I think it always pretty obvious the Conservatives and Lib-Dems would become very unpopular, early on in the Parliament. The issue for the Tories is whether they can get the deficit down and get the economy recovering in a way that people can actually FEEL the recovery by 2015. If they can I could easily see the Conservatives doing MUCH better by the election. If they can't, well its curtains...

I think it always pretty obvious the Conservatives and Lib-Dems would become very unpopular, early on in the Parliament. The issue for the Tories is whether they can get the deficit down and get the economy recovering in a way that people can actually FEEL the recovery by 2015. If they can I could easily see the government doing MUCH better by the election. If they can't, well its curtains...

That is the strategy - cool heads are called for....

Reduce the size of the state, get private sector growth going and rebalance the economy.

I am annoyed though that the fully justified anger against Labour over the mess they created, has not materialised. I guess people have not looked under the lid at the real causes of our predicament.

MORI

Con 33% Lab 43% Lib-Dem 13% Lab Lead 10%

 Shockingly bad polling for the Tories, not even a full year into government. Following the embarassing debacle of getting British citizens out of Libya, one can only assume they will poll even lower in the next one.

I hadn't realised just how unpopular they had become - Labour have been so quiet recently and the new leader so uncharismatic that I just assumed the Tories would still be in the lead 

The Tories desperately need to do something to regain the support of the country or, when the cuts really start to bite, well, the mind boggles just how unpopular they will become.....

 

I am cool about it - it is all completely meaningless at this stage of the game. Although, I am annoyed at how inept the Coalition has been at getting across the reason for and the need for the cuts.

To be honest, I think most people understand that the cuts are required, but maybe they are voicing concern through the polls at the way they are being implemented.

The problem is that humans are inherantly contradictory. The evidence before the election was that people realised and agreed with cuts in principle, but when pollsters put various potential cuts to voters, they were against nearly all of them.

People don't mind cuts when its just an abstract concept, but when its their swimming pool, care home, library, hospital ward, childs classroom, etc... that is being cut, they will usually be opposed - Hence the unpopularity of the government.

I think it always pretty obvious the Conservatives and Lib-Dems would become very unpopular, early on in the Parliament. The issue for the Tories is whether they can get the deficit down and get the economy recovering in a way that people can actually FEEL the recovery by 2015. If they can I could easily see the government doing MUCH better by the election. If they can't, well its curtains...

That is the strategy - cool heads are called for....

Reduce the size of the state, get private sector growth going and rebalance the economy.

I am annoyed though that the fully justified anger against Labour over the mess they created, has not materialised. I guess people have not looked under the lid at the real causes of our predicament.

Humm. I think we are as a nation, in debt, and a lot.

Otoh, last night I drove past our school (building a new sports hall) and a brand new school in Exeter. Newton Abbot has a new small hospital. Do I think the private sector would build these new public facilities? Nope. Do I see them as a waste of money? No. Would I rather the country not in debt but had crap public hospitals and schools? Nope.

I think I look on public debt, at least in part, as investment. In twenty years time wont better hospitals and schools (part of Labour's 'mess they created') mean a better nation? I think so.

That's the problem I see. I'm not one to rail against this Govt, I see there is a (small) liberal influence, but I don't simply see what Labour did as a total waste, far from that. Yes, there are things we can cut, but I'd cut more slowly and less deeply.

The other two great issues that will be driving government unpopularity are the ever rising cost of petrol and the more general rising cost of living - Both of these will always cause whoever is in power to become deeply unpopular.

MORI

Con 33% Lab 43% Lib-Dem 13% Lab Lead 10%

 Shockingly bad polling for the Tories, not even a full year into government. Following the embarassing debacle of getting British citizens out of Libya, one can only assume they will poll even lower in the next one.

I hadn't realised just how unpopular they had become - Labour have been so quiet recently and the new leader so uncharismatic that I just assumed the Tories would still be in the lead 

The Tories desperately need to do something to regain the support of the country or, when the cuts really start to bite, well, the mind boggles just how unpopular they will become.....

 

I am cool about it - it is all completely meaningless at this stage of the game. Although, I am annoyed at how inept the Coalition has been at getting across the reason for and the need for the cuts.

I think it always pretty obvious the Conservatives and Lib-Dems would become very unpopular, early on in the Parliament. The issue for the Tories is whether they can get the deficit down and get the economy recovering in a way that people can actually FEEL the recovery by 2015. If they can I could easily see the government doing MUCH better by the election. If they can't, well its curtains...

That is the strategy - cool heads are called for....

Reduce the size of the state, get private sector growth going and rebalance the economy.

I am annoyed though that the fully justified anger against Labour over the mess they created, has not materialised. I guess people have not looked under the lid at the real causes of our predicament.

Humm. I think we are as a nation, in debt, and a lot.

Otoh, last night I drove past our school (building a new sports hall) and a brand new school in Exeter. Newton Abbot has a new small hospital. Do I think the private sector would build these new public facilities? Nope. Do I see them as a waste of money? No. Would I rather the country not in debt but had crap public hospitals and schools? Nope.

I think I look on public debt, at least in part, as investment. In twenty years time wont better hospitals and schools (part of Labour's 'mess they created') mean a better nation? I think so.

That's the problem I see. I'm not one to rail against this Govt, I see there is a (small) liberal influence, but I don't simply see what Labour did as a total waste, far from that. Yes, there are things we can cut, but I'd cut more slowly and less deeply.

MORI

Con 33% Lab 43% Lib-Dem 13% Lab Lead 10%

 Shockingly bad polling for the Tories, not even a full year into government. Following the embarassing debacle of getting British citizens out of Libya, one can only assume they will poll even lower in the next one.

I hadn't realised just how unpopular they had become - Labour have been so quiet recently and the new leader so uncharismatic that I just assumed the Tories would still be in the lead 

The Tories desperately need to do something to regain the support of the country or, when the cuts really start to bite, well, the mind boggles just how unpopular they will become.....

 

I am cool about it - it is all completely meaningless at this stage of the game. Although, I am annoyed at how inept the Coalition has been at getting across the reason for and the need for the cuts.

Why on earth do you expect the coalition to point the finger for our financial problems, towards Brown, despite all his failings, when the world system has been put at risk by the inept bankers trading in crap bonds. It wasn't Brown's fault that many other countries have had problems. Lets please have a more realistic apportioning of blame.

The problem has been gone over umpteen times PolarWind - on the banking crisis, yes that cannot be wholly laid at the door of the previous Government, but it was the BallsBrown policy to have light touch regulation and it was BallsBrown who created the useless Financial Services Authority.

On the deficit - it was Brown who was running with a large structural deficit before the Credit Crunch, i.e. after 16 years of unbroken growth - that is why we are in a worse mess than most comparable countries.

As for Peter's point about new schools and hospitals - yes, nice to have, but they haven't even been paid for yet, since they were mostly built using costly PFI processes - the current account deficit has been caused by other bloating of the public sector by Brown.

Humm. I think we are as a nation, in debt, and a lot.

Otoh, last night I drove past our school (building a new sports hall) and a brand new school in Exeter. Newton Abbot has a new small hospital. Do I think the private sector would build these new public facilities? Nope. Do I see them as a waste of money? No. Would I rather the country not in debt but had crap public hospitals and schools? Nope.

I think I look on public debt, at least in part, as investment. In twenty years time wont better hospitals and schools (part of Labour's 'mess they created') mean a better nation? I think so.

That's the problem I see. I'm not one to rail against this Govt, I see there is a (small) liberal influence, but I don't simply see what Labour did as a total waste, far from that. Yes, there are things we can cut, but I'd cut more slowly and less deeply.

On schools and hospitals - mostly, they haven't been paid for yet - they were funded out of costly PFI and will be paid for over the next 25 to 50 years (at high cost too, if you read the press about it). Nice to have, but not really a legacy of Brown's spending splurge, since they haven't been paid for yet. Brown managed to give us the worst structural deficit of any comparable country, prior to the Credit Crunch, hence the headache the Coalition are having to deal with now.

On cutting more deeply and quickly, or less - that is purely a matter for judgement and the jury is out at the moment. If we can maintain economic growth at the same time as cutting, then the dividends will flow back later, as the cost of funding public debt is reduced as a proportion of expenditure. It is all about swings and roundabouts and hoping for the best - only time will tell.

The problem has been gone over umpteen times PolarWind

And yet you still misrepresent it, Maunder

The problem has been gone over umpteen times PolarWind

And yet you still misrepresent it, Maunder

 

How do I misrepresent it Saint? You yourself have agreed on several occasions that Brown was wrong to run with a large public spending deficit after umpteeen years of growth - I know your solution would have been different from mine ( you would have funded the spend with higher taxes), but at least I thought we agreed on the deficit itself being reckless economics.

And in what way am I wrong about PFI? It was a means of deferring the cost of infrastructure investment.

Humm. I think we are as a nation, in debt, and a lot.

Otoh, last night I drove past our school (building a new sports hall) and a brand new school in Exeter. Newton Abbot has a new small hospital. Do I think the private sector would build these new public facilities? Nope. Do I see them as a waste of money? No. Would I rather the country not in debt but had crap public hospitals and schools? Nope.

I think I look on public debt, at least in part, as investment. In twenty years time wont better hospitals and schools (part of Labour's 'mess they created') mean a better nation? I think so.

That's the problem I see. I'm not one to rail against this Govt, I see there is a (small) liberal influence, but I don't simply see what Labour did as a total waste, far from that. Yes, there are things we can cut, but I'd cut more slowly and less deeply.

On schools and hospitals - mostly, they haven't been paid for yet - they were funded out of costly PFI and will be paid for over the next 25 to 50 years (at high cost too, if you read the press about it). Nice to have, but not really a legacy of Brown's spending splurge, since they haven't been paid for yet. Brown managed to give us the worst structural deficit of any comparable country, prior to the Credit Crunch, hence the headache the Coalition are having to deal with now.

We're clearly better of (as in the measures (atm) seem less draconian) than many countries (piggies) but I still don't see, what is wrong with borrowing - mortgages. Ok, the price may bwe high but the principle is one many, many homes follow.

On cutting more deeply and quickly, or less - that is purely a matter for judgement and the jury is out at the moment. If we can maintain economic growth at the same time as cutting, then the dividends will flow back later, as the cost of funding public debt is reduced as a proportion of expenditure. It is all about swings and roundabouts and hoping for the best - only time will tell.

We're way OT, but this 'dividend' business is interesting, and if it happens will further define the Govt. For me any dividend should go on improving (or recovering) public services, I wonder if the Govt will want tax cuts. Like I say it will further define them.

The problem has been gone over umpteen times PolarWind

And yet you still misrepresent it, Maunder

 

How do I misrepresent it Saint? You yourself have agreed on several occasions that Brown was wrong to run with a large public spending deficit after umpteeen years of growth - I know your solution would have been different from mine ( you would have funded the spend with higher taxes), but at least I thought we agreed on the deficit itself being reckless economics.

And in what way am I wrong about PFI? It was a means of deferring the cost of infrastructure investment.

Yes, we agree that it was wrong for NuLabour to run a budget deficit in a time on sustained growth. But that didn't *cause* the economic meltdown.

You also like to point the finger at Brown for a policy of 'light touch regulation' and for setting up the FSA.

Firstly, Brown continued the 'light touch regulation' which he inherited in 1997. He and others in NL knew full well that, should they try to re-regulate the City, they'd have been castigated by both the City itself and the predominantrly right-wing media for suffocating the City in red tape and bureaucracy - especially at a time when rival financial centres were either de-regulating or running a regulatory policy already much, much lighter than London's (eg, those in the Far East)

Secondly, the FSA was set up to oversee the implementation of and adherence to the existing regulations. Of this, it succeeded. THe problem wasn't the policing of existing regulation, rather the regulation itself.

Saying that, nobody - and I mean nobody - foresaw the exact nature and severity of the banking shitstorm before it was too late. Yes, some predicted doom in certain isolated aspects, and double-yes, it was clear there was a bubble, but nobody had a clear idea of the whole picture and how it would impact. If they had, the hundreds of billions of $'s wouldn't have been lost by the global banking fraternity.

PS - agree with you about PFI

PS - agree with you about PFI

Agree with most of your previous comment as well.

However, I have never suggested Brown or Labour caused the Credit Crunch, but rather that they left this country more vulnerable to the consequences of it than would have been the case, if they had been following a sustainable fiscal policy. Don't forget that Brown drove a coach and horses through his own "Golden Rule" on sustainable Government finances.

The other two great issues that will be driving government unpopularity are the ever rising cost of petrol and the more general rising cost of living - Both of these will always cause whoever is in power to become deeply unpopular.

The other two great issues that will be driving government unpopularity are the ever rising cost of petrol and the more general rising cost of living - Both of these will always cause whoever is in power to become deeply unpopular.

Unemployment is also the key issue. As we have seen in America, even though the economy is growing, unemployment has remained stagnant. Crime is also another issue. That is likely to go through the roof as the hardship increases, youth projects and training are shut down, benefits cut and fewer cops on the streets.

Sounds like some wishful thinking there Beast. Did you watch QT last night - I have found the last couple of QTs quite interesting. I don't get the sense that Labour are liked as an alternative Government, whatever the polls may be saying.

The black propaganda being put out by the TUC about job losses in the NHS - 50,000 jobs represents only 2% of the total workforce in that leviathan, the largest employer after the Red Army and the Indian post office. Labour had a review done by McKinsey in 2009 and that factored in at least 100,000 job losses. Why does Labour wheel out Peter Hain? - he is awful - I know of absolutely no one who likes the guy - even his fellow Labour MPs seem to hate him - didn't he come bottom in the Deputy Leadership poll?

Sounds like some wishful thinking there Beast. Did you watch QT last night - I have found the last couple of QTs quite interesting. I don't get the sense that Labour are liked as an alternative Government, whatever the polls may be saying.

 Quite. I don't like this government, but the I like Labour even less.

Sounds like some wishful thinking there Beast. Did you watch QT last night - I have found the last couple of QTs quite interesting. I don't get the sense that Labour are liked as an alternative Government, whatever the polls may be saying.

 Quite. I don't like this government, but the I like Labour even less.

I agree, as a Labour voter I don't particularly like the labour government past or current. I have quite a bit of ill feeling towards most MP's at the moment but thats a whole new thread. 

This government had the chance to do something different, to merge two parties ideas and that COULD have worked and started to help to sort this country out. Instead the lib dems folded far too quickly just to remain in power, and well, we (well most of us) are starting to see and feel the negative impact that these cuts are going to have for many many years to come.

I think the subject of crime and feeling secure is going to be a massive issue in years to come, and one this government is underestimating. I was horrified to hear that our police force of going to be losing at least 150 police officers over the next couple of years!