dagspot
15 January 2021 16:27:02

the issue is there no real harm in issuing amber then nothing happens, whereas the opposite doesn't hold true. Everything is defensive nowadays. And everyone loves the ‘drama’ of an Amber...and they often curtail or disappear to avoid embarrassment when it rains


Neilston 600ft ASL
roadrunnerajn
15 January 2021 16:37:16

Originally Posted by: dagspot 


the issue is there no real harm in issuing amber then nothing happens, whereas the opposite doesn't hold true. Everything is defensive nowadays. And everyone loves the ‘drama’ of an Amber...and they often curtail or disappear to avoid embarrassment when it rains



I agree that these days we put warnings up if there is the slightest chance of an issue. I’m probably just getting old and I can remember going to school after a 8 inch (20cm) fall and nobody battered an eye lid.


Germoe, part of the breakaway Celtic Republic.
LeedsLad123
15 January 2021 16:38:51

Originally Posted by: dagspot 


the issue is there no real harm in issuing amber then nothing happens, whereas the opposite doesn't hold true. Everything is defensive nowadays. And everyone loves the ‘drama’ of an Amber...and they often curtail or disappear to avoid embarrassment when it rains



That still doesn’t explain the lack of amber warnings in Yorkshire this past week for two significant snowfalls in a very densely populated area. I think it’s fair to say a lot of people around here were caught off guard yesterday.


Even if the Met didn’t expect such significant widespread snowfall to low levels, in the past they would usually retrospectively issue an amber warning to account for the developing situation.


All very strange imo.


Whitkirk, Leeds - 85m ASL.
Rob K
15 January 2021 16:52:01

Originally Posted by: Zubzero 


heavy snow @ rush hour = high impact 😋



Rush hour? It's Saturday morning, and we are all meant to be staying at home anyway, under penalty of law!


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Retron
15 January 2021 17:04:34
Love the way the yellow warning for snow has been carefully set to avoid north-facing coasts (such as mine) in Kent... seems a bit daft considering that this will be coming from a southerly and thus unaffected by the warm North Sea!

We'll see what transpires tomorrow, even the MetO raw is going for snow here for a short time.

(And as I drove slowly but steadily through the flooded main road on the way home earlier I still wonder why no warnings for rain yesterday!)
Leysdown, north Kent
Ally Pally Snowman
15 January 2021 17:07:02

Originally Posted by: Rob K 


 


Rush hour? It's Saturday morning, and we are all meant to be staying at home anyway, under penalty of law!



 


I  believe its because they expect at least  3 feet of snow.laughing


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Rob K
15 January 2021 17:17:43

Originally Posted by: Retron 

Love the way the yellow warning for snow has been carefully set to avoid north-facing coasts (such as mine) in Kent... seems a bit daft considering that this will be coming from a southerly and thus unaffected by the warm North Sea!


I think "carefully" is a bit generous - it looks as if it has been drawn by a child using a broken ruler.


The western half of Sheppey is in the yellow zone...


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
dagspot
15 January 2021 18:00:37
‘turning colder later in the week’ BBC 1758hrs

Neilston 600ft ASL
fullybhoy
15 January 2021 19:25:38
Turning much colder next week says Sean Batty on the STV weather at half 6
Aldo
Glasgow 165m/asl
 
tierradelfuego
15 January 2021 19:31:41

Originally Posted by: dagspot 

‘turning colder later in the week’ BBC 1758hrs


 


I don't think I'd bother looking out at at 1758hrs, that really is FI 


Have to say I prefer/seem to see more correlation with the BBC than METO recently in terms of forecasts so hopefully that pans out...


Bucklebury
West Berkshire Downs AONB
135m ASL

VP2 with daytime FARS
Rainfall collector separated at ground level
Anemometer separated above roof level
WeatherLink Live (Byles Green Weather)
jhall
15 January 2021 20:38:27

Originally Posted by: roadrunnerajn 


 


I agree that these days we put warnings up if there is the slightest chance of an issue. I’m probably just getting old and I can remember going to school after a 8 inch (20cm) fall and nobody battered an eye lid.



I remember back in the 1970s, if there was a snow warning they would put it out after the 4pm news headlines on Radio 2. IIRC less than 4 inches expected was "light", 4-8 inches "medium" and 8 inches or more was "heavy". Actually, they may only have broadcast a warning for medium or heavy (and heavy didn't happen very often, as you can imagine).


Cranleigh, Surrey
Gavin D
16 January 2021 10:15:28

BBC monthly outlook


Summary


Highly variable temperatures for a few weeks.


_________________________________


Saturday 16 January – Sunday 24 January


Swingy temperatures and snow risks for some.


As a cold ridge of high pressure over the UK slides away to the southeast into Europe this weekend, a frontal system will push in from the Atlantic. This front will bring in some milder air. It will also bring snow and ice for northern and eastern areas on Saturday morning, with the milder air arriving slightly later. Sunday and Monday will see another ridge of high pressure slide over the southern half of the UK. Things will stay rather breezy and unsettled for the north. This high will bring in plenty of cloud though, so it won't tend to be too sunny. Next week, a stronger low pressure system is expected to move in on Monday bringing some wet weather throughout the country through midweek.

Snow is unlikely expected for the highest ground in Scotland, thanks to the milder sub-tropical air moving in from the Atlantic. Temperatures will be above average through midweek, but it is still January, so highs will still tend to be below 10C for most. For the second half of the week and weekend, the temperatures will dip away below average again, with a risk of some snow showers for northern parts of Scotland and perhaps into Northeast England. The low pressure from Monday will likely stall over Central Europe as high pressure builds in Greenland and Russia. This will keep a cold northerly wind over the UK for a few days, but it will also be a bit drier for southern areas. Next weekend, there is potential for a low to bring some wintry weather for southern England as it speeds through the English Channel. But confidence is low on whether this will materialise or not.


Monday 25 January – Sunday 31 January


Turning wetter and milder with some cold snaps.


For the rest of January, the high pressure system building in Greenland will play a major role in our weather pattern, despite being hundreds of miles away. This is because the jet stream, a ribbon of fast moving air in the upper atmosphere that drives weather systems, is being pushed further south in the Atlantic. The southward track of low pressure systems will allow them to pick up some milder sub-tropical air and drag it into western Europe behind warm fronts. This weather pattern is likely to persist through the week, so we will see low pressure systems bring milder air from the west and southwest along with plenty of rain and some stronger winds.

Between these lows there will be a few days of some sharp cold and dry weather as a brisk northerly wind develops. As the next fronts move in over the colder air, there will be risks of some wintry weather for some areas, mainly the north but also the east too. Snow or freezing rain is possible, even to low levels at times. So, while a repeat of 2018's Beast of the East does not appear likely, that doesn't mean we will escape any potentially disruptive wintry weather. If high pressure in Russia is a bit stronger than we currently expect, lows will tend to stall in Central Europe or Scandinavia. This will bring some longer-lived cold snaps to the UK. This is more of a risk scenario though, with a thirty percent chance of happening.


Monday 1 February – Sunday 14 February


Staying unsettled and increasingly milder.


By early February, the high pressure system in Greenland is expected to begin to ease, but it will certainty take its time doing it. As it slowly weakens, lows will be able to move into Northwest Europe more freely, bringing some longer-lived mild spells associated with warm fronts. Between the low pressure systems, cold snaps are still likely, but will become increasingly shorter-lived. The temperature is likely to still be very changeable, shifting from a few degrees above average in the mild spells to several degrees below average in the cold snaps with some sharp frosts likely. Again, as with late January, some wintry weather is possible as fronts move in over the top of the colder air.

There are some signals that by mid-February it may tend to be milder most of the time which will ease the risk for wintry weather (at least for everywhere but the Scottish Highlands!). However, confidence is low at this range as computer model forecast skill as been very poor in recent days. There is a high risk for more prolonged cold to develop into mid-February, which would be caused by stronger high pressure to the north. This would also be a drier pattern for the UK as the Atlantic low pressure systems mainly track south of us and head into France, Spain, and Portugal.


Further ahead


Hopefully, we will be able to better pin down the weather pattern for February with some additional data on the high pressure system in Greenland.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/outlook


 

Ally Pally Snowman
16 January 2021 10:56:37

Hints from the beeb that after a couple more marginal weeks things will warm up.


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Chichesterweatherfan2
16 January 2021 11:21:49
Very odd wording....talks about high risk for more prolonged cold to develop into mid Feb...but in same breath it also talks about milder weather developing....talk about keeping all options on the table!
tallyho_83
16 January 2021 11:40:15

Originally Posted by: Gavin D 


BBC monthly outlook


Summary


Highly variable temperatures for a few weeks.


_________________________________


Saturday 16 January – Sunday 24 January


Swingy temperatures and snow risks for some.


As a cold ridge of high pressure over the UK slides away to the southeast into Europe this weekend, a frontal system will push in from the Atlantic. This front will bring in some milder air. It will also bring snow and ice for northern and eastern areas on Saturday morning, with the milder air arriving slightly later. Sunday and Monday will see another ridge of high pressure slide over the southern half of the UK. Things will stay rather breezy and unsettled for the north. This high will bring in plenty of cloud though, so it won't tend to be too sunny. Next week, a stronger low pressure system is expected to move in on Monday bringing some wet weather throughout the country through midweek.

Snow is unlikely expected for the highest ground in Scotland, thanks to the milder sub-tropical air moving in from the Atlantic. Temperatures will be above average through midweek, but it is still January, so highs will still tend to be below 10C for most. For the second half of the week and weekend, the temperatures will dip away below average again, with a risk of some snow showers for northern parts of Scotland and perhaps into Northeast England. The low pressure from Monday will likely stall over Central Europe as high pressure builds in Greenland and Russia. This will keep a cold northerly wind over the UK for a few days, but it will also be a bit drier for southern areas. Next weekend, there is potential for a low to bring some wintry weather for southern England as it speeds through the English Channel. But confidence is low on whether this will materialise or not.


Monday 25 January – Sunday 31 January


Turning wetter and milder with some cold snaps.


For the rest of January, the high pressure system building in Greenland will play a major role in our weather pattern, despite being hundreds of miles away. This is because the jet stream, a ribbon of fast moving air in the upper atmosphere that drives weather systems, is being pushed further south in the Atlantic. The southward track of low pressure systems will allow them to pick up some milder sub-tropical air and drag it into western Europe behind warm fronts. This weather pattern is likely to persist through the week, so we will see low pressure systems bring milder air from the west and southwest along with plenty of rain and some stronger winds.

Between these lows there will be a few days of some sharp cold and dry weather as a brisk northerly wind develops. As the next fronts move in over the colder air, there will be risks of some wintry weather for some areas, mainly the north but also the east too. Snow or freezing rain is possible, even to low levels at times. So, while a repeat of 2018's Beast of the East does not appear likely, that doesn't mean we will escape any potentially disruptive wintry weather. If high pressure in Russia is a bit stronger than we currently expect, lows will tend to stall in Central Europe or Scandinavia. This will bring some longer-lived cold snaps to the UK. This is more of a risk scenario though, with a thirty percent chance of happening.


Monday 1 February – Sunday 14 February


Staying unsettled and increasingly milder.


By early February, the high pressure system in Greenland is expected to begin to ease, but it will certainty take its time doing it. As it slowly weakens, lows will be able to move into Northwest Europe more freely, bringing some longer-lived mild spells associated with warm fronts. Between the low pressure systems, cold snaps are still likely, but will become increasingly shorter-lived. The temperature is likely to still be very changeable, shifting from a few degrees above average in the mild spells to several degrees below average in the cold snaps with some sharp frosts likely. Again, as with late January, some wintry weather is possible as fronts move in over the top of the colder air.

There are some signals that by mid-February it may tend to be milder most of the time which will ease the risk for wintry weather (at least for everywhere but the Scottish Highlands!). However, confidence is low at this range as computer model forecast skill as been very poor in recent days. There is a high risk for more prolonged cold to develop into mid-February, which would be caused by stronger high pressure to the north. This would also be a drier pattern for the UK as the Atlantic low pressure systems mainly track south of us and head into France, Spain, and Portugal.


Further ahead


Hopefully, we will be able to better pin down the weather pattern for February with some additional data on the high pressure system in Greenland.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/outlook


 



Goodness me how can they say "Unsettled and turning increasingly mild" in the Title and then in the 1st paragraph they say - "There are some signals that by mid-February it may tend to be milder" but then say in the 2nd paragraph straight after they go on to say "There is a high risk for more prolonged cold to develop into Mid February." 


They then criticize compute the models when they have just contradicted themselves!


However, As for the computer model forecast being very poor - well that I do agree with them well and they are not wrong on that. But I don't agree with their contradiction at all.


Another thing - and I am being pedantic Greenland is between 1,500 and 2,000 miles away not 100's of miles away they meant thousands of miles away, unless they were thinking of Iceland.


Gosh I could have written a better text forecast than the BEEB. Come on BBC. Wakey Wakey!


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


Gavin D
16 January 2021 14:25:13

Thursday 21 Jan - Saturday 30 Jan


From Thursday onwards rather cold and unsettled conditions look likely for most of the UK, as a low pressure system remains to the northeast. Northwesterly winds from this system are expected to bring frequent showers, particularly to north and west-facing coasts, and this will likely fall as snow over high level areas, and also down to lower levels at times. Atlantic low-pressure systems are expected to cross the south of the country at times, bringing rainfall and periods of slightly milder temperatures, and there will be a risk of snowfall on the boundary between the mild and cold air masses. Northern and central areas are more likely to be affected by wintry hazards during this period.


Saturday 30 Jan - Saturday 13 Feb


Confidence for this period is low, though there is a signal for weaker than average westerly winds and for Atlantic low-pressure systems to track further south than normal. This will bring below-average temperatures to the north of the UK, with a greater than normal risk of wintry precipitation. Further south, there is a continued risk of unsettled conditions, with above-average rainfall and periods of slightly above average temperatures. There remains the potential for significant snowfall along the boundary between colder air to the north and the milder air in the south, with the greatest risk across central and northern areas. Through this period there is a greater than average chance of cold spells spreading across the whole UK at times with the associated risk of wintry hazards.


https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/


 

tallyho_83
16 January 2021 14:36:27

Originally Posted by: Gavin D 


Thursday 21 Jan - Saturday 30 Jan


From Thursday onwards rather cold and unsettled conditions look likely for most of the UK, as a low pressure system remains to the northeast. Northwesterly winds from this system are expected to bring frequent showers, particularly to north and west-facing coasts, and this will likely fall as snow over high level areas, and also down to lower levels at times. Atlantic low-pressure systems are expected to cross the south of the country at times, bringing rainfall and periods of slightly milder temperatures, and there will be a risk of snowfall on the boundary between the mild and cold air masses. Northern and central areas are more likely to be affected by wintry hazards during this period.


Saturday 30 Jan - Saturday 13 Feb


Confidence for this period is low, though there is a signal for weaker than average westerly winds and for Atlantic low-pressure systems to track further south than normal. This will bring below-average temperatures to the north of the UK, with a greater than normal risk of wintry precipitation. Further south, there is a continued risk of unsettled conditions, with above-average rainfall and periods of slightly above average temperatures. There remains the potential for significant snowfall along the boundary between colder air to the north and the milder air in the south, with the greatest risk across central and northern areas. Through this period there is a greater than average chance of cold spells spreading across the whole UK at times with the associated risk of wintry hazards.


https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/


 



Not much change and of course their new catch phrase "Wintry Hazards". I believe because of the low confidence and model uncertainty they use the term "wintry hazards" to cover themselves because as previously said..


 


"Wintry hazards" can range from anything to slipping on ice to freezing fog to flooding, to freezing rain to heavy snow etc. So if any of these happen then they would have covered it in their forecast by stating it's a "wintry hazard!" So they don't face criticism from public. I also feel the "Wintry precipitation" is very vague too.


I agree with Gez - It would be an idea for the Met Office to make a glossary listing all their winter terminology/catch phrases they use in the forecasts so the public have a better understanding of their specific winter terminology phrases they always use.


As for the second part of the long range forecast "Greater than average chance of cold spells spreading across the whole of the UK at times with Wintry Hazards" - Remains a mystery - the shorter range models like GFS show anything but cold across the whole of the UK.   


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


Zubzero
16 January 2021 16:06:37
That's some rainfall amounts for the yellow warning in the northwest. Up to 150-200mm on the hills ouch!
tallyho_83
16 January 2021 22:03:11

Re the SSW from the BBC: - Not sure if anyone has shared this yet but if not...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/features/55662527


 


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


tallyho_83
16 January 2021 22:06:25
Meanwhile the bitterly cold winter in Siberia continues:
-55c in Oymyakon:

https://www.accuweather.com/en/ru/oymyakon/571464/weather-forecast/571464 


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


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