The Weather Outlook

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Gooner
18 December 2021 11:12:32

Stunning run , can't complain at all 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus

Banbury

North Oxfordshire

378 feet A S L



Russwirral
18 December 2021 11:13:04
Hell of a 6z gfs this morning

Expect some more downgrades though... plenty more fun to come


moomin75
18 December 2021 11:15:55

Stunning run , can't complain at all 

Originally Posted by: Gooner 

Reckon even I might see a flake or two in the coming weeks if these verify 🤣🤣


Witney, Oxfordshire

100m ASL

tallyho_83
18 December 2021 11:17:29

Nice upgrade on the 06z run - however the operational run goes from being one of the mildest option on the 25th to one of the coldest option on 26th! So I am keen to see where this GFS 06z Operational sits in amongst it's 850's ENS members. Let's hope this 06z OP GFS isn't a cold outlier or if it is then let's hope other models will follow this trend. This run is totally in line with the Met Office and other long range models like CFS, JMA as well as EC 46 day were showing.


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

---------------------------------------

Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

ballamar
18 December 2021 11:19:56
The way I see it the latest run is always the most accurate as it runs from the most recent data! So this has a better chance than the previous run
Ally Pally Snowman
18 December 2021 11:20:15

Stunning run , can't complain at all 

Originally Posted by: Gooner 

Laughably good , 78/79 esque.


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Gooner
18 December 2021 11:22:00

 

Laughably good , 78/79 esque.

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

One day , just one day 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus

Banbury

North Oxfordshire

378 feet A S L



Ally Pally Snowman
18 December 2021 11:22:18
western100
18 December 2021 11:22:28
We are entering the reliable time frame now for firming up on the Christmas weather

Although too far for details . If a run now shows cold air over the UK on Christmas Day then it’s got more clout than it did 2-3 days ago


Worcestershire / Warwickshire Border

100m ASL

X…..@Weather4u2

Retron
18 December 2021 11:28:57

We are entering the reliable time frame now for firming up on the Christmas weather

Although too far for details . If a run now shows cold air over the UK on Christmas Day then it’s got more clout than it did 2-3 days ago

Originally Posted by: western100 

And if, as it shows here, double figures for most of the day then that has even more clout!

(6z GFS forecast for here for Christmas Day).

The ensembles show good support for a milder blip now over Christmas down here and that goes for ECM too - it's beyond that now where the interesting stuff lies.

Still, a week is a long way away in weather terms and I suspect there will be plenty of adjustments still to come. At least some parts of the UK look like seeing snow, a change from the usual mild mush everywhere!


Leysdown, north Kent
western100
18 December 2021 11:34:15

 

And if, as it shows here, double figures for most of the day then that has even more clout!

(6z GFS forecast for here for Christmas Day).

The ensembles show good support for a milder blip now over Christmas down here and that goes for ECM too - it's beyond that now where the interesting stuff lies.

Still, a week is a long way away in weather terms and I suspect there will be plenty of adjustments still to come. At least some parts of the UK look like seeing snow, a change from the usual mild mush everywhere!

Originally Posted by: Retron 

 

Whats your location?

The boundary line is at the moment Birmingham effectively which is an improvement on the 00z

Another 50 miles and the M4 is in play

Northern UK very good here for a cold and white Christmas based on 06z


Worcestershire / Warwickshire Border

100m ASL

X…..@Weather4u2

Quantum
18 December 2021 11:38:50

I think the 6Z illustrates my point about not being caught too much in the details. That's the coldest and snowiest run I've seen so far this winter and if it comes off (spoiler: it won't) it would be a historic cold spell.


25/26 (850hpa temp) 11 days snow/sleet falling

18/11 (-4) 19/11 (-6) 20/11 (-6) 01/01 (-7) 04/01 (-10) 10/01 (-7) 11/01 (-3) 30/01 (-1) 13/02 (-6) 15/02 (-4) 18/02 (-6)

24/25 10d

18/11 (-6) 19/11 (-6) 23/11 (-2) 22/12 (-5) 04/01 (-5) 05/01 (0)14/02 (0) 15/02 (0)12/03 (-6) 13/03 (-6)

23/24 8d

29/11 (-6) 30/11 (-6) 02/12 (-5) 03/12 (-5) 04/12 (-3) 16/01 (-3) 18/01 (-8)08/02 (-5)

22/23 7d

18/12 (-1)06/03 (-6) 08/03 (-8) 09/03 (-6) 10/03 (-8) 11/03 (-5) 14/03 (-6)

21/22 12d

ballamar
18 December 2021 11:39:44
Op and control in broad agreement fingers crossed it actually happens - too late across the south for Xmas but if we get snow down the line then fine
tallyho_83
18 December 2021 11:40:39

 

And if, as it shows here, double figures for most of the day then that has even more clout!

(6z GFS forecast for here for Christmas Day).

The ensembles show good support for a milder blip now over Christmas down here and that goes for ECM too - it's beyond that now where the interesting stuff lies.

Still, a week is a long way away in weather terms and I suspect there will be plenty of adjustments still to come. At least some parts of the UK look like seeing snow, a change from the usual mild mush everywhere!

Originally Posted by: Retron 

 

That's only if the run materialises. Remember a couple days ago we were looking at a classic or even historical Christmas with the -10c isotherm and easterlies brining in snow showers and now we are back to mild and wet stuff so what's to stop the weather which the model (which shows a very cold and wintry pattern post Christmas) to back track!? 


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

---------------------------------------

Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

western100
18 December 2021 11:41:15

I think the 6Z illustrates my point about not being caught too much in the details. That's the coldest and snowiest run I've seen so far this winter and if it comes off (spoiler: it won't) it would be a historic cold spell.

Originally Posted by: Quantum 

Indeed

i fully expect the line to move up and down many times. It could be all the UK by the 12z or just Scotland by the 12z


Worcestershire / Warwickshire Border

100m ASL

X…..@Weather4u2

Quantum
18 December 2021 11:43:58

In fact quite frankly the 6Z is a dangerous cold spell that we probably don't want during COVID.

It is extreme on a 2010 type scale.

The 0Z has a fairly medicore cold snap. It just shows how small differences at even a range of 120h can make such a huge difference.

 


25/26 (850hpa temp) 11 days snow/sleet falling

18/11 (-4) 19/11 (-6) 20/11 (-6) 01/01 (-7) 04/01 (-10) 10/01 (-7) 11/01 (-3) 30/01 (-1) 13/02 (-6) 15/02 (-4) 18/02 (-6)

24/25 10d

18/11 (-6) 19/11 (-6) 23/11 (-2) 22/12 (-5) 04/01 (-5) 05/01 (0)14/02 (0) 15/02 (0)12/03 (-6) 13/03 (-6)

23/24 8d

29/11 (-6) 30/11 (-6) 02/12 (-5) 03/12 (-5) 04/12 (-3) 16/01 (-3) 18/01 (-8)08/02 (-5)

22/23 7d

18/12 (-1)06/03 (-6) 08/03 (-8) 09/03 (-6) 10/03 (-8) 11/03 (-5) 14/03 (-6)

21/22 12d

western100
18 December 2021 11:48:19

In fact quite frankly the 6Z is a dangerous cold spell that we probably don't want during COVID.

It is extreme on a 2010 type scale.

The 0Z has a fairly medicore cold snap. It just shows how small differences at even a range of 120h can make such a huge difference.

 

Originally Posted by: Quantum 

I was saying the other day, global Synoptics will never be as good for the UK to experience a cold spell. Practically everything you want for a cold scenario is set up across the globe

It doesn’t surprise me to see these sort of charts based on the above 

Obviously chances of things becoming severe are small but definitely cold is a good bet 


Worcestershire / Warwickshire Border

100m ASL

X…..@Weather4u2

Quantum
18 December 2021 11:53:38

 

I was saying the other day, global Synoptics will never be as good for the UK to experience a cold spell. Practically everything you want for a cold scenario is set up across the globe

It doesn’t surprise me to see these sort of charts based on the above 

Obviously chances of things becoming severe are small but definitely cold is a good bet 

Originally Posted by: western100 

I do think the chances of a severe cold spell are unusually good though (though perhaps a 06Z type scenario only has a 10% chance) because such cold air has set up/is setting up over Europe. It seems that one big problem, especially at this time of year is that even if you get good synoptics you don't have deep cold to tap into.

That will not be a problem here. So given the right synoptics we could plausibly get a direct route to Siberia via Scandanavia or the Atlantic arctic which would result in that 06Z scenario with half a metre of snow for many parts of the UK and near double digit maxima during the day as we saw in 2010.

But the synoptics to get that to happen, as you say, require alot of things to happen at the same time so I'd still rate it as unlikely.

The most likely scenario at the moment is an average cold spell around xmas and especially after xmas with some snow but probably fairly forgettable.

 


25/26 (850hpa temp) 11 days snow/sleet falling

18/11 (-4) 19/11 (-6) 20/11 (-6) 01/01 (-7) 04/01 (-10) 10/01 (-7) 11/01 (-3) 30/01 (-1) 13/02 (-6) 15/02 (-4) 18/02 (-6)

24/25 10d

18/11 (-6) 19/11 (-6) 23/11 (-2) 22/12 (-5) 04/01 (-5) 05/01 (0)14/02 (0) 15/02 (0)12/03 (-6) 13/03 (-6)

23/24 8d

29/11 (-6) 30/11 (-6) 02/12 (-5) 03/12 (-5) 04/12 (-3) 16/01 (-3) 18/01 (-8)08/02 (-5)

22/23 7d

18/12 (-1)06/03 (-6) 08/03 (-8) 09/03 (-6) 10/03 (-8) 11/03 (-5) 14/03 (-6)

21/22 12d

western100
18 December 2021 11:58:38

 

I do think the chances of a severe cold spell are unusually good though (though perhaps a 06Z type scenario only has a 10% chance) because such cold air has set up/is setting up over Europe. It seems that one big problem, especially at this time of year is that even if you get good synoptics you don't have deep cold to tap into.

That will not be a problem here. So given the right synoptics we could plausibly get a direct route to Siberia via Scandanavia or the Atlantic arctic which would result in that 06Z scenario with half a metre of snow for many parts of the UK and near double digit maxima during the day as we saw in 2010.

But the synoptics to get that to happen, as you say, require alot of things to happen at the same time so I'd still rate it as unlikely.

The most likely scenario at the moment is an average cold spell around xmas and especially after xmas with some snow but probably fairly forgettable.

 

Originally Posted by: Quantum 

I agree with all of it 

Looking at all the models each day for the last few weeks , ive not seen Scandi as cold as this for a while. 

If the LPs on the 12z and beyond continue to dig S then it will continue to prolong cold prospects and avoid westerly influences 


Worcestershire / Warwickshire Border

100m ASL

X…..@Weather4u2

Quantum
18 December 2021 12:07:09

One other point I want to quickly make.

The 6Z being so extreme is not immediately obvious from 850hpa line graphs. The 850hpa temp is often around or slightly above -10 which is cold but not insane (say compared to 2018 where we saw <-15C). Also goes to show the 850hpa temp is not the be all and end all when it comes to cold spell severity.

 

 


25/26 (850hpa temp) 11 days snow/sleet falling

18/11 (-4) 19/11 (-6) 20/11 (-6) 01/01 (-7) 04/01 (-10) 10/01 (-7) 11/01 (-3) 30/01 (-1) 13/02 (-6) 15/02 (-4) 18/02 (-6)

24/25 10d

18/11 (-6) 19/11 (-6) 23/11 (-2) 22/12 (-5) 04/01 (-5) 05/01 (0)14/02 (0) 15/02 (0)12/03 (-6) 13/03 (-6)

23/24 8d

29/11 (-6) 30/11 (-6) 02/12 (-5) 03/12 (-5) 04/12 (-3) 16/01 (-3) 18/01 (-8)08/02 (-5)

22/23 7d

18/12 (-1)06/03 (-6) 08/03 (-8) 09/03 (-6) 10/03 (-8) 11/03 (-5) 14/03 (-6)

21/22 12d

Gandalf The White
18 December 2021 12:09:28

Check out perturbation 10… snow for the a swathe across the country from north of the M4 up to the Midlands throughout Xmas Day, moving slowly south during the day and fading away by Boxing Day morning.

Edit: then another 24 hours of snow on 29/30th…..


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



tallyho_83
18 December 2021 12:14:19

One other point I want to quickly make.

The 6Z being so extreme is not immediately obvious from 850hpa line graphs. The 850hpa temp is often around or slightly above -10 which is cold but not insane (say compared to 2018 where we saw <-15C). Also goes to show the 850hpa temp is not the be all and end all when it comes to cold spell severity.

 

 

Originally Posted by: Quantum 

Good point.

Both Op and Control are colder runs it's fair enough to say looking at the ENS when the ENS members are not all that cold by seeing the mean, but when the 12z comes out we could get one or both control and Op run flipping back to mild whilst it's ENS members go cold.  


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

---------------------------------------

Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

western100
18 December 2021 12:20:04

Check out perturbation 10… snow for the a swathe across the country from north of the M4 up to the Midlands throughout Xmas Day, moving slowly south during the day and fading away by Boxing Day morning.

Edit: then another 24 hours of snow on 29/30th…..

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 

😂 P10 is definitely a snowy one 


Worcestershire / Warwickshire Border

100m ASL

X…..@Weather4u2

UncleAlbert
18 December 2021 12:58:37
Will the general synoptic pattern for Christmas Day materialise?

Probably.

Will the -2C 850 be around Southern England.

Probably not but may well be in doubt well into next week.

But may be nofrom this snow on the 25th is not off of the table for anybody.

Just a simple summary of the way I see things. Hope the excitement continues!

Bertwhistle
18 December 2021 13:07:39

 

And don't forget - that delivered a sub zero January CET.

Originally Posted by: Hungry Tiger 

Think that was 79 Gavin- but 78 had a good February. Schools closed due to oil shortage & cold.

The models. Snow depth at end of op 50cm + over S Wiltshire & NE Dorset. Would be legendary with big drifts in the combes.


Bertie, Itchen Valley.

Retire while you can still press the 'retire now' button.

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