The Weather Outlook

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Ally Pally Snowman
29 December 2024 10:24:44

Yes, unfortunately the 6z GFS ramps the winds up even more - that's widespread 70s to 75s across everywhere from the Midlands south. Atrocious once again, and most discomfiting considering that the 0z op, which had lower speeds, was already above the rest of the GEFS pack.

https://images.meteociel.fr/im/1/5989/84_289UKuuv2.GIF 

UserPostedImage

I can only hope the GFS is still overdoing that low. If not, it'll be widespread destruction and will doubtless be the main headline news. It would also lead to widespread power cuts just as the weather turns much colder!

I still expect a warning to be issued today.

Originally Posted by: Retron 

Amber warnings out today perhaps.


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Retron
29 December 2024 10:27:06

Amber warnings out today perhaps.

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

I'd expect yellow but on the amber track - possibly becoming amber tomorrow if the widespread 60s+ continue to be shown. We'll see soon enough...


Leysdown, north Kent
doctormog
29 December 2024 10:27:47
The output overall suggests somebody somewhere is going to see a lot of snow in the coming 10 days. The details are really messy and I would not like to be a forecaster just now as little changes will have big impacts on the weather experienced and the inevitable “they got it wrong again” from the tabloids etc.

This latest (06z) GFS op run seems to bury the Pennines in snow but the details are very much up for grabs.


Retron
29 December 2024 10:29:43
The 6z ARPEGE ramps up the gusts a notch more compared to the 0z output. This time around it seems to be playing catch-up with the GFS! It now shows widespread mid 60s, with high 60s/low 70s around the coasts.

https://images.meteociel.fr/im/28/3642/arpege_52_98_0dhx2.png 

UserPostedImage

EDIT: Here's the TWO view of the GFS wind gusts - note the mid to high 70s about as inland as you can get! It still baffles me why there's not more interest in the winds.

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/charts/gfs/06_84_windvector_gust.png 

UserPostedImage


Leysdown, north Kent
idj20
29 December 2024 10:33:11
The 06z FGS run (not a misspell) run is having a January 1984 look about it. Frequent rain and wind to the southern portion of the UK, wintry over North England and more so Scotland. I remember how frustrating that was when I was a teenager back in the days (I still had an understanding of synoptics by looking at BBC forecasts and the Guardian weather maps - the latter I still have on me), but these days I'm more resigned to the fact that Winters really "ain't wot" they used to be - especially at this end. 
Home location: Folkestone Harbour.
nsrobins
29 December 2024 10:33:12

I'd expect yellow but on the amber track - possibly becoming amber tomorrow if the widespread 60s+ continue to be shown. We'll see soon enough...

Originally Posted by: Retron 

Your expectations are realistic.

With decent confidence a yellow will be issued in the morning covering Wednesday risks and upgraded to Amber on Tuesday should confidence increase further, which seems likely.


Neil

Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)

Stormchaser, Member TORRO

Rob K
29 December 2024 10:34:49

Looks like the 6z GFS corrects the 0z cold spell into a 2½ day cold snap in the south... at least there's some frontal snow before it chucks it down with rain. It still looks excellent in terms of snow for the Midlands north, however.

Frankly I'd rather lose the snow and lose the winds at the same time, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if instead we lost the snow and kept the winds!

Originally Posted by: Retron 

Certainly fine margins - pushes the low further north so on Sunday it has a max of 12C in London and 0C in Leicester. Rather reminiscent of November where we had a huge temperature gradient across the south. 


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl

"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

nsrobins
29 December 2024 10:37:49

The 06z FGS run (not a misspell) run is having a January 1984 look about it. Frequent rain and wind to the southern portion of the UK, wintry over North England and more so Scotland. I remember how frustrating that was when I was a teenager back in the days (I still had an understanding of synoptics by looking at BBC forecasts and the Guardian weather maps - the latter I still have on me), but these days I'm more resigned to the fact that Winters really "ain't wot" they used to be - especially at this end. 

Originally Posted by: idj20 

The 06Z ‘solution’ from day 7 if you believe such a thing is possible is well within the ENS envelope and a variation on a theme. If expect it to wave around the general idea for a few days.

I’m especially interested in the 3-4day period with severe gales and heavy snow in the mix for the UK.


Neil

Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)

Stormchaser, Member TORRO

idj20
29 December 2024 10:47:22

The 6z ARPEGE ramps up the gusts a notch more compared to the 0z output. This time around it seems to be playing catch-up with the GFS! It now shows widespread mid 60s, with high 60s/low 70s around the coasts.

https://images.meteociel.fr/im/28/3642/arpege_52_98_0dhx2.png 

UserPostedImage

EDIT: Here's the TWO view of the GFS wind gusts - note the mid to high 70s about as inland as you can get! It still baffles me why there's not more interest in the winds.

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/charts/gfs/06_84_windvector_gust.png 

UserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: Retron 

All by a modest 985 mb low which isn't that exceptional (Ciaran last November was 964 mb when it passed almost directly over Kent). Seems that this time round the issue lies with a tight pressure gradient due to high pressure still being close by to the south. 

The one tiny crumb of comfort I might just be able to derive out of this upcoming set up is it being fairly fleeting with hopefully just a few hours of peak gusts on the Wednesday evening as that runner low races through the middle part of the country (but like you say there are still some changes). Darragh was a much more slower moving system with an unusual direction, so the strong winds lasted for literally days.

PS: in a MUCH more IMBY aspect (sorry some of you), I'm also hoping that this forecast wind may just have enough of a SW component for my house to be sheltered by the nearby built-up hilly bit. 🤣


Home location: Folkestone Harbour.
Retron
29 December 2024 10:51:36

All by a modest 985 mb low which isn't that exceptional (Ciaran last November was 964 mb when it passed almost directly over Kent). Seems that this time round the issue lies with a tight pressure gradient due to high pressure still being close by to the south. 

Originally Posted by: idj20 

Well, the good news (if any) is that most of the GEFS keep the winds in the 60s, rather than the 70s. The bad news is that there were some members that supported the op, and this... well, suffice to say that lighter purple colour over Kent, East Anglia etc is 81mph, and there's a smidge of 87mph winds just offshore.

I continue to hope for a downgrade, it's still far enough away that it's plausible.

(And while you're protected from SW'lies, I'd rather have southerlies - my neighbour's massive house shields me nicely! I think it's going to be bog-standard SW'lies though... the 6z GFS has SSW'lies veering WSW'ly during the 70mph+ phase of the storm down here).

https://images.meteociel.fr/im/55/7038/gensfr_4_8_84rpt9.png 

UserPostedImage


Leysdown, north Kent
tallyho_83
29 December 2024 10:59:01
This isn't where the Pete Tong starts is it? On the 06z 0p shows Sat 4th the FAR south west is having a breakdown and temps back into double figures by 4th in far south west? Cold spell lasting 2 days if this came about and last nights runs had the cold lasting until the very end on 13th...? BIG flip and downgrade so i see! Oh well fun to discuss.

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSOPEU06_150_1.pngUserPostedImage 


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

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Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

Retron
29 December 2024 11:00:09
...and talking of downgrades, plenty of the 6z GEFS members support the op, in terms of turning the cold spell into a snap. Clearly the model's picked up on something and it changes the fundamental building blocks of the cold spell. This would be far from the first time, of course, and it remains to be seen whether it's just a wobble or the beginning of the end.
Leysdown, north Kent
Matty H
29 December 2024 11:06:21

I'd expect yellow but on the amber track - possibly becoming amber tomorrow if the widespread 60s+ continue to be shown. We'll see soon enough...

Originally Posted by: Retron 

Hopefully no worse than the last one where we were under a red warning, and it was just a run of the mill storm for here


Yate, Nr Bristol

TBFTEIARBSC

tallyho_83
29 December 2024 11:09:03

18z GFS op run shows at least 3 if not 4 snowfall events in the south from channel lows pushing up and eastwards and stalling/stagnating. The low on 2nd but depends on tracking of it, BUT 4th & again on 5th shows snow, followed by easterly winds and channel low to form and bring snow to the south on 6 and 7th and another channel low on 9th to 11th bringing heavy snow to the south. I looked at the ENS briefly and the OP is a mild outlier between 4th -8th! wow! As for the OP it shows daytime maxes still at or just a smidge above freezing by 13th January and that's a long way off now but goodness me! - The 18z control run plunges the UK into the freezer!

I would be gutted if not one came off despite all that. On the plus side we are seeing upgrades in the cold each run and the positioning of the low is crucial. Timings are almost nailed on but the positioning isn't it could take a southerly track or more northerly. Very interesting times ahead!

The caveat is that NE America are expecting a cold spell as well and usually we all know what this means for the UK, so i will remain cautious until Monday at least. It could all go Pete tong! We have been here before but I can't remember seeing such cold blocked charts in January for several years and even then they have not always verified, so I am remaining cautious!

Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 

After all that looks like nothing will verify now looking at the 06z runs. Sad. What looked like a prolonged cold and wintry spell and blocked pattern with multiple snow events and persistent easterlies have been replaced by westerlies and this annoying Azores ridge to our south! Or am I being too pessimistic here? To me if the 06z verifies it looks like NYD will be more seasonal and 2nd will be cooler and 3rd will be colder than average followed by milder weather on 4th and to remain unsettled and milder thereafter!? I suppose Met Office will have to update their text forecast to show milder wetter weather and removed the newly worded "easterly". But the fact there was so much cross model agreement for cold to remain post 4th January.


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

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Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

Saint Snow
29 December 2024 11:10:26
Loving the GFS 6z

After the NYD rain, MBY gets a couple of hours of back-edge snow as the low pulls away. A cold few days then loads of snow from the feature next Sunday.

UserPostedImage

Track and trajectory is obviously going to change each run, but hoping to be within the sweet area when it gets settled.


Martin

Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)

A TWO addict since 14/12/01

"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."

Aneurin Bevan

ballamar
29 December 2024 11:11:06

...and talking of downgrades, plenty of the 6z GEFS members support the op, in terms of turning the cold spell into a snap. Clearly the model's picked up on something and it changes the fundamental building blocks of the cold spell. This would be far from the first time, of course, and it remains to be seen whether it's just a wobble or the beginning of the end.

Originally Posted by: Retron 

Wouldn’t be interesting if it was guaranteed would it 😂 the snap itself could disappear! If I was Midlands and further North would definitely be prepping for some heavy snow though

Rob K
29 December 2024 11:13:10
GFS brings a lobe of the PV down into the North Atlantic in the latter stages which would pretty much put paid to any cold for the first two or three weeks of January. 

I blame Brian for mentioning “significant cold” on the homepage…


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl

"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

White Meadows
29 December 2024 11:16:06
Despite the 06z climb down there’s quite a pronounced cluster towards -10 mark: 

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/en/show_diagrams.php?geoid=49069&model=gfs&var=2&run=06&lid=ENS&bw=1 

At the surface the suite still translates to a prolonged cold spell:

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/en/show_diagrams.php?geoid=49069&model=gfs&var=202&run=6&lid=ENS&bw=1 

We’re rarely going to see continuous silly 1684 charts like last nights pub run so expect the usual wobbles and caveats. 

Retron
29 December 2024 11:18:03
Wind warnings are out, and yes, they're on the amber track (i.e. yellow at the moment, but with the potential to go amber). They cover pretty much all of England and Wales.

"A deep area of low pressure is expected to cross the UK from the west, bringing a spell of very strong winds. Gusts of 65-75 mph are likely around coasts and hills, especially in the south and west, with 50-60 mph gusts likely fairly widely inland."

There are also some snow warnings for northern England, southern Scotland and Northern Ireland, and again these are on the amber track.

A band of rain in association with a deep low pressure system moving in from the west pushes east on Wednesday. This is likely to turn to snow as it moves into cold air across the northern half of the UK. 2-5 cm and locally nearer 10 cm of snow accumulations are possible widely, with 10-15 cm and locally 20-25 cm over hills with significant drifting due to strong winds.


Leysdown, north Kent
doctormog
29 December 2024 11:20:14
I’m not a fan of the 06z GFS run and never have been so will wait until it has support from this evening’s models before thinking of it as a trend. In the same way as the two (consistent) GFS op runs that preceded this one we’re not in isolation a trend.

The fact that there are now weather warnings out for the coming week for wind, snow and rain sums up the outlook quite well!


ballamar
29 December 2024 11:20:32
Massive split in GEFS hopefully the colder cluster wins for a change. Not too much in between!
tallyho_83
29 December 2024 11:36:36

Massive split in GEFS hopefully the colder cluster wins for a change. Not too much in between!

Originally Posted by: ballamar 

What a split in the 06Z ENS

UserPostedImage


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

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Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

fairweather
29 December 2024 12:01:35

Indeed , I've probably posted 100s if not 1000s of snowy charts on this forum over the years.  How often do they come off? Probably less that 2%.

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

Absolutely - I won't be telling friends and family just yet because that usually does for it ! Funny the trash media and click bait sites don't seemed to have picked up on it yet. Probably because they are so used to making weather extreme stuff up they miss the truth!


S.Essex, 42m ASL
29 December 2024 12:18:21
Odd we all suddenly believe the worst model.
Berkshire
Gandalf The White
29 December 2024 12:47:26

Odd we all suddenly believe the worst model.

Originally Posted by: The Dub Version 

I don’t recall seeing anyone commenting on the NAVGEM output? 🤔😉


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



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