http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/realtime/single.php?2011074/crefl2_143.A2011074233500-2011074234000.250m.jpg

The above is the bering sea are /straits and inside the basin. There appears to have been a lot of fragmentation going on here and the 'slushy' look to areas of the ice suggests that some of the ice has been 'dunked'. Do we know if the Tsunami travelled up the coast here (and into the straits)? as this would give reason for both the scale/size of ice fragments and the darker/slushy looking ice.

http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/realtime/single.php?2011074/crefl2_143.A2011074233500-2011074234000.250m.jpg

The above is the bering sea are /straits and inside the basin. There appears to have been a lot of fragmentation going on here and the 'slushy' look to areas of the ice suggests that some of the ice has been 'dunked'. Do we know if the Tsunami travelled up the coast here (and into the straits)? as this would give reason for both the scale/size of ice fragments and the darker/slushy looking ice.

Yes it did but not significantly:

http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/realtime/single.php?2011074/crefl2_143.A2011074233500-2011074234000.250m.jpg

The above is the bering sea are /straits and inside the basin. There appears to have been a lot of fragmentation going on here and the 'slushy' look to areas of the ice suggests that some of the ice has been 'dunked'. Do we know if the Tsunami travelled up the coast here (and into the straits)? as this would give reason for both the scale/size of ice fragments and the darker/slushy looking ice.

Your theory is interesting though?.

if you look at the Alaskan side you can see the coastal area has a long band of 'slushy' looking ice? This would be the area catching any of the 'wave' square on and any swash running back over the ice would melt out the top snow cover as it went?

http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/realtime/single.php?2011076/crefl2_143.A2011076001500-2011076002000.250m.jpg

if you look at the Alaskan side you can see the coastal area has a long band of 'slushy' looking ice? This would be the area catching any of the 'wave' square on and any swash running back over the ice would melt out the top snow cover as it went?

http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/realtime/single.php?2011076/crefl2_143.A2011076001500-2011076002000.250m.jpg

Although I think Gandalf,s chart could discount any major link.

Do you have a recent history on that area?.

If you look at GTW's link you'll see that , by the time is swashes over that coast, it did have height above tide levels and it will have taken the form of 4 or 5 big waves. The waves will have broken beyond the ice cover (run up the beach) but washed back on top of the ice (striping the snow cover and leaving just ice).

Today is the start of the spring full moon and so a similar height change will work over the whole basin so we should look at the ice integrity on Monday to see if (any) changes have occurred to the levels of fragmentation?

If you look at GTW's link you'll see that , by the time is swashes over that coast, it did have height above tide levels and it will have taken the form of 4 or 5 big waves. The waves will have broken beyond the ice cover (run up the beach) but washed back on top of the ice (striping the snow cover and leaving just ice).

Today is the start of the spring full moon and so a similar height change will work over the whole basin so we should look at the ice integrity on Monday to see if (any) changes have occurred to the levels of fragmentation?

I couldn't decide if a residual tsunami of perhaps 10-20cm was anything unusual but you may be correct.

Anyway, tentatively it looks as if we may have peaked in terms of ice extent.  We achieved 13,887k on 8th March, since when the figure has fallen back to its latest 13,818k.   Based on recent years the value could still increase for another week or so but is likely to remain 2nd lowest in the recent record.

Hi Guys!

I don't think (?) it would take more than GTW's 10-20cm swell to wash off the snow cover on a back swash? With the 'snow' cover gone we'll find the albedo lowered and melt hastened?

http://www.woksat.info/etctc20/tc20-1131-f-grn-n.html

So , any new 'leads' from the spring 'supermoon'?

Hi Guys!

I don't think (?) it would take more than GTW's 10-20cm swell to wash off the snow cover on a back swash? With the 'snow' cover gone we'll find the albedo lowered and melt hastened?

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

Still high enough to cause us ice max. Four! So here we  go for the melt season.

Lower than 07' by ice min I'd guess.

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

Still high enough to cause us ice max. Four! So here we  go for the melt season.

Lower than 07' by ice min I'd guess.

That's puzzling as those values are different to the ones on the IJIS site.

According to that site the maximum was a day earlier and was the 2nd lowest, just ahead of 2006.

Interesting swirl around central arctic (viewed on Cryosphere Today 03/23/2011), looks like ice may already be weaker in this area?

Hi FredBear.(and welcome)

I was wondering about that swirl myself lately.
It doesn't show up on the comparison screen from Cryosphere.

Worth following for a while.

Things can change up there from day to day.

Woksat or Rapidfire Sat will bring you closer on current conditions.

You will need to know your geography or orienteering for these interesting sites.

The freshwater content of the upper Arctic Ocean has increased by about 20 percent since the 1990s, according to a new large-scale assessment. This corresponds to a rise of approximately 8,400 cubic kilometres and has the same magnitude as the volume of freshwater annually exported on average from this marine region in liquid or frozen form.

from -

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110325111901.htm

We all know fresh water freezes more easily than salt water and we also know that salt water ice melts earlier or at lower temperatures than freshwater ice, so, is this extra freshwater another feedback mechanism conducive to ice sustainability?

The freshwater content of the upper Arctic Ocean has increased by about 20 percent since the 1990s, according to a new large-scale assessment. This corresponds to a rise of approximately 8,400 cubic kilometres and has the same magnitude as the volume of freshwater annually exported on average from this marine region in liquid or frozen form.

from -

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110325111901.htm

We all know fresh water freezes more easily than salt water and we also know that salt water ice melts earlier or at lower temperatures than freshwater ice, so, is this extra freshwater another feedback mechanism conducive to ice sustainability?

That's an interesting article.  I think the conclusions are rather different from the one you are offering?

Firstly, the increasing levels of freshwater have been building up at the same time that ice has been reducing. I would have thought that you might conclude logically that the rate of ice loss would have been even worse without this fresh water. To that extent it is indeed a feedback mechanism but it doesn't appear to be stopping the melting, merely - perhaps - slowing it a litte?

Of more concern perhaps is the effect of freshwater outflows on the sinks that are a critical and delicate part of the great ocean conveyor system.  It was suggested some years ago that increased river flow into the Arctic Basin would lower the salinity and might impact in this way.  Couple that with the rapid ice loss from the Greenland ice sheet.

The freshwater content of the upper Arctic Ocean has increased by about 20 percent since the 1990s, according to a new large-scale assessment. This corresponds to a rise of approximately 8,400 cubic kilometres and has the same magnitude as the volume of freshwater annually exported on average from this marine region in liquid or frozen form.

from -

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110325111901.htm

We all know fresh water freezes more easily than salt water and we also know that salt water ice melts earlier or at lower temperatures than freshwater ice, so, is this extra freshwater another feedback mechanism conducive to ice sustainability?

That's an interesting article.  I think the conclusions are rather different from the one you are offering?

Firstly, the increasing levels of freshwater have been building up at the same time that ice has been reducing. I would have thought that you might conclude logically that the rate of ice loss would have been even worse without this fresh water. To that extent it is indeed a feedback mechanism but it doesn't appear to be stopping the melting, merely - perhaps - slowing it a litte?

Of more concern perhaps is the effect of freshwater outflows on the sinks that are a critical and delicate part of the great ocean conveyor system.  It was suggested some years ago that increased river flow into the Arctic Basin would lower the salinity and might impact in this way.  Couple that with the rapid ice loss from the Greenland ice sheet.

The freshwater content of the upper Arctic Ocean has increased by about 20 percent since the 1990s, according to a new large-scale assessment. This corresponds to a rise of approximately 8,400 cubic kilometres and has the same magnitude as the volume of freshwater annually exported on average from this marine region in liquid or frozen form.

from -

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110325111901.htm

We all know fresh water freezes more easily than salt water and we also know that salt water ice melts earlier or at lower temperatures than freshwater ice, so, is this extra freshwater another feedback mechanism conducive to ice sustainability?

That's an interesting article.  I think the conclusions are rather different from the one you are offering?

Firstly, the increasing levels of freshwater have been building up at the same time that ice has been reducing. I would have thought that you might conclude logically that the rate of ice loss would have been even worse without this fresh water. To that extent it is indeed a feedback mechanism but it doesn't appear to be stopping the melting, merely - perhaps - slowing it a litte?

Of more concern perhaps is the effect of freshwater outflows on the sinks that are a critical and delicate part of the great ocean conveyor system.  It was suggested some years ago that increased river flow into the Arctic Basin would lower the salinity and might impact in this way.  Couple that with the rapid ice loss from the Greenland ice sheet.

Yes, I agree with your comments. I don't know what the position atm, but a while back, the "sinks" were fewer in number than previously - more than half in fact. Worrying. The feedbacks from that scenario would possibly be calamitous.

Yes, removing a key component of the mechanism for moving heat and moisture away from the Equatorial regions would have potentially profound effects.  As I understand it, around the North Atlantic (NE US, NW Europe) we would see a offset of the warming from AGW whilst the heat would be held nearer the Equator.  This has been modelled and I recall that rainfall reduces markedly in some parts of the world.

Who knows?  But it is one example of why I keep saying that we are unwise to be tampering with such a complex system (the global climate) when nobody knows for certain how that system will respond to changing inputs.  Tipping points and non-linear responses are, I understand, typical of complex systems.  "I told you so" will not be much help if we blunder into one.

I'm sure there was recent research showing that the sinks (of NE Greenland) had returned back to their 'normal' patterns?

As for the 'freshening of the Basin' there's a lot of melt water (from 'old ice') and lots more outflow from the Northern European/Russian land masses. As to the 'shakedown' from this surface freshening? as long as it doesn't involve 'dark' algal blooms we are probably just playing 'swings and roundabouts' with earlier melting/freezing timings?

I'm sure there was recent research showing that the sinks (of NE Greenland) had returned back to their 'normal' patterns?

As for the 'freshening of the Basin' there's a lot of melt water (from 'old ice') and lots more outflow from the Northern European/Russian land masses. As to the 'shakedown' from this surface freshening? as long as it doesn't involve 'dark' algal blooms we are probably just playing 'swings and roundabouts' with earlier melting/freezing timings?

I did give this some thought earlier.  Unless I am missing something surely the melt water from old sea ice will be saline?