The Weather Outlook

Remove ads from site

KevBrads1
28 July 2019 14:05:53

 

That has to be a record for Shetland, surely?

Originally Posted by: Bolty 

Got to 27.8C at Sumburgh on 6th August 1910


MANCHESTER SUMMER INDEX for 2021: 238

Timelapses, old weather forecasts and natural phenomena videos can be seen on this site

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgrSD1BwFz2feWDTydhpEhQ/playlists

scillydave
28 July 2019 17:49:55
Helsinki set an all time record of 33.2c today shattering the old one by 1.6c

They've recorded temperatures on the site for over 160 years so quite a record to break.


Currently living at roughly 65m asl North of Cowbridge in the Vale of Glamorgan.

Formerly of, Birdlip, highest village in the Cotswolds and snow heaven in winter; Hawkinge in Kent - roof of the South downs and Isles of Scilly, paradise in the UK.

DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
28 July 2019 18:28:57

More blogger onslaught on the CUBG provisional record.

Originally Posted by: RobN 

You would expect Horticultural Establishments, e.g Cambridge Botanic, Brogdale, RHS gardens, to have a close interest in recording weather. So it's a bit surprising that they don't have MetO approved sites and equipment, and immediately trusted readings.


War is God's way of teaching Americans geography - Ambrose Bierce

Chichester 12m asl

Stormchaser
28 July 2019 19:28:59

Been very busy so only just finding a moment to chip in on the record debate.

IMO, bare soils heating up more than most natural surfaces isn't a valid reason to discard a reading, as after all, it's not like it will have only affected the exact location of that station. The general vicinity will have been that hot too, i.e. there probably was some record-breaking heat in the locality.

That the nearby Cambridge stations came so close before cloud interrupted things, and with the temp having been rising determinedly until that happened, lends some credibility to the notion of temps reaching at least another half a degree higher should the Botanical Gardens have  held onto the sun for another half hour, say.

There's also the extraordinarily widespread nature of temps hitting 35*C and above that afternoon. Perhaps a record in its own right? Under such conditions it would be surprising if there wasn't at least one spot within that hit an all-time record high.


Sometimes I wonder what the national record would be if unusual microclimates were permitted. For example, there are sheltered spots in the heath lands of the New Forest with large expanses of very sandy soils that have probably exceeded 40*C on multiple occasions.

Same goes for records in other countries. Fun to imagine, but understandable that the intention of the observation network is to capture the records for the environments in which people spend most of their time. Though I do wonder about mountain weather stations in that regard!


If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

https://twitter.com/peacockreports 

2025's Homeland Extremes:

T-Max: 32.0°C 12th Aug | T-Min: -5.4°C 4th Jan | Wettest Day: 31.8 mm 18th Dec | Ice Days: None

Keep Calm and Forecast On

Hungry Tiger
28 July 2019 19:35:08

Been very busy so only just finding a moment to chip in on the record debate.

IMO, bare soils heating up more than most natural surfaces isn't a valid reason to discard a reading, as after all, it's not like it will have only affected the exact location of that station. The general vicinity will have been that hot too, i.e. there probably was some record-breaking heat in the locality.

That the nearby Cambridge stations came so close before cloud interrupted things, and with the temp having been rising determinedly until that happened, lends some credibility to the notion of temps reaching at least another half a degree higher should the Botanical Gardens have  held onto the sun for another half hour, say.

There's also the extraordinarily widespread nature of temps hitting 35*C and above that afternoon. Perhaps a record in its own right? Under such conditions it would be surprising if there wasn't at least one spot within that hit an all-time record high.


Sometimes I wonder what the national record would be if unusual microclimates were permitted. For example, there are sheltered spots in the heath lands of the New Forest with large expanses of very sandy soils that have probably exceeded 40*C on multiple occasions.

Same goes for records in other countries. Fun to imagine, but understandable that the intention of the observation network is to capture the records for the environments in which people spend most of their time. Though I do wonder about mountain weather stations in that regard!

Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 

Well said James.

 


Gavin S. FRmetS.

TWO Moderator.

Contact the TWO team - [email protected]

South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.



lanky
28 July 2019 19:41:45

Been very busy so only just finding a moment to chip in on the record debate.

IMO, bare soils heating up more than most natural surfaces isn't a valid reason to discard a reading, as after all, it's not like it will have only affected the exact location of that station. The general vicinity will have been that hot too, i.e. there probably was some record-breaking heat in the locality.

That the nearby Cambridge stations came so close before cloud interrupted things, and with the temp having been rising determinedly until that happened, lends some credibility to the notion of temps reaching at least another half a degree higher should the Botanical Gardens have  held onto the sun for another half hour, say.

There's also the extraordinarily widespread nature of temps hitting 35*C and above that afternoon. Perhaps a record in its own right? Under such conditions it would be surprising if there wasn't at least one spot within that hit an all-time record high.


Sometimes I wonder what the national record would be if unusual microclimates were permitted. For example, there are sheltered spots in the heath lands of the New Forest with large expanses of very sandy soils that have probably exceeded 40*C on multiple occasions.

Same goes for records in other countries. Fun to imagine, but understandable that the intention of the observation network is to capture the records for the environments in which people spend most of their time. Though I do wonder about mountain weather stations in that regard!

Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 

I would have thought that a straight comparison of all the daily max data for (say) this summer between the two Cambridge sites in question would help resolve the issue quite quickly

If the two sites are generally in good agreement then the new result at the Botanic Gardens is likely to be valid but if the BG site consistently shows higher maxima then it should be treated with great caution

 


Martin

Richmond, Surrey

Quantum
28 July 2019 20:24:43

Been very busy so only just finding a moment to chip in on the record debate.

IMO, bare soils heating up more than most natural surfaces isn't a valid reason to discard a reading, as after all, it's not like it will have only affected the exact location of that station. The general vicinity will have been that hot too, i.e. there probably was some record-breaking heat in the locality.

That the nearby Cambridge stations came so close before cloud interrupted things, and with the temp having been rising determinedly until that happened, lends some credibility to the notion of temps reaching at least another half a degree higher should the Botanical Gardens have  held onto the sun for another half hour, say.

There's also the extraordinarily widespread nature of temps hitting 35*C and above that afternoon. Perhaps a record in its own right? Under such conditions it would be surprising if there wasn't at least one spot within that hit an all-time record high.


Sometimes I wonder what the national record would be if unusual microclimates were permitted. For example, there are sheltered spots in the heath lands of the New Forest with large expanses of very sandy soils that have probably exceeded 40*C on multiple occasions.

Same goes for records in other countries. Fun to imagine, but understandable that the intention of the observation network is to capture the records for the environments in which people spend most of their time. Though I do wonder about mountain weather stations in that regard!

Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 

Can we not use satellite data to actually work this out? That's where the suspected antartic record of -93C came from and the Iranian desert record of 60C+ came from.

 


25/26 (850hpa temp) 11 days snow/sleet falling

18/11 (-4) 19/11 (-6) 20/11 (-6) 01/01 (-7) 04/01 (-10) 10/01 (-7) 11/01 (-3) 30/01 (-1) 13/02 (-6) 15/02 (-4) 18/02 (-6)

24/25 10d

18/11 (-6) 19/11 (-6) 23/11 (-2) 22/12 (-5) 04/01 (-5) 05/01 (0)14/02 (0) 15/02 (0)12/03 (-6) 13/03 (-6)

23/24 8d

29/11 (-6) 30/11 (-6) 02/12 (-5) 03/12 (-5) 04/12 (-3) 16/01 (-3) 18/01 (-8)08/02 (-5)

22/23 7d

18/12 (-1)06/03 (-6) 08/03 (-8) 09/03 (-6) 10/03 (-8) 11/03 (-5) 14/03 (-6)

21/22 12d

DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
29 July 2019 05:57:13

 

Can we not use satellite data to actually work this out? That's where the suspected antartic record of -93C came from and the Iranian desert record of 60C+ came from. 

Originally Posted by: Quantum 

To tenths of a degree, which is what's needed here? Satellites would need to be very good (but they can be, these days) to pick out a localised spot fitting the MetO criteria for a record in the middle of the very mixed terrain of an urban area.


War is God's way of teaching Americans geography - Ambrose Bierce

Chichester 12m asl

Brian Gaze
29 July 2019 06:46:01
I see there are now suggestions the CBG Stevenson screen has been moved several times in recent years. Do we know if that is the case and if so then why?
Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 

"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan

james
29 July 2019 08:19:37

I see there are now suggestions the CBG Stevenson screen has been moved several times in recent years. Do we know if that is the case and if so then why?

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

I am only aware that the site was moved once in recent times (about 120ft to the SSE) to make way for the Sainsbury Laboratory which opened in 2011.

james
29 July 2019 08:34:18

Well this has certainly entered the local political discourse here in Cambridge this morning:

 

james
29 July 2019 09:25:20

Another way to help verify the BG reading is the British Antarctic Survey weather station in West Cambridge. It's located in a sheltered location surrounded by buildings (see here). However as noted in this letter to the Weather journal it was compared to the BG reading in 2003 so could provide a possibly useful comparison this time.

severnside
29 July 2019 09:39:00

Some interesting reading and comments in this link about the site https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2019/07/27/cambridge-botanical-too-compromised-for-climatological-purposes/

On map images it does not look like a good location for a Stevenson screen.

also this link; https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2019/07/26/met-office-claims-of-new-record-at-cambridge-look-very-dodgy/

 

 

Gavin D
29 July 2019 16:06:32

38.7c officially confirmed 

 

Quantum
29 July 2019 16:10:32

Is that all of the manual/climate stations?

Any more still to come?

 


25/26 (850hpa temp) 11 days snow/sleet falling

18/11 (-4) 19/11 (-6) 20/11 (-6) 01/01 (-7) 04/01 (-10) 10/01 (-7) 11/01 (-3) 30/01 (-1) 13/02 (-6) 15/02 (-4) 18/02 (-6)

24/25 10d

18/11 (-6) 19/11 (-6) 23/11 (-2) 22/12 (-5) 04/01 (-5) 05/01 (0)14/02 (0) 15/02 (0)12/03 (-6) 13/03 (-6)

23/24 8d

29/11 (-6) 30/11 (-6) 02/12 (-5) 03/12 (-5) 04/12 (-3) 16/01 (-3) 18/01 (-8)08/02 (-5)

22/23 7d

18/12 (-1)06/03 (-6) 08/03 (-8) 09/03 (-6) 10/03 (-8) 11/03 (-5) 14/03 (-6)

21/22 12d

Ally Pally Snowman
29 July 2019 16:13:15

38.7c officially confirmed 

 

Originally Posted by: Gavin D 

 

Splendid news it was a heatwave that deserved to have the all time record. 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Retron
29 July 2019 16:13:26

38.7c officially confirmed 

Originally Posted by: Gavin D 

Congratulations to Cambridge!

(And a sense of relief now, as it means the whinging / conspiracy theories against Brogdale will now cease!)


Leysdown, north Kent
RobR
  • RobR
  • Advanced Member
29 July 2019 16:14:38

I'm sure all the climate worriers will be hating that stat, but fantastic news I say, it deserved a new record (and one that is slightly more North of London!)/


Winter 23/24 in Nantwich

Days Snow Falling: 4

Days Snow Lying: 1

Deepest Snowfall: 3rd December 23 (2cm)

Winter 22/23 in Nantwich

Days Snow Falling: 4

Days Snow Lying: 2

Deepest Snowfall: 10th March (3cm)

Latest Snowfall: 10th March

Winter 21/22 in Nantwich

Days Snow Falling: 3

Days Snow Lying: 1

Deepest Snowfall: 28th November (3cm)

Latest Snowfall: 31st March

Winter 20/21 in Solihull

Days Snow Falling: 21

Days Snow Lying: 8

Deepest Snowfall: 24th January (9cm)

Latest Snowfall: 12th April

Winter 19/20 in Stoke

Days Snow Falling: 5

Days Snow Lying: 2

Deepest Snowfall: 10th Feb (5cm)

Winter 18/19 in Stoke

Days Snow Falling: 6

Days Snow Lying: 6

Deepest Snowfall: 29th Jan (3cm)

Winter 17/18 in Stoke

Days Snow Falling: 27

Days Snow Lying: 24

Deepest Snowfall: 18th March 2018 (10cm)

Arcus
29 July 2019 16:16:51
Just the reading from Jiries' shed to come in now.
Ben,

Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire

30m asl

Bolty
29 July 2019 16:17:07

I'm sure all the climate worriers will be hating that stat, but fantastic news I say, it deserved a new record (and one that is slightly more North of London!)/

Originally Posted by: RobR 

Indeed! Great to see a new record set. I'll be celebrating it, even if the "do as I say, not as I do" brigade don't like it.


Scott

Blackrod, Lancashire (4 miles south of Chorley) at 156m asl.

My weather station 

Saint Snow
29 July 2019 16:25:24

Just the reading from Jiries' shed to come in now.

Originally Posted by: Arcus 

 

Or 'Death Valley' as it's more commonly known. 


Martin

Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)

A TWO addict since 14/12/01

"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."

Aneurin Bevan

David M Porter
29 July 2019 16:26:06

Its funny how the very recent heat records have been broken during the less than brilliant summers and not during the two good summers of this decade, 2013 and 2018.

 

Originally Posted by: KevBrads1 

Indeed Kevin, and just as happened in July 2015, this record that has just been confirmed occured during what was at best a transient heatwave lasting only a few days at the most. The 2003 record which has just been surpassed happened during a fortnight-long heatwave IIRC, although temperatures did drop a bit after the record was set on 10th August. Interesting too that the highest temperature recorded last year happened just before the long settled spell came to an end.

The pressure set-up we had last week was literally a carbon copy of early July 2015; a deep low which was slow-moving to the west of Ireland and an anticyclone over the continent, both of which combined to send up some exceptionally hot air over the UK for a few days. Once the July 2015 heatwave broke down, we were then stuck in an unsettled and rather cooler pattern for the rest of that month. The only two summers which were notably good overall which created any records were 2003 (then hottest day on record) and 2006 (then hottest July day on record). It is interesting that these records have now both been surpassed during what were only transient as opposed to sustained heatwaves.

Looking at the current model output though, I think it could be a while before we see temperatures anywhere near the values that we had last week again this summer, if we do at all.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"A body of men holding themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody." – Thomas Paine

johncs2016
29 July 2019 16:28:03
Yes, I think that this was a record which deserved to stand.

Having said that though, I don't really see this as a reason to celebrate and if anything, I would be rather concerned about just how often these highest temperature records are being broken these days.

Whilst we can't say that any particular record being broken is down to climate change, the fact that these records are being beaten on such a regular basis means that climate change has to be playing a significant part in that. For that reason, this makes very concerned about our overall future here on this planet.


The north of Edinburgh, usually always missing out on snow events which occur not just within the rest of Scotland or the UK, but also within the rest of Edinburgh.

David M Porter
29 July 2019 16:33:39

Yes, I think that this was a record which deserved to stand.

Having said that though, I don't really see this as a reason to celebrate and if anything, I would be rather concerned about just how often these highest temperature records are being broken these days.

Whilst we can't say that any particular record being broken is down to climate change, the fact that these records are being beaten on such a regular basis means that climate change has to be playing a significant part in that. For that reason, this makes very concerned about our overall future here on this planet.

Originally Posted by: johncs2016 

I take your point John and I don't disagree. However I for one would be reticent about discussing that issue to any extent on here bearing in mind what Brian said earlier in the year. Unless, that is, I am prepared to risk getting myself banned permanently from this forum!


Lenzie, Glasgow

"A body of men holding themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody." – Thomas Paine

Heavy Weather 2013
29 July 2019 16:52:57
Wonderful news. I am so happy we secured the record!
Mark

Beckton, E London

Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.

Remove ads from site