The Weather Outlook

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Gandalf The White
24 December 2018 16:42:52

 

Indeed Michael.

It is also worth noting that very cold air over the NE of North America doesn't guarantee cyclogenesis off the eastern seaboard and even if areas of low pressure are generated the track they take depends on the jetstream pattern.  It is as possible that the jet dips over North America and then heads north, creating a ridge in the Atlantic.

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 

Just to emphasise the point, the 12z GFS offers up a perfect example:

Deep plunge of Arctic air into NE North America; a low develops off the coast of Virgina/Maryland and undergoes rapid cyclogenesis and then heads north to the west of Greenland.

 


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



Shropshire
24 December 2018 16:46:16

Yet another run from the GFS that builds promising looking heights at day 10 only to quickly sink things by day 12 as the PV ramps up.

 


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David M Porter
24 December 2018 16:51:07

Yet another run from the GFS that builds promising looking heights at day 10 only to quickly sink things by day 12 as the PV ramps up.

 

Originally Posted by: Shropshire 

I think 10 days is about as far ahead as we should be looking with any degree of confidence at the moment with all that is going on.

No person experienced in following the model output would take any solution shown in deep FI of any GFS op run as a given, be it a cold or mild scenario.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"A body of men holding themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody." – Thomas Paine

moomin75
24 December 2018 16:56:23
These would be fantastic charts in June/July.

As it is, they are just horrendous for anything remotely interesting. Merry Christmas all. Hopefully things will start to change soon because this snoozefest can't go on for ever surely?


Witney, Oxfordshire

100m ASL

Bertwhistle
24 December 2018 17:04:37

 

Even with all of that, is there any direct connection with the SSW event in Winter 2013 and the pattern in the following March? Could not this have occurred independently of SSW? 

Originally Posted by: Chunky Pea 

Hi CP; the fact is, for a host of other reasons, just about any setup is possible without a SSW event. SSW, it seems, increases the probability of certain conditions occurring and persisting.

This link gives a summary of N Hemisphere SSW peaks (go to p66) and you can see that some very cold spells with Ely and Nly components, some well quoted, precede SSW peaks. 

Some are surprising: 23.1.87; 22.2.79; 28.1.63.

Others seem much closer to surface cold than the oft-quoted 2 week downward propagation period, including 4.12.81 and 1.1.85- in the latter case, the cold setup was red-carpeted on New Year's Day with an elongated Atlantic HP, and established 3 days later as LP to the NE began pumping cold air out of Scandinavia. In the 1981 case, there was a distinct line marked by a far-reaching frontal boundary behind which a very distinctly different airmass brewed.

Point here being to illustrate not the obvious- that some SSWs do not deliver, which I think everyone knows; but that some macroscale setups involving reversals in long- and broad-fetch prevalent airstreams are not SSW dependent. 

The link:https://www.earth-syst-sci-data.net/9/63/2017/essd-9-63-2017.pdf

 

 


Bertie, Itchen Valley.

Retire while you can still press the 'retire now' button.

tallyho_83
24 December 2018 17:09:45

These would be fantastic charts in June/July.
As it is, they are just horrendous for anything remotely interesting. Merry Christmas all. Hopefully things will start to change soon because this snoozefest can't go on for ever surely?

Originally Posted by: moomin75 

 

I know what you mean and share your frustration - we have already been through 1/3 rd of the winter next week and would have had little if any frost let alone snow so we do hope to see something 'wintry' perhaps?

I guess the only comfort is the SSW and the fact that the Met Office/BBC etc have been very confident about much colder weather over the Uk  from mid month on wards (Jan 2019) and the GFS only goes until 9th Jan so perhaps we need to wait at least another 5 more days to see anything cold turning up on the model outputs? 

BCC gone for a block over Greenland and to our north in Jan as do many other models including ECMWF and Met Office Glosea 5. seasonal with below average pressure over central Europe. What we see now in the GFS esp the OP shorter range is the exact opposite! 


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

---------------------------------------

Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

Bertwhistle
24 December 2018 17:11:58

The US guys are talking increasingly of cold plunges into the North Eastern States into January, and I worry that this could manifest itself with the PV over Canada and a fast flow Westerly across the Atlantic - all too familar. I think if the models start to converge on the High sinking by day 11 or so then it will be a squeaky bum time for hopes of Northern blocking.

 

Originally Posted by: Shropshire 

Displaced PV fragment over E Canada can quite conveniently lead to longitudinal HP blocking over mid-Atlantic and co-vortical attraction to quasitropical cyclogenetic features off the E seaboard.  Big Atlantic block doesn't always need full N blocking to bring the right conditions.


Bertie, Itchen Valley.

Retire while you can still press the 'retire now' button.

David M Porter
24 December 2018 17:13:53

These would be fantastic charts in June/July.
As it is, they are just horrendous for anything remotely interesting. Merry Christmas all. Hopefully things will start to change soon because this snoozefest can't go on for ever surely?

Originally Posted by: moomin75 

Not the best set-up for cold fans for sure Kieren. That said, I'd sooner take what we have now and what is being suggested for the coming week or so over almost non-stop wind and rain, like we were getting this time three years ago.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"A body of men holding themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody." – Thomas Paine

doctormog
24 December 2018 17:15:32

 

Displaced PV fragment over E Canada can quite conveniently lead to longitudinal HP blocking over mid-Atlantic and co-vortical attraction to quasitropical cyclogenetic features off the E seaboard.  Big Atlantic block doesn't always need full N blocking to bring the right conditions.

Originally Posted by: Bertwhistle 

I suspect that after many years of weather watching Ian is entirely aware of that. 

At a glance there seems to be increasing disagreement on the 12z GFS ensemble data from as early as day 5.


Chunky Pea
24 December 2018 17:27:48

 

Hi CP; the fact is, for a host of other reasons, just about any setup is possible without a SSW event. SSW, it seems, increases the probability of certain conditions occurring and persisting.

This link gives a summary of N Hemisphere SSW peaks (go to p66) and you can see that some very cold spells with Ely and Nly components, some well quoted, precede SSW peaks. 

Some are surprising: 23.1.87; 22.2.79; 28.1.63.

Others seem much closer to surface cold than the oft-quoted 2 week downward propagation period, including 4.12.81 and 1.1.85- in the latter case, the cold setup was red-carpeted on New Year's Day with an elongated Atlantic HP, and established 3 days later as LP to the NE began pumping cold air out of Scandinavia. In the 1981 case, there was a distinct line marked by a far-reaching frontal boundary behind which a very distinctly different airmass brewed.

Point here being to illustrate not the obvious- that some SSWs do not deliver, which I think everyone knows; but that some macroscale setups involving reversals in long- and broad-fetch prevalent airstreams are not SSW dependent. 

The link:https://www.earth-syst-sci-data.net/9/63/2017/essd-9-63-2017.pdf

Originally Posted by: Bertwhistle 

Thanks BW for all that info.  lots to consider. 

I love this little term from the link: "SSW Compendium' 

 

 


Patrick,

East Galway, Ireland.

tallyho_83
24 December 2018 17:40:30

 

I suspect that after many years of weather watching Ian is entirely aware of that. 

At a glance there seems to be increasing disagreement on the 12z GFS ensemble data from as early as day 5.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 

 

True in some ways!

Take December 2010- well?...from what I remember, there was no SSW in November that gave us the coldest December in 100 years?


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

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Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

tallyho_83
24 December 2018 17:46:09

Just wanted to share this for contrasting purposes and how boring and uneventful our weather is!

Ensembles for NYC:

One day it's +10c @ 850hpa and next it's -10c @ 850hpa! 

 

London:  - Apart from one or two colder outliers. - boring!


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

---------------------------------------

Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

marco 79
24 December 2018 18:23:34

NE USA looking cold after christmas....jet over States dives SE....then ridges high in Central Atlantic....(GFS).....strong jet in Pacific at 50N....Gfs models.PV strat to reform over Greenland\NECanada..hopefully not....


Home : Mid Leicestershire ...135m ASL
Weathermac
24 December 2018 18:41:46

 

Not the best set-up for cold fans for sure Kieren. That said, I'd sooner take what we have now and what is being suggested for the coming week or so over almost non-stop wind and rain, like we were getting this time three years ago.

Originally Posted by: David M Porter 

Agreed david and with the roof of my car iced over before 6pm tonight and fog patches forming id say its pretty wintry tbh and certainly beats wind and rain.

JACKO4EVER
24 December 2018 23:14:47
Just got back from the pub,,, and the latest output looks a complete bore fest

Happy Christmas!

fairweather
25 December 2018 00:30:57

Happy Christmas and fingers crossed for  some better charts for January !


S.Essex, 42m ASL
tallyho_83
25 December 2018 01:17:59

 

P02 of the 18z ensembles...?

Just for fun! Only 1 member of the 18z ensemble runs has a northerly during 2md week of Jan 19.

Wishful thinking here but something to take note of. Hope we'll see.more runs like this in the coming days and weeks once this SSW has reached the N.Pole!

Merry Xmas everyone.😁


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

---------------------------------------

Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
25 December 2018 07:38:00

Stella charts? Definitely those viewed through a glass of Stella Artois.

I don't see anything stellar in the next 10 days or so, neither the great majority of charts nor in the ensembles. Frost if we're lucky, fog if we're not, but the ensembles do show a dip to (just) below average temps at the end of the run around Jan 7/8th


War is God's way of teaching Americans geography - Ambrose Bierce

Chichester 12m asl

Ally Pally Snowman
25 December 2018 08:15:51

Merry Christmas TWO people. Gfs Para the most generous this festive morning slim pickings though.

 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
four
  • four
  • Advanced Member
25 December 2018 08:27:37
A rather dry spell coming up by the look of it anyway.
Ally Pally Snowman
25 December 2018 08:40:37

News from the t'other side suggests the ECM 46 is still solidly cold weeks 3 to 6.

 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Brian Gaze
25 December 2018 09:23:01

News from the t'other side suggests the ECM 46 is still solidly cold weeks 3 to 6.

 

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

Really? Out to Jan 20th it offers virtually nothing cold at all apart from a 1C anomaly in Scotland and Northern Ireland during week 4. Weeks 5 and 6 may be more promising but by then we're into Feb and it means the cold has been pushed back yet again.


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

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JACKO4EVER
25 December 2018 09:26:52
Morning all, really grim this morning if it’s cold your after. Should be dry though, hopefully with a little sunshine if we are lucky.

Time to leave model watching for a while, this is about as dire as it can get.

Happy Christmas everyone

Ally Pally Snowman
25 December 2018 09:29:44

 

Really? Out to Jan 20th it offers virtually nothing cold at all apart from a 1C anomaly in Scotland and Northern Ireland during week 4. Weeks 5 and 6 may be more promising but by then we're into Feb and it means the cold has been pushed back yet again.

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

 

OK well not so good then . At the the moment it doesn't look like the SSW is going to work for the UK.  which is a massive disappointment. 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.

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