The Weather Outlook

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Gandalf The White
19 December 2021 17:38:26

As we need something to smile about, it seems, here's pert 13 for midday on Xmas Day (it snows into Boxing Day morning)


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



Rob K
19 December 2021 17:39:13

Looks decent at 144 but I suspect that mini dartboard low would soon blow any cold air away.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl

"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

Brian Gaze
19 December 2021 17:41:54

 

I recall discussions on this point perhaps a decade or more ago.  It's a clear and predicted consequence of 'Voldemort' (that which must not be named...).

Of course a climatic shift doesn't rule out a southerly jet but must make it more difficult and therefore rarer.

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 

Indeed.


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

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Brian Gaze
19 December 2021 17:42:47

 

Looks decent at 144 but I suspect that mini dartboard low would soon blow any cold air away.

Originally Posted by: Rob K 

It's an odd looking thing and it would be interesting to see how the model developed it in the following days.


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

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Rob K
19 December 2021 17:44:38
GEFS snow risk now less than 5% for my location on Christmas Day. Still just about reaches 25% by the end of Boxing Day, and in fact the mean has the 0C isotherm somewhat further south by 264 hours.
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl

"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

Gandalf The White
19 December 2021 18:01:38

Clutching at possible encouraging signs, the control is very different to the Op.

For example, T+300


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



Narnia
19 December 2021 18:02:16

Let’s be honest, what we are looking at now model wise will probably drastically change again by the morning. The models have been all over the place in the last 48hrs. Dare to dream!!!

Gandalf The White
19 December 2021 18:14:41

Let’s be honest, what we are looking at now model wise will probably drastically change again by the morning. The models have been all over the place in the last 48hrs. Dare to dream!!!

Originally Posted by: Narnia 

Ah, but dream or nightmare, that is the question.....

But yes, this is proving to be an interesting challenge for the numerical models.


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



Gandalf The White
19 December 2021 18:18:57

ECM 12z out to T+96 and very similar to the other output. 


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



Brian Gaze
19 December 2021 18:22:44

ECM 12z t+120 18/12

 

ECM 12z t+96 19/12

 

Big subtle differences.


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

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Chunky Pea
19 December 2021 18:26:10

Of course a climatic shift doesn't rule out a southerly jet but must make it more difficult and therefore rarer.

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 

I mused the other day about the NE Atlantic pattern having remained unmoved since July's heatwave. Something kicked in at that point and we just can't seem to break out of it. The pattern today for example is near dead bang similar to that of the 2nd half of July. Of course, it may deflate for a short while but like have seen many times over the last few months, it reinstates itself with remarkable ease after only a short time. 

 


Patrick,

East Galway, Ireland.

Brian Gaze
19 December 2021 18:28:00

ECM t+144 18/12 compared to t+120 today. 

 


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

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Brian Gaze
19 December 2021 18:29:40

UK Met 12z starting to look isolated.

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/ecmwf.aspx?run=12&charthour=144&chartname=mslp500&chartregion=na&charttag=500hPa%20GPDM

 


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

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Rob K
19 December 2021 18:32:34
Astonishing that in 3 or 4 days we have gone from an HP dominated dry cold and foggy outlook to a potentially cold and snowy outlook to a cool and very wet outlook. And you just know that as soon as the models find a cruddy solution they will stick with it.
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl

"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

Brian Gaze
19 December 2021 18:36:42

Astonishing that in 3 or 4 days we have gone from an HP dominated dry cold and foggy outlook to a potentially cold and snowy outlook to a cool and very wet outlook. And you just know that as soon as the models find a cruddy solution they will stick with it.

Originally Posted by: Rob K 

Oddly enough the WAI (30, 45 and 60 day trackers) has performed extremely well this month, but it could just be beginners luck for them.


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

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Whether Idle
19 December 2021 18:36:51

GFS appears to be coming  out of this with some credibility - always more for a milder south vs UKMEt/EC...still time for a flip but....


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Chunky Pea
19 December 2021 18:41:47

GFS appears to be coming  out of this with some credibility - always more for a milder south vs UKMEt/EC...still time for a flip but....

Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 

It's far from resolved yet, but if the GFS wins this one out, then it'll just confirm to me even more that ECMWF, while still a fantastic model, is a model that is just a little bit overrated. 


Patrick,

East Galway, Ireland.

Gandalf The White
19 December 2021 18:43:51

GFS appears to be coming  out of this with some credibility - always more for a milder south vs UKMEt/EC...still time for a flip but....

Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 

So, not the same GFS that gave us 30 hours of snow across the Midlands from late Xmas Day through Boxing Day in last night's 18z?


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



Gandalf The White
19 December 2021 18:46:01

 

It's far from resolved yet, but if the GFS wins this one out, then it'll just confirm to me even more that ECMWF, while still a fantastic model, is a model that is just a little bit overrated. 

Originally Posted by: Chunky Pea 

Do yo not think that the proven performance stats count for more?


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



Whether Idle
19 December 2021 18:47:28

 

So, not the same GFS that gave us 30 hours of snow across the Midlands from late Xmas Day through Boxing Day in last night's 18z?

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 

I don't bother with the pub run Gandalf.  Im saying what Ive seen. I hope GFS is beaten by UKMO re the Big Day but its in the ascendancy at present.


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Gooner
19 December 2021 18:49:13

The HP seems to shrink and shrink until it's nothing , yet these long range forecasts show strong heights to the NW ..........so what havent they seen 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus

Banbury

North Oxfordshire

378 feet A S L



Chunky Pea
19 December 2021 18:50:44

 

Do yo not think that the proven performance stats count for more?

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 

I'm sure on a 'global scale' yes, but I have noted more than once that the GFS often picks up on broader trends for this small part of the world quicker, or at least more accurately, than the ECMWF does. That said, a big plus the the ECMWF just recently was picking up on that bomb low that crossed right over me a week or so back well in advance and with remarkable precision. 


Patrick,

East Galway, Ireland.

Brian Gaze
19 December 2021 18:57:53

MOGREPS 12z also seems to favour a cold Christmas day even in the south.


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

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The Beast from the East
19 December 2021 19:00:17

And you just know that as soon as the models find a cruddy solution they will stick with it.

Originally Posted by: Rob K 

Yes, always seems to happen. Still a few runs to turn it around but if tomorrow mornings ECM is the same, its game over

 


Purley, Surrey, 70m ASL

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