Ally Pally Snowman
18 January 2021 07:58:06

Originally Posted by: Joe Bloggs 


 


Morning, I think that’s a tad pessimistic, I think snow will get down to lower levels this weekend in the north and showers may be driven well inland with a westerly vector to the wind. A snapshot from GFS shows this quite well. 

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSOPEU00_120_1.png



 


Maybe a brief 48h window for low level snow in the north. But the real story sadly will be flooding looks horrendous. 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
doctormog
18 January 2021 07:59:42

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


 


 


Maybe a brief 48h window for low level snow in the north. But the real story sadly will be flooding looks horrendous. 



Which 48hr period are you thinking of?


Ally Pally Snowman
18 January 2021 08:02:33

Look at that lovely warmth over Iberia.  Ecm gets close to bringing it our way by day 10 would be some very mild temps if we can tap into it


 


https://www.wetterzentrale.de/topkarten.php?map=1&model=ecm&var=2&run=0&time=240&lid=OP&h=0&mv=1&tr=24#mapref


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Ally Pally Snowman
18 January 2021 08:05:42

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


 


Which 48hr period are you thinking of?



ECM has a 48h window just about over the weekend.  For the north of England.  


144h seems to be about the peak of cold looks wet for the south though.


https://www.wetterzentrale.de/topkarten.php?map=1&model=ecm&var=2&run=0&time=144&lid=OP&h=0&mv=1&tr=24#mapref


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Tim A
18 January 2021 08:12:56

Originally Posted by: Joe Bloggs 


 


Morning, I think that’s a tad pessimistic, I think snow will get down to lower levels this weekend in the north and showers may be driven well inland with a westerly vector to the wind. A snapshot from GFS shows this quite well. 

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSOPEU00_120_1.png



Indeed and there are a number of snow opportunities after that too.


 


Snow for northern hills normally means high peaks in England and more modest hills in Scotland but the opportunities are much more than that.


https://wxcharts.com/charts/ecmwf/eng/charts/snowdepth_20210118_00_096.jpg?


https://wxcharts.com/charts/ecmwf/eng/charts/snowdepth_20210118_00_192.jpg?


 


https://wxcharts.com/charts/ecmwf/eng/charts/snowdepth_20210118_00_240.jpg?


 


Not a fan of these snow charts but posting them to show potential and interest. 


Tim
NW Leeds
187m asl


doctormog
18 January 2021 08:19:24

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


 


ECM has a 48h window just about over the weekend.  For the north of England.  


144h seems to be about the peak of cold looks wet for the south though.


https://www.wetterzentrale.de/topkarten.php?map=1&model=ecm&var=2&run=0&time=144&lid=OP&h=0&mv=1&tr=24#mapref


 



Sorry, I hadn’t realised you were excluding Scotland when you said “the north”.


Tim A
18 January 2021 08:22:00

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


 


Sorry, I hadn’t realised you were excluding Scotland when you said “the north”.



Just realised I literally did do that with my ECM charts posted above


They do look very good for Scotland though.


Tim
NW Leeds
187m asl


doctormog
18 January 2021 08:25:26

Originally Posted by: Tim A 


 


Just realised I literally did do that with my ECM charts posted above


They do look very good for Scotland though.




Dont worry, it stops me from having to look at charts showing rain here and snow just outside our permitted area of travel 


Overall the outlook could be summed up as unsettled but with temperatures a bit more uncertain. Milder to the south and cooler to the north, but by how much is unclear and open to change.


Hippydave
18 January 2021 08:39:43

Thought it'd probably be worth posting the London GFS ens, which show it being mainly on the chilly side of average over the next 9-10 days, just in case any other comments confused the matter.


Chart image


 


Post 26th a good possibility we'll experience some much milder weather down here, with temps hitting 10-11c on the corresponding T2M plots, probably for 24-48 hours although could be a touch longer I guess. Slim chance though it stays colder and temps struggle to average at best.


Longer term and there's the expected plenty of scatter but a reasonable chunk of said scatter is on the colder side of average, suggesting there will be an ongoing chance of cold weather re-establishing in the south into February.


Taking the ens further North shows a similar picture albeit more chance of snow throughout and temps more likely to remain a touch lower than average throughout, particularly for Scotland.  


Just looking at the GFS Op and as you'd expect given the setup, Wales North shows the most likely position of any snow, with snowfall shown from mid afternoon Wednesday for parts of Scotland, more widely in Northern England and again parts of Scotland during Thursday along with parts of Wales and a wintry shower risk continuing through in to Sunday with a band of mostly snow moving down through the Midlands. Thereafter Tuesday 26th Jan shows a band of rain turning readily to snow at least for a time from the Midlands North and a similar repeat occurrence on Thursday 28th, Scotland tending to remain on the snow side (at least for higher ground and away from some of the coastal fringes) throughout. No it won't verify exactly like that but that shows snow chances for over a week and not just restricted to Scottish mountains or the highest ground of Northern England. 


ECM shows a broadly similar picture. The Op was towards the top of the milder options around the 25th Jan so may be being a little too enthusiastic with the HP build to the south at that time and consequently the extent of the milder air dragged towards the South. It's not an outlier though so some support for that evolution.


TBH if you'd stripped out the colder ens, particularly when they became the minority option last week you'd have said the pattern would have looked very similar to the London end up to the 26th of Jan, with the uncertainty post that period greater. So other than firming up on a possible couple of day window for quite mild weather down here 27th Jan (ish) the consistency in the models hasn't been too bad IMO. Certainly what's being shown as likely now was what I thought was likely from the middle part of last week


No it's not a prolonged deep cold spell and yes the south is likely to see mostly cold rain but it's not a mild pattern for the most part and snow chances are there for quite a few areas for quite a bit of the time. It also wouldn't surprise me if some of the Midlands saw at least temporary snow and other places in the south a few flakes. Not great of course but it is what it is and consistent with what's been shown by the ens for a while now.


Home: Tunbridge Wells
Work: Tonbridge
Maunder Minimum
18 January 2021 08:45:41

To look on the bright side, it is an ill wind which blows nobody any good. Massive disappointment for cold weather fans that charts at 10 days out did not materialise as had been hoped. Given the recent SSW we were giving undue credence to stellar charts which then failed to come to fruition, with the projected Greenie HP failing to be robust enough or far enough east to deliver wintery nirvana.


However, the bright side? We are in the middle of a nasty pandemic with a mass rollout of vaccine and we don't want that disrupted if at all possible, so the silver lining of a lack of deep snow and bitter winds, is that the vaccine rollout won't be disrupted by a severe wintery outbreak.


New world order coming.
Joe Bloggs
18 January 2021 08:52:52

Originally Posted by: Hippydave 


Thought it'd probably be worth posting the London GFS ens, which show it being mainly on the chilly side of average over the next 9-10 days, just in case any other comments confused the matter.


Chart image


 


Post 26th a good possibility we'll experience some much milder weather down here, with temps hitting 10-11c on the corresponding T2M plots, probably for 24-48 hours although could be a touch longer I guess. Slim chance though it stays colder and temps struggle to average at best.


Longer term and there's the expected plenty of scatter but a reasonable chunk of said scatter is on the colder side of average, suggesting there will be an ongoing chance of cold weather re-establishing in the south into February.


Taking the ens further North shows a similar picture albeit more chance of snow throughout and temps more likely to remain a touch lower than average throughout, particularly for Scotland.  


Just looking at the GFS Op and as you'd expect given the setup, Wales North shows the most likely position of any snow, with snowfall shown from mid afternoon Wednesday for parts of Scotland, more widely in Northern England and again parts of Scotland during Thursday along with parts of Wales and a wintry shower risk continuing through in to Sunday with a band of mostly snow moving down through the Midlands. Thereafter Tuesday 26th Jan shows a band of rain turning readily to snow at least for a time from the Midlands North and a similar repeat occurrence on Thursday 28th, Scotland tending to remain on the snow side (at least for higher ground and away from some of the coastal fringes) throughout. No it won't verify exactly like that but that shows snow chances for over a week and not just restricted to Scottish mountains or the highest ground of Northern England. 


ECM shows a broadly similar picture. The Op was towards the top of the milder options around the 25th Jan so may be being a little too enthusiastic with the HP build to the south at that time and consequently the extent of the milder air dragged towards the South. It's not an outlier though so some support for that evolution.


TBH if you'd stripped out the colder ens, particularly when they became the minority option last week you'd have said the pattern would have looked very similar to the London end up to the 26th of Jan, with the uncertainty post that period greater. So other than firming up on a possible couple of day window for quite mild weather down here 27th Jan (ish) the consistency in the models hasn't been too bad IMO. Certainly what's being shown as likely now was what I thought was likely from the middle part of last week


No it's not a prolonged deep cold spell and yes the south is likely to see mostly cold rain but it's not a mild pattern for the most part and snow chances are there for quite a few areas for quite a bit of the time. It also wouldn't surprise me if some of the Midlands saw at least temporary snow and other places in the south a few flakes. Not great of course but it is what it is and consistent with what's been shown by the ens for a while now.



Brilliant analysis, thanks for taking the time to post this. :) 



Manchester City Centre, 31m ASL

nsrobins
18 January 2021 08:55:22

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


 



Dont worry, it stops me from having to look at charts showing rain here and snow just outside our permitted area of travel 



Are you only permitted to travel 3 miles?


πŸ˜‚πŸ˜Ž


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
The Beast from the East
18 January 2021 08:56:11

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


To look on the bright side, it is an ill wind which blows nobody any good. Massive disappointment for cold weather fans that charts at 10 days out did not materialise as had been hoped. Given the recent SSW we were giving undue credence to stellar charts which then failed to come to fruition, with the projected Greenie HP failing to be robust enough or far enough east to deliver wintery nirvana.


However, the bright side? We are in the middle of a nasty pandemic with a mass rollout of vaccine and we don't want that disrupted if at all possible, so the silver lining of a lack of deep snow and bitter winds, is that the vaccine rollout won't be disrupted by a severe wintery outbreak.




Agree Maunder. If that pathetic wet snow we had on Saturday is the best we can do in the modern warming era, then I would prefer it never to be cold at all. I am now yearning for some warm sunshine to help end the virus so we can socialise again in the pub


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Maunder Minimum
18 January 2021 09:09:24

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


 



Agree Maunder. If that pathetic wet snow we had on Saturday is the best we can do in the modern warming era, then I would prefer it never to be cold at all. I am now yearning for some warm sunshine to help end the virus so we can socialise again in the pub



Getting the pubs back open again is a top priority for me :-)


Probably beats heavy snow and that is saying something I never expected to say.


New world order coming.
Ally Pally Snowman
18 January 2021 09:09:47

Theres no confusion the outlook is fairly mild in the south apart from a brief chilly spell. Here's London forecasts temps.


8c, 12c, 11c, 10c , 8c, 7c, 7c,10c, 11c, 11c, 11c, 10c,10c, 10c,


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
The Beast from the East
18 January 2021 09:12:35

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


Theres no confusion the outlook is fairly mild in the south apart from a brief chilly spell. Here's London forecasts temps.


8c, 12c, 11c, 10c , 8c, 7c, 7c,10c, 11c, 11c, 11c, 10c,10c, 10c,



WINTER IS OVER The Daffs are coming up already


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Jiries
18 January 2021 09:14:20

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


Look at that lovely warmth over Iberia.  Ecm gets close to bringing it our way by day 10 would be some very mild temps if we can tap into it


 


https://www.wetterzentrale.de/topkarten.php?map=1&model=ecm&var=2&run=0&time=240&lid=OP&h=0&mv=1&tr=24#mapref


 



Yes very early to see that warmth and after they got snow and now they will get a heatwave so that very interesting weather-wise than here.  Also to notice the warmth so eager to start showing it hands are in Death Valley had reached 32C 90F on 16th Jan which is a new record after 31C 87F was broken.  If we can't get anything cold and snowy then I would rather see warmth coming early this year.  Some 20C uppers also appearing on the lower part of the charts in the Middle East.

Ally Pally Snowman
18 January 2021 09:18:49

Originally Posted by: Jiries 


 


Yes very early to see that warmth and after they got snow and now they will get a heatwave so that very interesting weather-wise than here.  Also to notice the warmth so eager to start showing it hands are in Death Valley had reached 32C 90F on 16th Jan which is a new record after 31C 87F was broken.  If we can't get anything cold and snowy then I would rather see warmth coming early this year.  Some 20C uppers also appearing on the lower part of the charts in the Middle East.



 


Indeed Greece also has seen record January temperatures. 


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://greekherald.com.au/news/greece-records-its-hottest-january-160-years/%23:~:text%3DIn%2520early%2520January%252C%2520temperatures%2520in,temperature%2520of%252014.8%2520degrees%2520Celsius.&ved=2ahUKEwje-ZnzkqXuAhXUuHEKHUrdAvcQFjABegQIAhAF&usg=AOvVaw058yWKkbrQA-oHAhCTlRef


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Rob K
18 January 2021 09:19:45

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


Some colossal rainfall totals over the next 10 days especially for northern England.  Limited snow opportunities away from northern hills. In fact its mainly mild in the south.



Average rather than mild I would say, with some days above and some days below.


The forecast maxima here for the next 10 days range between 5C and 11C, with the average max being 7.7C. January average max for Reading (closest big town I could find data for) is 8C. 


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." β€” Jerome K. Jerome
Narnia
18 January 2021 09:22:44
I love reading the posts on here from many respected people with their views, it has certainly helped me understand the weather better over the last few years. What I don’t get currently especially with all that is going on with SSW events is why people are talking about ten days time from what they are seeing in the models. It is a model discussion group and that is what should be happening but what you are seeing is just not going to happen let alone trends. Can anyone put me up to speed on when looking more than about four days ahead are there certain times of the year when models are more accurate than other times or is it always just about trends?
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