The Weather Outlook

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Jiries
10 September 2017 22:17:43

 

Yup the progged dryer interlude is still there in both the GFS and ECM mid-term. GFS seems rather keener on this being something of a pattern change for the UK at least and keeps HP influencing us for quite a while. ECM less keen and the t240 chart suggests another autumnal spell to me.

850s aren't all that high for the time of year (initially at least, the GFS toys with some warmer but not too warm 850s) so one thing to watch for in the settled interlude/spell is some cold night time temps to go with what will hopefully be some pleasant autumn sunshine.

Given the expected hurricane wandering up the east coast of the US I suspect FI will be even more useless than usual until they resolve where that ends up and where the energy goes etc.

As an OT aside this has certainly been an unusually autumnal start to September here - generally we rarely see properly wet and windy stuff until the last third of the month or even early October. 

Originally Posted by: Hippydave 

Autumn had arrived far too early this year as early as 18th July and summer had not been recovered and we already started putting the shorts and summer duvet away.  No signs of any real warm from the latest ensembles.   

Tom Oxon
10 September 2017 22:53:17
Stonking ECM 240 tonight!

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/ECMOPEU12_240_1.png 


S Warwickshire countryside, c.375ft asl.
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
11 September 2017 06:26:18

Stonking ECM 240 tonight!

Originally Posted by: Tom Oxon 

">http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/ECMOPEU12_240_1.png

and on the western edge of the chart, none other than our friend hurricane Jose! which may have helped to pump up the warm air. But don't get too excited yet.


War is God's way of teaching Americans geography - Ambrose Bierce

Chichester 12m asl

Hungry Tiger
11 September 2017 13:49:10

Stonking ECM 240 tonight!

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/ECMOPEU12_240_1.png

Originally Posted by: Tom Oxon 

Now thats more like it.

 


Gavin S. FRmetS.

TWO Moderator.

Contact the TWO team - [email protected]

South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.



Maunder Minimum
11 September 2017 19:33:46
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSOPEU12_69_1.png 

http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/weather/maps/city?LANG=en&CEL=C&SI=mph&CONT=ukuk&LAND=UK&REGION=0003&WMO=03065&LEVEL=52&R=310&NOREGION=0

Would be fantastic synoptics for January.


New world order coming.
Hippydave
11 September 2017 19:53:38

FI and all that but some interesting differences between the GFS and ECM tonight at T240. GFS has HP over the NE US and much more in the way of HP for us. The hurricane shown to wander up the US coast runs in to the HP and fizzles. Further down the line this leads to a decent HP plonked over the UK with some warm temps.

Whereas the ECM has the HP further West and allows the hurricane to spin up the coast, merge with another LP nearly intact and presumably wander towards us. Whether this would serve to inflate HP over or near us or knock it out the way giving us a spell of wet and windy weather is debatable. Be interesting to see how this pans out.

 


Home: Tunbridge Wells

Work: Tonbridge

DEW
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12 September 2017 08:30:49

FI and all that but some interesting differences between the GFS and ECM tonight at T240. GFS has HP over the NE US and much more in the way of HP for us. The hurricane shown to wander up the US coast runs in to the HP and fizzles. Further down the line this leads to a decent HP plonked over the UK with some warm temps.

Whereas the ECM has the HP further West and allows the hurricane to spin up the coast, merge with another LP nearly intact and presumably wander towards us. Whether this would serve to inflate HP over or near us or knock it out the way giving us a spell of wet and windy weather is debatable. Be interesting to see how this pans out.

 

Originally Posted by: Hippydave 

GFS less optimistic this morning with that hurricane (extra-tropical Jose) settin up a mid-Atlantic block and giving us a week of easterlies from Sat 23rd - but that's all a long way off and may never happen


War is God's way of teaching Americans geography - Ambrose Bierce

Chichester 12m asl

Tractor Boy
13 September 2017 09:27:30

Whether or not they are onto something at such great range but FI for all main models are showing more HP influence out at day 10, so maybe a settling down towards month end.

 

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSOPEU00_240_1.png

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/ECMOPEU00_240_1.png

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GEMOPEU00_240_1.png


Dave

Farndale, North York Moors

Rob K
13 September 2017 09:35:38

Whether or not they are onto something at such great range but FI for all main models are showing more HP influence out at day 10, so maybe a settling down towards month end.

 

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSOPEU00_240_1.png

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/ECMOPEU00_240_1.png

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GEMOPEU00_240_1.png

Originally Posted by: Tractor Boy 

Yes it is looking quite encouraging, especially as I am heading to France in 10 days' time. The ensembles have been all over the place but now seem to have decisively flipped to a warm and dry picture just as I arrive!

 

http://old.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_Toulouse_ens.png

 


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl

"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

DEW
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  • Advanced Member
15 September 2017 06:08:17

Brief pulses of warm air from the south shown here on GFS 0z

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/datmdlout.aspx,

nicely timed to coincide with weekends 24 Sep and Oct 1 but two successive hurricanes forecast to make their way up the US East Coast are going to inject too much energy into the Atlantic, as they combine with the regular LPs, for any settled spell to last.


War is God's way of teaching Americans geography - Ambrose Bierce

Chichester 12m asl

Gooner
15 September 2017 18:47:10

Some chilly nights coming up

 

Ground frost could be on the cards


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus

Banbury

North Oxfordshire

378 feet A S L



Phil G
15 September 2017 19:21:59
Some good synoptics showing up towards the end of the reliable. Sure there was a similar set up for a period last Autumn and maybe some previous years. Trouble is Winter ended not being too seasonal on these occasions, but I don't believe in pattern matching and think these were still coincidences.

The weather does what it likes.

http://old.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2401.gif 

four
  • four
  • Advanced Member
15 September 2017 19:32:25
High Pressure there tends to give us pleasantly warm days and coolish nights, but Russia and Scandinavia will get an early cool down - which it is difficult to recover from.
LA2B MeridFlowEuro09
16 September 2017 17:35:57

Long time I have not posted here.

From today I will just state the obvious situation shown on the GFS and UKMO and ECMWF and any features that are developed at within the 72-144 timeframe.

 

Mild and Warm by Wednesday next week at day 5 from today. NW and W Unsettled with rain and showers and some cloudy spells SW winds as well, while the SE parts see some brighter and drier weather and closer to high pressure and have lighter winds.

There is no point for me to participate in time wasting checking who is saying what as I have got no time for that.

 

Nothing in particular of any interest at the moment, but the UK will be staying cloudy as well as bright and sunny from today to Tuesday, and we will be continuing to see and experience normal September temperatures for most, and chilly to cold nights for some of us.

That is all I can see for now.

.


Climate is warming up, Scotland and N Ireland and North England still often gets some Winter frost, ice and snow, November to March, but the SE and South UK including S Central England and Wales, together with the West and North through the year, they sometimes get more rain than London and S SE England, where some longer dry fine spells without much heavy rain is seen every year.

The North Atlantic Sea often gets some much Colder Wintry conditions from November to March Months, and Mild SW and South winds tend to be more frequent over the East and SE of North Atlantic Sea, as the Azores High tends to stay in charge. 

With this warmth and heat, the Central and South UK has become mostly free of snow and frost.

Hungry Tiger
16 September 2017 19:37:21

High Pressure there tends to give us pleasantly warm days and coolish nights, but Russia and Scandinavia will get an early cool down - which it is difficult to recover from.

Originally Posted by: four 

There's quite a few signs of that one.

 


Gavin S. FRmetS.

TWO Moderator.

Contact the TWO team - [email protected]

South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.



Stormchaser
16 September 2017 20:19:15

 

It's been ages since anything really caught my attention in the model output (cool and showery doesn't really cut it for me in terms of the model output; the experience of it taking place in reality is what matters in such conditions), but I am certainly becoming interested in what is a fairly consistent signal for a multitude of tropical cyclones to help line up a powerful surge of warmth and moisture that heads well NE while becoming increasingly confined to the upper atmosphere due to surface modification. 

This reduces the direct feed of warmth to the UK which may well be totally offset by cool nights, but aloft it results in a large expanse of anomalously warm air over and to the N. of Scandinavia which will then tend to slowly sink down to the surface, promoting higher than usual surface pressure for a lengthy period i.e. a Scandinavian blocking high.

A similar process tried to occur about a month ago, but surface heating was still enough to offset the sinking motion to some extent, resulting in a more intermittent manifestation of high pressure NE of the UK. This time around, the surface heating will be minimal and so the blocking high looks a good bet (though still not guaranteed of course).

What's more, we've already got a push of warm air aloft on Monday helping to develop strong blocking to the east of Scandinavia over the following 5 days, meaning there should be a strong blocking high already in place that can simply extend or move west to Scandinavia.

 

Why is this of such interest to me when it's way to early for wintry impacts, you may be wondering?

Well - such extensive and strong blocking will potentially allow us to dry out a bit for starters, but more significantly it could both interfere with the development of the tropospheric polar vortex late Sep through early Oct, and - as Four has alluded to already (good spot) - cool the Eurasian surface at the high latitudes sufficiently to encourage an early onset of snow cover advance. Of course, to get the precipitation for a good October SAI there needs to be lows undercutting the blocking highs... but now I'm getting way, way ahead of myself .

 

After all, the models were once suggesting this sort of thing for mid-September but positioned a bit further east, which was enough for me to try out a fairly warm CET estimate.


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LA2B MeridFlowEuro09
17 September 2017 06:22:11

The GFS, UKMO 00z run today and yesterday's 12z ECMWF model output has SE and S Europe Low Pressure, Nor'easter Low over Sweden aka Scandy Baltic Sea Low, Norwegian High NNE Europe and West Central Europe trending from Low to High Pressure.

NW and N Atlantic PV Low, Greenland Central and NW NE Blocking High.

West and SW and NW United Kingdom affected by Low Pressure's eastern side!!.

Still a chance for the Sceuro High N Europe High to be boosted up by Cyclogenesis over NW and N Atlantic going across the North Pole and Central Arctic Sea.  It could turn warm at times in the South and East UK as well as across West and Central Europe, and mostly dry and benign mundane boring weather type.

😆😄🌫🌞.


Climate is warming up, Scotland and N Ireland and North England still often gets some Winter frost, ice and snow, November to March, but the SE and South UK including S Central England and Wales, together with the West and North through the year, they sometimes get more rain than London and S SE England, where some longer dry fine spells without much heavy rain is seen every year.

The North Atlantic Sea often gets some much Colder Wintry conditions from November to March Months, and Mild SW and South winds tend to be more frequent over the East and SE of North Atlantic Sea, as the Azores High tends to stay in charge. 

With this warmth and heat, the Central and South UK has become mostly free of snow and frost.

DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
17 September 2017 08:03:33

GFS 0z sequence shows identifiable remnants of Hurricane Maria arriving as a depression directly over the Uk on Oct 1st - strong winds all gone, but would produce a deal of rain.

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/datmdlout.aspx

 


War is God's way of teaching Americans geography - Ambrose Bierce

Chichester 12m asl

Hungry Tiger
17 September 2017 13:46:28

Just remember what an impressive Scandi high did for November 1993 - and remember the rest of the winter was mild.

The old saying goes like this. "If ice in November may bear a duck - then the winter will consist of slush and muck".

 


Gavin S. FRmetS.

TWO Moderator.

Contact the TWO team - [email protected]

South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.



doctormog
17 September 2017 14:04:40

Just remember what an impressive Scandi high did for November 1993 - and remember the rest of the winter was mild.

The old saying goes like this. "If ice in November may bear a duck - then the winter will consist of slush and muck".

 

Originally Posted by: Hungry Tiger 

Actually December was rather cold here. I remember it clearly as it was during my first few months in Aberdeen. Following the cold October and November I wondered what I had let myself in for!

Scandi High or not this autumn has been and continues to look like autumn rather than the continuation of summer that we have become used to in recent Septembers.


Hungry Tiger
17 September 2017 14:31:33

 

Actually December was rather cold here. I remember it clearly as it was during my first few months in Aberdeen. Following the cold October and November I wondered what I had let myself in for!

Scandi High or not this autumn has been and continues to look like autumn rather than the continuation of summer that we have become used to in recent Septembers.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 

I certainly agree with you there Doc. In fact several of my mates whom I've just had lunch with today have agreed that this September feels more like October. I wonder whether things maybe somewhat different this year.

Sorry to wander OT here.


Gavin S. FRmetS.

TWO Moderator.

Contact the TWO team - [email protected]

South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.



David M Porter
17 September 2017 14:58:08

 

I certainly agree with you there Doc. In fact several of my mates whom I've just had lunch with today have agreed that this September feels more like October. I wonder whether things maybe somewhat different this year.

Sorry to wander OT here.

Originally Posted by: Hungry Tiger 

I don't know what the highest temperature we have had anywhere in the UK so far this September is, but as far as I know we've been nowhere near even getting close to the 34C that was recorded on 13th September last year. Quite different to many Septembers we have seen going back as far as 1991.


Lenzie, Glasgow

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LA2B MeridFlowEuro09
17 September 2017 16:39:07

Up and away here is the latest from the GFS 12z cup of tea, as well as the UKMO 12z and ECMWF 00z run of today.

At t120 to t168 it looks like some warmer and drier conditions with Sceuro High aka Bartlett looks set to influence us.

That means from Saturday or the Sunday onwards after this week's weekdays are over, Sunday and Monday warm Southerly flow from Spain and NW Africa could draw in temperatures going up to 25 to 27 deg. C again.

Polar Vortex PV over NW and N Atlantic South SW and SE and E Greenland and through to Iceland Low Pressure being shown wrappng up into a major windy and rainy set of runs as seen at 168 and 192 hrs time.

This prediction is worth getting us in NW Europe UK interested as far as warmth and dryness and sunshine is concerned.

I'd see what these models make of this as this upcoming week goes on, maybe this forecast can change but this trend is showing a very good set up indeed- A NW Africa W Europe and UK Spanish Plume event is looking plausible.

.  

It might turn windy with Low Pressure in early October but there is a chance of a thundery breakdown if we get a sprout of very warm and humid weather- I'd enjoy some more of this!.

.


Climate is warming up, Scotland and N Ireland and North England still often gets some Winter frost, ice and snow, November to March, but the SE and South UK including S Central England and Wales, together with the West and North through the year, they sometimes get more rain than London and S SE England, where some longer dry fine spells without much heavy rain is seen every year.

The North Atlantic Sea often gets some much Colder Wintry conditions from November to March Months, and Mild SW and South winds tend to be more frequent over the East and SE of North Atlantic Sea, as the Azores High tends to stay in charge. 

With this warmth and heat, the Central and South UK has become mostly free of snow and frost.

Zubzero
17 September 2017 18:25:55

 

I certainly agree with you there Doc. In fact several of my mates whom I've just had lunch with today have agreed that this September feels more like October. I wonder whether things maybe somewhat different this year.

Sorry to wander OT here.

Originally Posted by: Hungry Tiger 

Indeed. People are so used to it being warmer then the long term average, it stands out when the weather is average or a bit below.

I doubt the cooler spell of weather we have had recently has any bearing on the forthcoming late Autumn and Winter. 

And a zonal Westerly pattern will take hold when it matters 

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