in 40c when on holiday. But both were in populated areas with nearby facilities (including air-conditioned shops/restaurants).

The issue with the Death Valley visitors is the remoteness of the place and lack of facilities.


PS - immersion in water always cools me down quickly. I don't know why it would take you 2 hours to cool down.

Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Quantum
18 July 2023 13:02:11
Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 

And I've been out in 40c when on holiday. But both were in populated areas with nearby facilities (including air-conditioned shops/restaurants).

The issue with the Death Valley visitors is the remoteness of the place and lack of facilities.


PS - immersion in water always cools me down quickly. I don't know why it would take you 2 hours to cool down.



Don't tolerate heat well at all, and skin doesn't tolerate water :S
 
Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Jiries
18 July 2023 13:02:18
With the heat in the south and cold in the north it not normal in the past poor summers the Med wasn't baking hot but normal hot summer temperatures like 30-40c while here was 17-20C nowadays is 40-50 plus while here colder 14-18C days so that near 30C differences.  If the jet stream are active hitting the Uk why the LP are stuck here and not move to Europe that would cool them down.  The extreme heat should be feeding some warmth here to mid 20's not mid to high teen temps so it getting very boring now.
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
18 July 2023 13:30:05
The current expert view -perhaps speculation would be a better word - seems to be that the jet is weaker because of a warmer Arctic, hence a lower temp gradient to drive the jet. A strong jet just blasts through and creates mobile weather but a weak one can be stuck in a blocking pattern with nothing to move it on, and hence a period of repetitive weather lasting a month or more, as experienced this year in the UK with rain in March, a warm June and a cool July.

Where that block gets set up can depend on various global factors. This year, recent unusual warmth in NW USA / W Canada seems to have set up a wave train, swinging north there, south over the Great Lakes, north over Greenland, south over Britain. There's a diagram in the link, but it's not dated so it could be just for illustrative purposes. However, a BBC weatherman a couple of weeks ago was showing something similar claiming it represented the current situation. https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/features/66177220 

Last year the position of the loops was reversed, so we got the heat. Now we probably have to wait for the hurricane season to give the jetstream a jolt.
War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
Saint Snow
18 July 2023 13:35:04
Originally Posted by: DEW 

The current expert view -perhaps speculation would be a better word - seems to be that the jet is weaker because of a warmer Arctic, hence a lower temp gradient to drive the jet. A strong jet just blasts through and creates mobile weather but a weak one can be stuck in a blocking pattern with nothing to move it on, and hence a period of repetitive weather lasting a month or more, as experienced this year in the UK with rain in March, a warm June and a cool July.

Where that block gets set up can depend on various global factors. This year, recent unusual warmth in NW USA / W Canada seems to have set up a wave train, swinging north there, south over the Great Lakes, north over Greenland, south over Britain. There's a diagram in the link, but it's not dated so it could be just for illustrative purposes. However, a BBC weatherman a couple of weeks ago was showing something similar claiming it represented the current situation. https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/features/66177220 

Last year the position of the loops was reversed, so we got the heat




The persistence of high pressure over the North Pole seems anomalous, too. Again tying into a warmer Arctic?

Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Ally Pally Snowman
18 July 2023 16:37:51
Maybe I'm being harsh but think the BBC are hyping the European heatwave somewhat.  Its significant but not unprecedented. Same with the US heatwave.  The Chinese heatwave is probably the most extreme. 
 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Gandalf The White
18 July 2023 16:55:24
Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

Maybe I'm being harsh but think the BBC are hyping the European heatwave somewhat.  Its significant but not unprecedented. Same with the US heatwave.  The Chinese heatwave is probably the most extreme. 
 



Really?  ‘Not unprecedented’?  Even when records are being broken; even when taken collectively they are definitely unprecedented: large swathes of the Northern Hemisphere under exceptional heat.  Not to mention other areas under significant rainfall events.
Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


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