The Weather Outlook

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doctormog
30 December 2024 09:19:18

As far as I'm aware it takes the ECM's starting data, then maps it to previous similar outcomes from the ERA (reanalysis) and ECM archive database, blending the charts as necessary if there's not an exact match. It's a sophisticated algorithm, to be sure, and as you say it's consistently beating the traditional models, including ECM, in terms of verification.

I quite like the MC description of it!

These data are provided experimentally as a test of forecasts made by artificial intelligence/machine learning. The calculations for the AI model are completed in one minute! The model was trained with ERA5 reanalyses and old ECMWF high-resolution runs.

Originally Posted by: Retron 

Yes, that’s how I understand it.

This is the most recent (and rather technical) review I can find on the model and its outcomes compared with more “traditional “ methods: 

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2412.15832 


UncleAlbert
30 December 2024 09:44:10
The GFS AI has been rock solid on cold for the last few days and was the first to pick it up but it has wobbled in the sense that it has backed off HP influence towards bringing the LP closer to the east then the south.
The Beast from the East
30 December 2024 09:46:40
Praying the GFS 06z will fall into line with other models re the Storm

It is encouraging that the METO have not yet issued a yellow warning here.  Maybe they are just short staffed at this time of year, I would have expected at least a yellow already. 


Purley, Surrey, 70m ASL

"We have some alternative facts for you"

Kelly-Ann Conway - former special adviser to the President

The Beast from the East
30 December 2024 09:49:07
out to  54hrs, and it looks a little weaker

https://modeles16.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2024123006/gfs-0-54.png?6 


Purley, Surrey, 70m ASL

"We have some alternative facts for you"

Kelly-Ann Conway - former special adviser to the President

Retron
30 December 2024 09:49:35

Praying the GFS 06z will fall into line with other models re the Storm

It is encouraging that the METO have not yet issued a yellow warning here.  Maybe they are just short staffed at this time of year, I would have expected at least a yellow already. 

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 

They issued a yellow yesterday, it covers pretty much all of England and Wales. It will be updated today, no doubt, and there's a moderate chance of an amber for the far SE I'd suggest.

As for the 6z GFS, it at long last weakens the low, turning it into an elongated trough. It remains to be seen how strong the winds are, though, as those higher-res charts aren't quite out yet.


Leysdown, north Kent
The Beast from the East
30 December 2024 09:50:42
Praise the Lord of Pete Tong! Its gone. lets see what the control shows later

https://modeles16.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2024123006/gfs-0-60.png?6 


Purley, Surrey, 70m ASL

"We have some alternative facts for you"

Kelly-Ann Conway - former special adviser to the President

The Beast from the East
30 December 2024 09:52:02

They issued a yellow yesterday, it covers pretty much all of England and Wales. It will be updated today, no doubt, and there's a moderate chance of an amber for the far SE I'd suggest.

As for the 6z GFS, it at long last weakens the low, turning it into an elongated trough. It remains to be seen how strong the winds are, though, as those higher-res charts aren't quite out yet.

Originally Posted by: Retron 

I see. Normally it comes through on my phone, but hasnt this time. 


Purley, Surrey, 70m ASL

"We have some alternative facts for you"

Kelly-Ann Conway - former special adviser to the President

Retron
30 December 2024 09:53:23

Praise the Lord of Pete Tong! Its gone. lets see what the control shows later

https://modeles16.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2024123006/gfs-0-60.png?6 

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 

There are a few knock-on effects. One, the spatial area of strong winds is now much smaller, two, winds now peak in the low 60s rather than the mid to high 70s, and three, it means the loss of much of the snow for our friends in the Midlands north. I'm happy with that, but others' views may vary! 😁

Wednesday evening, from the 0z and then the 6z. The latter has, finally, at long last, caught up with the other models. A cautious "phew" is in order.

https://images.meteociel.fr/im/72/14074/69_289UKovf8.GIF 

https://images.meteociel.fr/im/15/19702/63_289UKggd0.GIF 

UserPostedImageUserPostedImage


Leysdown, north Kent
The Beast from the East
30 December 2024 09:53:44

 It remains to be seen how strong the winds are, though, as those higher-res charts aren't quite out yet.

Originally Posted by: Retron 

Hard to tell from this, still very windy but hopefully not damaging

https://modeles16.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2024123006/gfs-14-60.png?6 


Purley, Surrey, 70m ASL

"We have some alternative facts for you"

Kelly-Ann Conway - former special adviser to the President

ballamar
30 December 2024 10:01:57
The less intense the low will have better chances for the cold to get entrenched. Could be looking at a historical January spell
Saint Snow
30 December 2024 10:02:47
That scenario with the deeper low was the only one still standing that brought me snow. Forgive me for not joining in the celebrations...

Martin

Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)

A TWO addict since 14/12/01

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Aneurin Bevan

30 December 2024 10:07:25
So what happened to 06z GFS yesterday being new trend setter,flipped ensemble, cold spell cancelled?
Berkshire
nsrobins
30 December 2024 10:16:56

So what happened to 06z GFS yesterday being new trend setter,flipped ensemble, cold spell cancelled?

Originally Posted by: The Dub Version 

The cancellation was cancelled 😂

No cross-model agreement even for the NYD low let alone the medium term so no conclusions from me yet.


Neil

Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)

Stormchaser, Member TORRO

Chunky Pea
30 December 2024 10:17:03

That scenario with the deeper low was the only one still standing that brought me snow. Forgive me for not joining in the celebrations...

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 

Same here. Just going to go from mild nothingness to chillier nothingness.

EC ens still going with the potentially much milder theme post 240hrs. Last night it showed high pressure dominant; this morning more of a SW to S flow, so nothing really nailed on at all. 


Patrick,

East Galway, Ireland.

fairweather
30 December 2024 10:21:11

Correct....Still a long way to go on this but a Jan 85 repeat looks the top prize.....meanwhile BBC go rain lows of 6oc lots of rain next week for Kent

Originally Posted by: CField 

Is that the same BBC that has telling me that tomorrow will be brighter for the last three weeks? But hey, today is the day 😂


S.Essex, 42m ASL
Retron
30 December 2024 10:21:17

So what happened to 06z GFS yesterday being new trend setter,flipped ensemble, cold spell cancelled?

Originally Posted by: The Dub Version 

It went to the EPS instead, this morning's one having median temperatures on Sunday some 5-8C higher than the previous two runs (down in the south, anyway).

Meanwhile that cautious "phew" from me still stands, but looking through the GEFS there are still a significant number of members keeping the low with its 62+ mph winds, and in some cases well into the 70s. Hopefully it's just yet to catch up with the op and other models.

As for Saint's despondency, look on the bright side - at least up there you still a couple of several minor snow events in the next 7 days (from the 6z op), compared to none whatsoever down here. 😁


Leysdown, north Kent
fairweather
30 December 2024 10:26:09

So what do the charts actually show?

 I don't remember seeing such a wide area of W Europe under 0C before. PPtn in week 1 for Scotland and Portugal; in week 2 in an arc from the Pyrenees to the Alps to the Black Sea, dry-ish for Britain so cold but not very snowy.

Always a good thing which is why we look forward to your daily posts. 😀 I have seen much of Europe sub zero from time to time in the past but only when there has been a "proper" cold spell, so fingers crossed.


S.Essex, 42m ASL
ballamar
30 December 2024 10:28:23
One of the better OP runs I have seen - still in la la land but better than seeing long fetch SW on a euro high.
White Meadows
30 December 2024 10:30:59
The GFS new years mega storm was always going to be a comedy outlier. Very typical of GFS. 

Severe cold potentially becoming entrenched across the country after the weekend. Favoured spots north east facing coasts and high ground. Areas further west not best for snow in the type of setup being modelled, obviously. 

Rob K
30 December 2024 10:35:53
I see we've reached the "OK so it will be cold but it looks bone dry" stage of the run-up to a cold spell 🙂
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl

"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

fairweather
30 December 2024 10:37:02

So what happened to 06z GFS yesterday being new trend setter,flipped ensemble, cold spell cancelled?

Originally Posted by: The Dub Version 

Who knows, but that is what it showed. It is unusual, as Darren said, to get two consecutive sets of ensembles to flip that dramatically for shortish term prospects and I said it was even more unusual for them to flip back cold which they have. We have to be objective and comment on what is presented to us and yesterday was milder, with some support. Fact.  Today things are looking better for cold fans. Coldest spell of the winter for the South and most likely everywhere looks reasonably certain with such a low bar.

So the conclusion from those sets of data, given that even two days from now is unclear still, is that we have a very volatile situation!


S.Essex, 42m ASL
Hippydave
30 December 2024 10:45:17

Yes, that’s how I understand it.

This is the most recent (and rather technical) review I can find on the model and its outcomes compared with more “traditional “ methods: 

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2412.15832 

Originally Posted by: doctormog 

I started to read that, had no idea what most of it meant and gave up on the first page 🤣😳

In terms of the models, it's nice to see GFS flopping back to cold this morning and the ECM AI sticking to it's cold guns.  The ECM op and ens are as per other comments something of a party pooper this morning, although the op at least maintains the cold for Scotland during the Atlantic incursion and does briefly filter the cold air back over the whole country by 10th Jan before a collapsing HP settles things down possibly maintaining cold air at the surface despite the uppers. I'd also imagine the LPs shown to roll through on the 6th and 9th would bring some decent snowfalls for some even if it's just rain IMBY (Scotland on the 6th, somewhere in the Midlands plus Wales maybe on the 9th).

I'll go with my post from yesterday - it's rare that the models stick solidly to a cold evolution but whilst not always the case they do sometimes seem to go a bit mad when they pick up a spoiling signal, then tone that back down over the next couple of runs. Hopefully that's the case this time and ECM creeps back in line, rather than today being a false dawn followed by a more concerted milder flip this evening.

On the wind front for Wednesday latest GFS looks to be toning down the wind speeds a touch, so hopefully that continues although it still has 60+ crossing the south, which is enough to bring some trees down and cause a few problems. I think it's fairly certain it'll be windy on New Years Day down here, just whether it's windy enough to cause more than a few issues is still TBC. 


Home: Tunbridge Wells

Work: Tonbridge

tallyho_83
30 December 2024 10:54:12
Forget the longer term - in the short term the ENS mean for ;London has dipped down to -8c @850hpa on the 3rd according to the 06z ENS so far - so a colder cluster of runs in short term.:

UserPostedImage

#Will see how the rest pans out...


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

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Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

White Meadows
30 December 2024 11:00:43
Tasty set of ensembles creeping out this morning. And to think this time yesterday we were on the brink of some serious wrist slashing. 
idj20
30 December 2024 11:06:08

It went to the EPS instead, this morning's one having median temperatures on Sunday some 5-8C higher than the previous two runs (down in the south, anyway).

Meanwhile that cautious "phew" from me still stands, but looking through the GEFS there are still a significant number of members keeping the low with its 62+ mph winds, and in some cases well into the 70s. Hopefully it's just yet to catch up with the op and other models.

As for Saint's despondency, look on the bright side - at least up there you still a couple of several minor snow events in the next 7 days (from the 6z op), compared to none whatsoever down here. 😁

Originally Posted by: Retron 

I was just putting together my own forecast for Facebook when I noticed how GFS dropped the peak gusts from 81 mph to a more forgiving 64 mph - more or less in line with other models. Will still be a very windy day on the whole with 50 mph gusts but that's manageable stuff in my book, although I'll mention 70 mph gust at exposed areas by the evening in my forecast just to cover my backside. 🤣

Beyond that, then perhaps I might show some interest with the colder air being in place by then, I wouldn't rule out a significant transitional snow-to-rain event somewhere over the UK as Atlantic air try to push away cold air later on down the line. It's still not exactly the most favourite winter set up, though, but until then I'll take the cold but dry and bright conditions in the latter half of this week and hopefully into the weekend.


Home location: Folkestone Harbour.

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