tallyho_83
18 October 2018 13:10:09

Originally Posted by: LeedsLad123 

They're usually rubbish.


No four months of snow and freezing cold then? 


But i just look at the latest NAO and AO - Both going negative:


This can only mean one thing esp if little or no rain is forecast for the next week to 10 days for many parts of the UK. End of October and beginning of November could start on a very blocked and cold note. - We have had months of a positive AO and NAO so it's about time we trended negative, we are bound to go negative at some stage! Also both the AO and NAO are in sync! 



AO



Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
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Magical Moon
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KevBrads1
18 October 2018 14:17:11

Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 


AccuWeather's previous winter forecast so we can see how Accu rate they were:


Winter 15/16 - (during the super El Nino):



 


Winter 16/17



 


Winter 17/18:



 


 


NOW THE LATEST: - No one knows!



 


No one knew the blocking in summer would last for months and months!? What's to stop this going into winter? We have had wetter spells but not the typical zonal pattern or wet and windy, with autumnal gales. Or frequent weather patterns we would normally get for this time of year...at our latitude!? It's early day's but here in the south at least, the next 10 days look set to stay dry and settled now!



Their winter forecasts leave a lot to be desired. 2015-16 and 2016-17 were very poor. 2017-18 wasn't that brilliant neither. 


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tallyho_83
18 October 2018 17:28:39

Originally Posted by: KevBrads1 


 


Their winter forecasts leave a lot to be desired. 2015-16 and 2016-17 were very poor. 2017-18 wasn't that brilliant neither. 



 


Yes their winter 2015/16 forecast would have been accurate if it was the forecast for last winter 2017/18. Their forecast for winter 2016/2017 was poor for eastern Europe esp the south east when they had almost 1 month of cold and snow whilst the UK esp N. Ireland and Scotland were baking the SE were freezing cold remember from middle or late December 2016 right the way until end of Jan 2017 the south east of Europe froze! - But accu weather forecast it to be a warmer winter 16/17 for the EAST and SE of Europe as you can see on map but let's remind ourselves!?


https://www.theguardian.com/weather/2017/jan/08/freezing-conditions-cause-death-and-chaos-across-europe


I am surprised that they said no beast from the east either.. for the winter 2018/19!? or something like no return of the beast from the east! Gosh! Bit of a damp squib! 


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
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Magical Moon
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tallyho_83
19 October 2018 00:10:14
Wanted to share this...!?



I dislike how it's Cepstral's like computer Robotic voice generators !!

Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
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Magical Moon
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Saint Snow
19 October 2018 08:59:05

With some cold and a little wintry (for some) charts cropping up regularly over the past few days, I really hope this winter doesn't shoot it's load prematurely like the summer did (when for most of the UK the excellent weather fizzled out in the second half of July)


The one bright spot would be that December is the month I most want hard winter weather to hit, and if we had the inverse equivalent of the brilliant June, I'd be happy (a repeat of either Dec 09 or Dec 10 would be most pleasant)


 


 



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Maunder Minimum
19 October 2018 09:04:23

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


With some cold and a little wintry (for some) charts cropping up regularly over the past few days, I really hope this winter doesn't shoot it's load prematurely like the summer did (when for most of the UK the excellent weather fizzled out in the second half of July)


The one bright spot would be that December is the month I most want hard winter weather to hit, and if we had the inverse equivalent of the brilliant June, I'd be happy (a repeat of either Dec 09 or Dec 10 would be most pleasant)


 


 



Did you see Gavin's vid on 1878-79?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrBtnt0fqlk


Mouth watering - imagine if we were to get a repeat.


New world order coming.
roger63
  • roger63
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
19 October 2018 09:58:14

CONTEXT: The El Niño-Southern Oscillation (ENSO) is currently in a neutral phase (neither El Niño nor La Niña). Long-range prediction systems indicate that development of El Niño conditions within the outlook period is more likely than not. In late autumn and early winter, El Niño increases the chances of the North Atlantic Oscillation (NAO) being in its positive phase. This would imply a moderate increase in the likelihood of milder-than-average conditions for the UK. The Quasi-Biennial Oscillation (QBO), an oscillation of the equatorial winds in the stratosphere, is entering a westerly phase. It will remain in this state throughout the coming winter. A westerly phase of the QBO also increases the likelihood of a positive phase of the NAO in the latter part of the outlook period. North Atlantic sea surface temperatures continue to show a pattern of colder-than-average conditions south of 30°N and north of 50°N, with warmer-than-average conditions in a band in between. This pattern extends to depth in the sub-surface ocean so is likely to persist through autumn and into early winter. Like the other global influences, its effect in the outlook period is to increase the chances of a positive phase of the NAO. This would be expected to increase the likelihood of mild conditions in spite of the flow of air potentially crossing the region of below-average sea surface temperatures. For October-November-December, the Met Office long-range prediction system shows an increased likelihood of positive NAO and thereby a greater-than-usual chance of mild conditions. Agreement with long-range predictions from other global centres is mixed, however, with some suggesting greater chances of weather patterns that would bring colder-than-normal conditions to the UK. Nevertheless, the Met Office system’s prediction is more consistent with the expected effects of global driving factors (see above). Consequently, there is an increased likelihood of milder-thanaverage conditions, and a decrease in the likelihood of colder-thanaverage conditions, over the 3-month period (see figure T2). This does not preclude occasional spells of colder weather.


For those who haven't seen the contingency  3 month forecast.Will be interesting to see if an changes appear in next  3 month forecast due end October,

roger63
  • roger63
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
19 October 2018 10:01:58






























EL NIÑO/SOUTHERN OSCILLATION (ENSO)
DIAGNOSTIC DISCUSSION
issued by
CLIMATE PREDICTION CENTER/NCEP/NWS
and the International Research Institute for Climate and Society
 
11 October 2018
 

ENSO Alert System Status: El Niño Watch


 

Synopsis:  El Niño is favored to form in the next couple of months and continue through the Northern Hemisphere winter 2018-19 (70-75% chance).


ENSO-neutral continued during September, but with increasingly more widespread regions of above-average sea surface temperatures (SSTs) across the equatorial Pacific Ocean [Fig. 1]. Over the last month, all four Niño index values increased, with the latest weekly values in each region near +0.7°C [Fig. 2]. Positive subsurface temperature anomalies (averaged across 180°-100°W) also increased during the last month [Fig. 3], due to the expansion and strengthening of above-average temperatures at depth across the equatorial Pacific [Fig. 4]. Convection was increasingly suppressed over Indonesia and around the Date Line [Fig. 5]. Low-level westerly wind anomalies were evident over the western and east-central Pacific, with some of the strongest anomalies occurring over the eastern Pacific during the past week. Upper-level wind anomalies were easterly over the east-central Pacific. Overall, the oceanic and atmospheric conditions reflected ENSO-neutral, but with recent trends indicative of a developing El Niño.


The majority of models in the IRI/CPC plume predict El Niño to form during the fall and continue through the winter [Fig. 6]. The official forecast favors the formation of a weak El Niño, consistent with the recent strengthening of westerly wind anomalies and positive temperature trends in the surface and subsurface ocean. In summary, El Niño is favored to form in the next couple of months and continue through the Northern Hemisphere winter 2018-19 (70-75% chance; click CPC/IRI consensus forecast for the chance of each outcome for each 3-month period)


Maunder Minimum
19 October 2018 10:56:16

The WMO predicted a weak El Nino back in September:


https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-45471409


How will meteorologists react if we get the El Nino combined with a westerly phase QBO and a consistent negative NAO signal this winter?


In theory, the above combination should not be possible, so it would be most interesting if it did occur.


New world order coming.
tallyho_83
19 October 2018 13:19:13

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


The WMO predicted a weak El Nino back in September:


https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-45471409


How will meteorologists react if we get the El Nino combined with a westerly phase QBO and a consistent negative NAO signal this winter?


In theory, the above combination should not be possible, so it would be most interesting if it did occur.



 


So with Solar minimum we could still end up having a milder than average winter? - I don't see how it can get wet? we saw wetter spells in August but nothing to write home about - at least for the south the drought continues - and even if we go westerly QBO it will take a while for it to affect on the troposphere would it not? 


Plus there are so many conflicting signals - the NAO looks set to trend negative as well as the AO:


Which causes confusion - surely if we are approach a weak El Nino and turning into a westerly QBO we should be staying positive?? or have i misunderstood?



AO looks very negative which syncs witht he NAO too? Both are going - negative end of month into November. 



 


Also i'd just like to share Gav's weather video for November:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYCVauXTzpI


 


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
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Magical Moon
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tallyho_83
20 October 2018 01:53:53
Fingers crossed Brian:

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twoother/twocontent.aspx?type=hpnews&id=4557&title=A+cold+winter+incoming? 


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
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Magical Moon
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four
  • four
  • Advanced Member
21 October 2018 16:01:23

Originally Posted by: four 

Probably a sudden switch to winter same as the sudden switch to spring - third week of October or thereabouts.
Basically we have been in a more continental regime for months now. Blocking.


A week late but here we go.


tallyho_83
21 October 2018 22:31:33

Originally Posted by: four 



A week late but here we go.



 


It's a fact really ! looking back since that SSW that game us cold and snow end of Feb and into 2nd & 3rd week of March - we never really had a spring - by mid - late April we experiences 25c here in the south of the UK. - No April showers of hail or CB's etc!? Just went straight to summer more or less. Maybe now we are going from summer (was 18 to 19c today, which is remarkably warm for end of October) to winter maxes of +8 or +9c by next weekend in the south!?


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
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Magical Moon
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tallyho_83
22 October 2018 22:20:26


 


Months and months of positivity and only 1-2 days of negativity in the NAO!?


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


tallyho_83
24 October 2018 10:17:55

JFF - Amsterdam's weather in the run up to xmas:


 


Daytime maxes of -7 and nighttime mins of -17c


From mid December - easterly winds start and continue into New Year! 

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twoforecasts/daily-ultra-long-range.aspx?region=8&page=2


 


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


tallyho_83
25 October 2018 19:36:47
Well - Considering meteorological winter is 5 weeks away with an unusual northerly blast this weekend, followed by brief milder spell then blocking coming up around 2nd week of November and a negative NAO and AO why is everyone so quiet? Also the fact we are at Solar Minimum there seems to be little discussion on here? Why is everyone so muted? I thought this winter there is so much to discuss?

Blocking has been around and HP's esp for the south UK since April. This HP is on going! Will 6-7 months of drier than average weather continue? Who knows!?
Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
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roger63
  • roger63
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
29 October 2018 12:18:35

The forecast presented here is for November and the average of the November-December-January period for the United Kingdom as a whole. The forecast for November will be superseded by the long-range information on the public weather forecast web page (www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/ forecast/ #?tab=regionalForecast), starting from 5th November 2018. This forecast is based on information from observations, several numerical prediction systems and expert judgement. SUMMARY – TEMPERATURE: For November, and for November-December-January as a whole, above-average temperatures are slightly more probable than below-average temperatures. Overall, the probability that the UK-average temperature for November-December-January will fall into the coldest of our five categories is between 15% and 20%, and the probability that it will fall into the warmest of our five categories is around 25% (the 1981-2010 probability for each of these categories is 20%). CONTEXT: Tropical Pacific sea surface temperatures have recently warmed and are now on the threshold of El Niño. Further development is expected, leading to a moderate El Niño event within the outlook period. In late autumn and early winter, El Niño increases the chances of the North Atlantic Oscillation (NAO) being in its positive phase. This would imply an increase in the likelihood of milder-than-average conditions for the UK. The Quasi-Biennial Oscillation (QBO), an oscillation of the equatorial winds in the stratosphere, is entering a westerly phase. It will remain in this state throughout the coming winter. A westerly phase of the QBO also increases the likelihood of a positive phase of the NAO in the outlook period. North Atlantic sea surface temperatures continue to show a pattern of colderthan-average conditions south of 30°N and north of 50°N, with warmer-thanaverage conditions in a band in between. Like the other global influences, its effect in the outlook period is to moderately increase the chances of a positive phase of the NAO. This would be expected to increase the likelihood of milder-than-average conditions, though this would be partially offset by westerly winds blowing across the below-average sea surface temperatures to the west of the UK. For November, the Met Office long-range prediction system, along with other systems from prediction centres around the world, suggests an increased likelihood of high pressure over Europe to the east of the UK. With the UK being on the edge of this feature, there is uncertainty in the degree to which a colder, continental influence will be felt, as against a milder influence due to winds from the Atlantic. This results in a balanced outlook for the chances of above- and below-average temperatures, with above-average temperatures only slightly more likely (see left-hand graph of figure T2). For November-December-January, the Met Office long-range prediction system shows an increase in the likelihood of a positive phase of the NAO and thereby a greater-than-usual chance of mild conditions. Agreement with long-range predictions from other global centres is mixed, however, with a significant minority suggesting greater chances of weather patterns that would bring colder-than-normal conditions to the UK. As a result, while there is an increased likelihood of milder-than-average conditions (see right-hand graph of figure T2), this increase is modest. The chances of colder-thanaverage conditions, and impacts from cold weather, remain reasonably close to normal. Given this overall outlook, the highest chance of any cold weather impacts is towards the end of the outlook period.


 


The METO office 3 month contingency forecast continues on the mild side with any cold conditions more likely later in the winter.

Stormchaser
29 October 2018 12:41:47

Weak El Nino winters have the potential to encourage SSW events Jan-Feb, but a wQBO discourages SSWs Dec-Feb as it helps the vortex to 'rebuff' attempted intrusions from troposphere-stratosphere wave breaks and deflect them equatorward (otherwise, they punch in, continue poleward and disrupt the vortex circulation).


This in itself suggests a 'maybe, but probably not' sort of winter with respect to big cold weather outbreaks.


However, there is uncertainty over whether the El Nino might take on a more 'Modoki' type configuration with peak anomalies in the Central Pacific. This is what a lot of long-range models are predicting, and it more or less inverts the Nov-Dec NAO response from that of a classical El Nino; negative would be encouraged instead of positive. It's not an infallible link though - hence 'encouraged' instead of 'forced'.


There's also low solar activity to consider, and most uncertain of all, the role of extreme deficits of Arctic sea ice coverage. At this point I've hit the limit as to what I can freely say but there are others on here who have plenty of insight on these factors .


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tallyho_83
29 October 2018 17:51:37

Originally Posted by: roger63 


 In late autumn and early winter, El Niño increases the chances of the North Atlantic Oscillation (NAO) being in its positive phase. This would imply an increase in the likelihood of milder-than-average conditions for the UK. The Quasi-Biennial Oscillation (QBO), an oscillation of the equatorial winds in the stratosphere, is entering a westerly phase. It will remain in this state throughout the coming winter. A westerly phase of the QBO also increases the likelihood of a positive phase of the NAO in the outlook period. 



 


Yes ..but not always true - the NAO and AO has been positive all summer yet we have been well into an easterly QBO despite a positive NAO and AO!? Refer back to my previous post on 22nd October. The graph shows the NAO has been positive all summer whilst we have been in an easterly QBO. So similarly if we are in a westerly QBO we could still get a negative NAO too remember.


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Gray-Wolf
30 October 2018 11:12:46

We now have rumblings about a reversal in the polar stratospheric vortex in mid Nov ( very early for such?) which might be hinting at a pretty wintery spell in December for some parts of the N.Hemisphere?


With low solar in play will it steer any impacts from the polar vortex collapse into our neck of the woods?


White Christmas anyone?


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