The Weather Outlook

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Retron
18 November 2025 07:42:24
Two things caught my eye with GEFS this morning. One, four members have -10 or below 850s for London in the next few days, but even the one that gets down to -12.9 only delivers T2Ms of -1 - and that's at night too!

https://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gefs_table.php?ext=1&x=&lat=51.5085&lon=-0.12574&ville=Londres 


Leysdown, north Kent
nsrobins
18 November 2025 08:20:47

Two things caught my eye with GEFS this morning. One, four members have -10 or below 850s for London in the next few days, but even the one that gets down to -12.9 only delivers T2Ms of -1 - and that's at night too!

https://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gefs_table.php?ext=1&x=&lat=51.5085&lon=-0.12574&ville=Londres 

Originally Posted by: Retron 

Hi Darren - good to see you posting.

Very early season and a NNE flow that favours a long fetch across a seasonally warm North Sea. An ENE in late January would deliver something quite different I’d imagine, or at least in theory!

Several drivers (currently low to neutral u-wind and a weak ENSO, among others), might work in our favour this December but as with most old puzzles you’ll always be searching for a few missing pieces.


Neil

Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)

Stormchaser, Member TORRO

DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
18 November 2025 09:03:33
FAX; small disturbance now moving south in the northerly flow (metO says snow for hills in the north; media trying to big up the odd flake of snow elsewhere) but by Thu a straight N-ly with a few embedded showery troughs. All swept away as winds turn W-ly by Sat 22nd; yesterday's forecast of a passing trough now firmed up into a small LP 995mb W Ireland.

GFS; agrees with Fax; then a spell of W-ly influence but unlike yesterdays' output conjures up a general decrease in pressure from Sat 22nd  eventually resulting in a depression 980mb Wight Tue 25th moving SE-wards, followed by a toppling ridge of HP 1030mb Thu 27th before mild SW-lies set in lasting into Dec.

ECM; makes less of the above LP Tue 25th but instead brings LP down from Iceland to E Scotland 985mb Thu 27th with strong NW-lies, and sign of a ridge of HP on that date.

AIFS; London maxima about 3C at the end of this week, rising to 8-10C for most of the rest of the forecast but a milder couple of days Sat/Sun 28th/29th, rain at regular intervals from Sun 23rd. Edinburgh maxima 3-6C until Thu 27th, then a couple of milder bursts ca 12C Fri 28th and Mon 1st. Significant rain now (wet snow?) and after Wed 26th, but some at other times.

GEFS; in the S cold (5C below norm) to Sat 22nd, then mean temp near norm (most ens members milder but mean held back by some cold outliers) Rain in many runs from Sat 22nd onwards, perhaps a little snow (snow row 20/33 Brighton) tomorrow but the quantity isn't there except possibly E Anglia. In the N temp profile similar, rain not setting in until Mon 24th and then more sporadic; high chance of snow tomorrow plus some quantity (snow row Scotland mostly 33/33, upper 20s N England)


War is God's way of teaching Americans geography - Ambrose Bierce

Chichester 12m asl

Saint Snow
18 November 2025 10:53:01
Some of the models now reaching into early December - and zero festive cheer to be had in FI.


Martin

Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)

A TWO addict since 14/12/01

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Aneurin Bevan

CField
18 November 2025 15:01:11
Yes model watching for December is like looking at the same wallpaper pattern year in year out..

Hope Brian's winter forcast reveals a few surprises although I'm not expecting Siberian Express to be mentioned...


Favourite snowstorm

Famous channel low

Dec 31st 1978

Hastings East Sussex

Foot of level snow severe drifting

Next day max temp -4 degrees Celsius

cultman1
18 November 2025 18:23:26
The Met Office App and medium range shows a continuing trend of slightly cooler than average temperatures for the London area a sort of reversal of last weeks forecast? A trend perhaps for a cooler December? 
Brian Gaze
18 November 2025 19:02:55
ECM AIFS deterministic precipitation type charts are now available on TWO. Just select "Precip type" on the viewer here:

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/ecmhrai.aspx 

FWIW, I believe the physics based precipitation type charts are still considered better, at least at short ranges. 

UserPostedImage


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

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Brian Gaze
18 November 2025 19:04:49
The UKM model suite will be upgraded early next year. Their summary says:

This upgrade marks the most substantial enhancement to our global and regional model systems in over three years. It introduces improvements across atmospheric, oceanic, and coupled systems, including:

Enhanced precipitation realism

More accurate forecasts of cloud cover and cloud base height in the UK

Advancements in our UK winter temperature forecasting 

Stronger tropical cyclone intensity forecasts


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

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White Meadows
18 November 2025 22:27:32

The UKM model suite will be upgraded early next year. Their summary says:

This upgrade marks the most substantial enhancement to our global and regional model systems in over three years. It introduces improvements across atmospheric, oceanic, and coupled systems, including:

Enhanced precipitation realism

More accurate forecasts of cloud cover and cloud base height in the UK

Advancements in our UK winter temperature forecasting 

Stronger tropical cyclone intensity forecasts

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

When you consider it hasn’t changed much on a fundamental level in the past 15 years, I wouldn’t hold out for any breathtaking upgrades. 

Retron
19 November 2025 07:28:13
I'm going to keep this going all the time there's something of interest to report!

The ECM 10hPa zonal charts continue to show an SSW lasting several days, followed by a gradual rise closer to (but still below) normal by the end of the year. My understanding, assuming it comes off, is this is the first SSW in November in the satellite era (since 1979). There was one in 1968 which lasted a couple of days, and a one-day wonder in 1958.

https://csl.noaa.gov/groups/csl8/sswcompendium/majorevents.html 

https://charts.ecmwf.int/products/extended-zonal-mean-zonal-wind?area=nh&base_time=202511180000 

The ECM weekly outlooks now show a cold week for most next week (it's been trending colder each day), and the return to milder conditions doesn't quite reach the far SE - which remains near normal right 'til the end of the output. It remains a promising outlook for coldies as it's a world away from the more typical pinks and deep pinks we see at this time of year.

https://charts.ecmwf.int/products/extended-anomaly-2t?base_time=202511180000&projection=opencharts_europe&valid_time=202512010000 

Last night's op run ECM, FWIW, failed to achieve an SSW - going down to +0.1 m/s. So near but so far!

https://users.met.fu-berlin.de/~Aktuell/strat-www/wdiag/ec.php?alert=1&level=10&forecast=f216&lng=eng&hem=nh 


Leysdown, north Kent
BJBlake
19 November 2025 07:54:36

I'm going to keep this going all the time there's something of interest to report!

The ECM 10hPa zonal charts continue to show an SSW lasting several days, followed by a gradual rise closer to (but still below) normal by the end of the year. My understanding, assuming it comes off, is this is the first SSW in November in the satellite era (since 1979). There was one in 1968 which lasted a couple of days, and a one-day wonder in 1958.

https://csl.noaa.gov/groups/csl8/sswcompendium/majorevents.html 

https://charts.ecmwf.int/products/extended-zonal-mean-zonal-wind?area=nh&base_time=202511180000 

The ECM weekly outlooks now show a cold week for most next week (it's been trending colder each day), and the return to milder conditions doesn't quite reach the far SE - which remains near normal right 'til the end of the output. It remains a promising outlook for coldies as it's a world away from the more typical pinks and deep pinks we see at this time of year.

https://charts.ecmwf.int/products/extended-anomaly-2t?base_time=202511180000&projection=opencharts_europe&valid_time=202512010000 

Last night's op run ECM, FWIW, failed to achieve an SSW - going down to +0.1 m/s. So near but so far!

https://users.met.fu-berlin.de/~Aktuell/strat-www/wdiag/ec.php?alert=1&level=10&forecast=f216&lng=eng&hem=nh 

Originally Posted by: Retron 

Do please continue - this is fascinating  and the chart of data is worthy of study in its own right. With some additional digging, I note that all the major cold winters and those with major snowy events coincided with La Niña, La nada or Just occasionally very weak El Niño. The correlation to QBO is less clear but easterly is most common in winters of notably cold, although some with W had changed recently from E. This year we have LaNina and an E QBO, so if the SSW comes off - as you say - this winter is one to watch. And I agree - each model run downgrades the return to mild weather. The sub -5 air comes back in to the east twice in the last run.


Brecklands, South Norfolk 28m ASL
Crepuscular Ray
19 November 2025 08:09:41
Yeah the GFS 00Z not without interest. Shows an 'old school' battle for a while at the beginning of Dec 🤔
Jerry

Edinburgh, in the frost hollow below Blackford Hill

DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
19 November 2025 09:02:55
FAX starts with a strong N-ly and troughs affecting mainly E and W coasts (Note; the N York Moors look to be getting the most likely and heaviest snowfall, see MetO warnings, elsewhere I'd guess sleet or small amounts of wet snow). The N-lies collapse on Fri 21st and troughs come in from the west with an area of LP for Britain, deepening to 991mb N England Sun 21st.

GFS; carries on where FAX leaves off and takes the LP from Sun SE-wards to Dover 1000mb Tue 25th, with more NE-lies esp for England but not connected to any cold air mass. Even as this drifts out of the way, pressure remains low over Britain with the next development being 985mb off NW Ireland Sat 29th and a trough in advance to S England. This fills but then there is a re-load 965mb Tue 2nd before LP takes itself off to Iceland with SW-ly gales for all of Britain by Fri 5th.

ECM; differs from GFS after 25th , with low pressure established to the north of Scotland 960mb and SW-lies for Britain Sat 29th, no rough established.

AIFS; London, maxima about 3C now, rising by fits and starts to 13C by Tue 2nd, significant rain Sun 23rd and Sat 29th. Edinburgh, similar temp profile but with something of a dip Sun 30th interrupting the general rise in maxima, rain mostly Mon 24th, Fri 28th and Wed 3rd 

GEFS; cold to Sun 23rd, then mean temp not far from norm well into December (cooler at first, milder later). Rain or snow now, dryish for a day or two, rain on and off from Sun 23rd


War is God's way of teaching Americans geography - Ambrose Bierce

Chichester 12m asl

The Beast from the East
19 November 2025 09:51:08
Always a positive sign if Darren is posting. But I wont hold my breath.  We always seem to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in this country. 
Purley, Surrey, 70m ASL

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Kelly-Ann Conway - former special adviser to the President

Phil24
19 November 2025 10:21:43
Morning everyone, that time of year again. 😁

Following on from Retron. 

Judah Cohens weekly blog details how this could well evolve. It gives some historical incidences of how rare an SSW is at this time of year with some evidence showing that when it has, what follows should please the majority of those who frequent this great platform. 

Not in the bag yet, but certainly worth keeping an eye on. 

https://published.aer.com/aoblog/aoblog.html 

CField
19 November 2025 11:12:14
Nice looking gfs 6z run...Full of Eastern promise........
Favourite snowstorm

Famous channel low

Dec 31st 1978

Hastings East Sussex

Foot of level snow severe drifting

Next day max temp -4 degrees Celsius

Russwirral
19 November 2025 11:31:47
GFS run is at worst a nice dry easterly, at best, the start of something building
Taylor1740
19 November 2025 15:18:54

GFS run is at worst a nice dry easterly, at best, the start of something building

Originally Posted by: Russwirral 

Indeed, some extremely cold air for the beginning of Winter pushing into Eastern and Central Europe.

It was a bit of an outlier in the ensembles so I'm not expecting anything but interesting to see at least.


NW Leeds - 150m amsl
Quantum
19 November 2025 15:31:24
12Z ARPEGE and ICON rolling out. Pattern improving with the weekend seemingly starting to feel more like a 'less cold' blip than anything mild.
25/26 (850hpa temp) 11 days snow/sleet falling

18/11 (-4) 19/11 (-6) 20/11 (-6) 01/01 (-7) 04/01 (-10) 10/01 (-7) 11/01 (-3) 30/01 (-1) 13/02 (-6) 15/02 (-4) 18/02 (-6)

24/25 10d

18/11 (-6) 19/11 (-6) 23/11 (-2) 22/12 (-5) 04/01 (-5) 05/01 (0)14/02 (0) 15/02 (0)12/03 (-6) 13/03 (-6)

23/24 8d

29/11 (-6) 30/11 (-6) 02/12 (-5) 03/12 (-5) 04/12 (-3) 16/01 (-3) 18/01 (-8)08/02 (-5)

22/23 7d

18/12 (-1)06/03 (-6) 08/03 (-8) 09/03 (-6) 10/03 (-8) 11/03 (-5) 14/03 (-6)

21/22 12d

19 November 2025 16:00:10
Disappointing to see the upcoming mildness downgraded.

Instead is nothingness at 9 or 10c


Berkshire
Retron
20 November 2025 04:15:56
This morning's ECM-45 update isn't too encouraging for coldies. The zonal mean chart has jinked upwards overnight, and a mean SSW is no longer shown. I'm sure it's no coincidence either that the medium term (i.e. early to mid December) now shows as generally above average across the UK, the pinks and deeper pinks have returned as per usual. Christmas week still looks around average, which is encouraging, but the whole suite has definitely trended milder in the last 24 hours.

Last night's 12z ECM op isn't available yet on the Berlin site, but I wouldn't be surprised if it no longer shows an SSW either. 


Leysdown, north Kent
Ally Pally Snowman
20 November 2025 05:18:48
Despite the teleconnections and long range optimism recently.  The PV looks to be setting up in its usual spot and the ensembles across the models paint a poor picture for Coldies. 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Retron
20 November 2025 06:04:04
Last night's 12z ECM *did* manage to serve up an SSW. What's interesting is there's quite a bit more warming shown as well.

https://users.met.fu-berlin.de/~Aktuell/strat-www/wdiag/ec.php?alert=1&level=10&forecast=f216&lng=eng&hem=nh 

At least there's still a bit of interest!


Leysdown, north Kent
Heavy Weather 2013
20 November 2025 06:20:08
I have to concur, the last 4-5 runs bar the 06z yesterday have shown the PV become pretty dominant again. I keep waiting for some crumbs- not sure what to make of it all - background signals are promising and have been waiting for some tasty charts, but all seem to show the same thing beyond the next 5-6 days. 

It actually snowed yesterday on the same day as last year and I remember saying then to my mate, it would be funny if that was the only snow we would see. I wasn’t laughing at the end of winter, despite some very slushy snow flakes falling in January.


Mark

Beckton, E London

Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.

Brian Gaze
20 November 2025 07:36:35
I agree. You can almost "sense" a change in the medium range output in the last 24 hours without analysing the numbers in the ensembles. I've noticed the dreaded purples starting to appear to the northwest of the UK. FWIW, the seasonals have also been trending towards a wetter than average winter. Given the background signals it would be ironic if we ended up with a stormy and mobile winter. 
Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

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