I've said from the start that Covid-19 has reduced CO2 emissions to a far greater extent than Greta has - she's almost redundant in that respect.

Pro tem 

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The backdated data today for England shows the earliest death was April 10th with May 13th the highest single reporting day

Zero covid related deaths reported today in Denmark for the first time since the epidemic began

Yeah, but that's a futile zero, mate. Apparently.

 

 

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Just a little nugget from what schools, at least in Sheffield, are thinking. Also I hear that Liverpool schools are not expecting to be open fully before September. The decisions lie with the governors and/or trustees not the government, thankfully.

Potentially, and again this is under the assumption there will not be any major changes to guidance between now and June which itself is questionable, we would have the first week of June for staff induction with children perhaps returning on June 8th. It is a shame that a rota system isn't advised. I know our school will have major worries with our staff and space capacity without a rota in place.

For now it remains speculation with plenty of noise still to come from unions, the government, and local authorities right down to the governors of different schools around the country.

I will happily return to work full time in school when I believe it is safe; that is to say backed up by clear scientific data published by the government. Otherwise I will still return to work but in a more anxious state worrying about the transmission of a virus never before seen in this country.

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Cop out. Which one is the answer for you, nothing v priceless?

 

I've thought about this. I think once you start treating a life as of different value to another you are on very problematic path. Humanity has been at different positions down that path over history.

I do also think adult people should have control over their lives and how they end - but that is a very different answer to a very different question.

There, I didn't find that hard to answer, why are you so reticent? Indeed, why will you still not answer my question? Again, how many lives is the economy worth and what value is a life wrt that - worthless v priceless?

I begin to think you think the lockdown wasn't worth it so you must think more lives should have been lost (or you don't understand that the lockdown worked) to save the economy. How many more lives should have been lost?. With no lockdown I see no reason why the virus would not take out 1% of us - that would be several 100K...

 

Agree 100%.  Start  giving judgements  to the value  of  people of different age, race, gender (etc) and you are on  a very sticky wicket  indeed.

We have even seen some people attaching  value to certain attributes - Oh, he's a "fatso", diabetic (therefore probably also a fatso).  Smoker (self-inflicted risk)  doesn't take exercise etc (slob).

 

 

 

 

 

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 Where?

There I guess

Life is about making hard choices - governments should choose the least bad choice when the country is at a crossroads - all I am doing is expressing my view that the adverse consequences from continuing the lockdown at this stage are more severe than any possible consequences from easing the lockdown. That is what the debate is really about.

I am of the view that the long term damage to the economy is worse than any of the alternatives.

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Agree 100%.  Start  giving judgements  to the value  of  people of different age, race, gender (etc) and you are on  a very sticky wicket  indeed.

We have even seen some people attaching  value to certain attributes - Oh, he's a "fatso", diabetic (therefore probably also a fatso).  Smoker (self-inflicted risk)  doesn't take exercise etc (slob).

I haven't seen anyone on here debating in those terms. We are talking about balance of risks and the risks to the economy now outweigh (in my view) the risks from the virus.

The sensible thing to do is to isolate care homes as far as possible, alert all those who are vulnerable (as far as we know) from the virus and then to allow the majority to get on with doing whatever they do to earn a crust of bread.

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There I guess

Life is about making hard choices - governments should choose the least bad choice when the country is at a crossroads - all I am doing is expressing my view that the adverse consequences from continuing the lockdown at this stage are more severe than any possible consequences from easing the lockdown. That is what the debate is really about.

I am of the view that the long term damage to the economy is worse than any of the alternatives.

I think most of the economic damage is already bought in. The damage per day is probably much lower in magnitude than it was in the first week of the lockdown. In purely economic terms the worst case scenario is to come out of the lockdown and then have to go into a 2nd lockdown due to another wave.

The economy can 'survive' (survive here being a relative term, its still completely buggered) a short sharp hit. A bigger problem is damage accumulating over the long term (years rather than months).

 

The time to come out of lockdown is when we have robust evidence that R is not only well below 1 but sustainably below 1. We also need breathing room in case R starts to increase so we can stop it before it goes above 1.

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My antibody test results are in! Not the result I was hoping for, but there you go... can't win 'em all!

 

 

Patient	DARREN
Sample Date	13/05/2020
Report Date	14/05/2020

 

SARS-CoV-2 Virus IgG Antibody. Processed on Abbott Architect ci8200 analyser

Test	Results
SARS-CoV-2 IgG	NEGATIVE

It shows that intelligent and analytical people like you can't be sure if they've had it or not. I have long suspected that most who say they "had it in January or February" are wrong and in many cases guilty of wishful thinking.  Your result reinforces my belief. 

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Yeah, but that's a futile zero, mate. Apparently.

But how did it happen? Their schools are open

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But how did it happen? Their schools are open

According to The Times the latest research shows children are just as likely to be infected as adults. On paper you would think schools would be Corona virus distribution centres. However, Denmark is clearly doing something right it would seem. 

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It shows that intelligent and analytical people like you can't be sure if they've had it or not. I have long suspected that most who say they "had it in January or February" are wrong and in many cases guilty of wishful thinking.  Your result reinforces my belief. 

In my case, I was sent home from work in late March due to a fever (and I had other symptoms, such as a sore throat. I also had night sweats following that, a few days later a cough, aches, pains and a general "out of it" feeling - like mild flu). It seems most likely it was mild flu after all.

The headteacher was convinced I'd had Covid, I was much less certain but wanted to get a test as soon as reasonably practicable.

I would suggest that those thinking they had it in December, January or even February are most unlikely to have had it - but we need those antibody tests rolled out pronto. If nothing else, it brings peace of mind knowing whether you'd had it or not!

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In my case, I was sent home from work in late March due to a fever (and I had other symptoms, such as a sore throat. I also had night sweats following that, a few days later a cough, aches, pains and a general "out of it" feeling - like mild flu). It seems most likely it was mild flu after all.

The headteacher was convinced I'd had Covid, I was much less certain but wanted to get a test as soon as reasonably practicable.

I would suggest that those thinking they had it in December, January or even February are most unlikely to have had it - but we need those antibody tests rolled out pronto. If nothing else, it brings peace of mind knowing whether you'd had it or not!

Retron how did you manage to get the test done if you don't mind me asking?

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Retron how did you manage to get the test done if you don't mind me asking?

I paid for it privately. Judging by their email apologising for a 4-hour delay in results, they've been getting a LOT of business!

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But how did it happen? Their schools are open

A pathetically simplistic statement. Look at their deaths, R0, and the measures brought in. Incomparable with the UK.

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A pathetically simplistic statement. Look at their deaths, R0, and the measures brought in. Incomparable with the UK.

The main measure they brought in which helped, was to bring in stringent border controls - alas, our government has been unwilling from the outset to follow suit.

But it is clear that community spread is now under control in the UK, so providing the right safeguards are there, I see no earthly reason why some in the education profession are so negative about reopening schools here in early June - it is not as though it is being sprung on them at two day's notice. If there are teachers in the at risk groups, then they should not be expected to go into school themselves, but surely there are sufficient younger, healthy teachers around for the modest return to school envisaged.

 

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I paid for it privately. Judging by their email apologising for a 4-hour delay in results, they've been getting a LOT of business!

I see, it's good that you know now though although not the result you wanted. The Mrs had similar to you back in January so would like to know if she might have had it or not.

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Question for  Dev etc. then, same sort of one asked of MM repeatedly because he's expressing his view. Lockdown is prioritising treatment of one illness amongst many that kill people. Why is the person with covid worth more than the cancer patient whose op is cancelled etc.? 

There was an article the other day about implications for global TB deaths because of how far back the covid efforts have set that field back. (1.6m I think was the number the lady was estimating) Why is okay to let those people die to save someone from covid? Is it because a lot of them will be in poorer countries so that's all okay then?

The linear arguments that are used on here to attack (not debate because there's precious little of that) alternative views are thoroughly depressing. Suggest the actions to contain covid are causing a lot of harm and maybe enough harm that the approach needs to be looked at again and you're callous and putting the economy before people's lives. Advocate an action that will as a consequence kill people (or allow them to die to be less emotive) and you're correct and a moral person <blink>

Out of curiosity in the event of a serious explosion affecting hundreds or thousands of people how do medics decide who to treat. Do they look at someone with a serious leg wound that they can definitely save the same as they do someone with multiple injuries that would take many medics to work on for a slim chance of saving them (and that they know will mean others die that they would have saved whilst working on this person) Or do they have to make a (cr*ppy) call and save the injured who would definitely survive with treatment?

When looking at operations do they say have it because we know you'll die without it or do they take in to account the harm that having the op may cause versus the benefits? You know, kind of like the harm an unspecific society wide lockdown will cause versus the harm it saves? How do you balance the mental health issues (and deaths) isolation will cause versus more people getting out and exercising due to the lockdown. How many are doing that versus those that are just sat around doing eff all and becoming a future heart attack or cancer victim as a result? How many lives are being saved due to a reduction in pollution versus deaths caused due to fear of visiting medical establishments,or a funnelling of resources and research away from a different medical field? Any clear answers on that or just opinions?

It's not heresy or an automatic sign of a callous, uncaring person to look at things from a different point of view. Doesn't necessarily make it right of course, any more than the opposing view does. 

Same thing I've said before I know and presumably won't mean anything now either. Must be nice to have that certainty and grasp of an extremely complicated and evolving situation to know so unequivocally what the best course of action is.

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My antibody test results are in! Not the result I was hoping for, but there you go... can't win 'em all!

 

 

Patient	DARREN
Sample Date	13/05/2020
Report Date	14/05/2020

 

SARS-CoV-2 Virus IgG Antibody. Processed on Abbott Architect ci8200 analyser

Test	Results
SARS-CoV-2 IgG	NEGATIVE

Blimey and you were really rough 

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Haha. Salted! Thank you.

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