The Weather Outlook

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Solar Cycles
07 January 2019 14:22:53

 

The Met Office will update that as normal as soon as they have updated information which should soon start to mention the possibility of some proper cold conditions developing.

Things can and do change very quickly so as surprise earlier cold shot is not out of the question.

Originally Posted by: Weathermac 

Indeed, hence why they’ve been moving forward since the end of last month. 😁

ballamar
07 January 2019 16:34:34
Tentative signs of a good run, time will tell but looks like it could end up cold

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSOPEU12_207_1.png 

Solar Cycles
07 January 2019 16:35:09

 

You know that those updates are kept quite vague and non-committal until the signals are consistent and strong so it shouldn't be a surprise and nor does it counter the model output, since it's still beyond the range of what we see.

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 

Indeed they are but one thing that’s stuck out for me is the delay of any potential cold set up. Now yes the signal for cold is still there and must still be high in the pecking order in what both MOGREPS and GLOSEA are seeing but it remains to be seen whether or not we actually ever see this at ground level.

doctormog
07 January 2019 16:46:49

So, the story so far today is that change to unsettled conditions midmonth is is still on track with colder interludes in the north and then possible more widespread beyond then. Irrespective of any cold, what looks most probable is the switch to more mobile cyclonic conditions, and I’m not really using the term zonal for a good reason.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSOPEU12_201_1.png 

The switch has been very clear but what winter weather fans will be looking for is to see if the next stage develops as hinted at by the GFS/P runs.


ballamar
07 January 2019 16:51:14

So, the story so far today is that change to unsettled conditions midmonth is is still on track with colder interludes in the north and then possible more widespread beyond then. Irrespective of any cold, what looks most probable is the switch to more mobile cyclonic conditions, and I’m not really using the term zonal for a good reason.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSOPEU12_201_1.png

The switch has been very clear but what winter weather fans will be looking for is to see if the next stage develops as hinted at by the GFS/P runs.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 

 

The PV split is beginning to show in the closer time fram which is our potential to the cold developing showing nicely on the GFS run now where it leads for the UK who knows

Ally Pally Snowman
07 January 2019 17:05:02

All starts to kick off again on the 19th very consistent from the GFS Op . Only 12 days to go what can possibly go wrong?

 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Russwirral
07 January 2019 17:13:09
Its odd isnt it

From what im seeing. The GFS is presenting its usual winter stuff. No cold for UK within say 7 days. Typical FI Blue colours presented in all sorts of imaginative ways.

However because there is a SSW about it seems everyone is a little bit on edge with whats being presented. Ive gotta say, nothing that the GFS has produced during this SSW has been consistent or that severe enough for me to sit up and think - ey up, maybe this is the SSW impacting the charts.

If you presented the current charts last year or any other year - i doubt anyone would give it a second glance. From my perspective theres nothing of any interest in the charts this year. I wouldnt be surprised if this year ends up being the year we measure other SSW's against as a warning to get excited.

It just seems like maybe this year will be remembered for the mid atlantic HP rather than anything else. And also - how vastly different the LRFs have been to reality (So far)

Hopefully Im wrong.


DPower
07 January 2019 17:13:54

Gfs12z keeps the trend going post t192 albeit it loses its way I think towards the end. With forcing from the strat getting stronger by the day (down welling) high latitude blocking should become much more prevelent in the coming days. 

We are still talking post 17 -18 Jan therefore detail will vary run to run but theme will remain.

doctormog
07 January 2019 17:19:45

Its odd isnt it

From what im seeing. The GFS is presenting its usual winter stuff. No cold for UK within say 7 days. Typical FI Blue colours presented in all sorts of imaginative ways.

However because there is a SSW about it seems everyone is a little bit on edge with whats being presented. Ive gotta say, nothing that the GFS has produced during this SSW has been consistent or that severe enough for me to sit up and think - ey up, maybe this is the SSW impacting the charts.

If you presented the current charts last year or any other year - i doubt anyone would give it a second glance. From my perspective theres nothing of any interest in the charts this year. I wouldnt be surprised if this year ends up being the year we measure other SSW's against as a warning to get excited.

It just seems like maybe this year will be remembered for the mid atlantic HP rather than anything else. And also - how vastly different the LRFs have been to reality (So far)

Hopefully Im wrong.

Originally Posted by: Russwirral 

The change to more unsettled conditions  which started off a couple of weeks out about a week ago is now about a week out. The potential for cold has not changed, nor has the timescale (in the models not the forecasts). The cold is neither nailed on nor is it shown with lots of consistency but it is being hinted at. 

I'm not sure we will see a clear dip in the majority of ensemble members for a few days yet if it is to occur at all. It is certainly an interesting period for watching the output.


DPower
07 January 2019 17:21:26

 

 

The PV split is beginning to show in the closer time fram which is our potential to the cold developing showing nicely on the GFS run now where it leads for the UK who knows

Originally Posted by: ballamar 

It wouldn't be that much of a surprise to see colder charts appearing  at an earlier time frame as the models get to grips with the forcing from above.  We shall see.

fairweather
07 January 2019 17:29:42

Its odd isnt it

From what im seeing. The GFS is presenting its usual winter stuff. No cold for UK within say 7 days. Typical FI Blue colours presented in all sorts of imaginative ways.

However because there is a SSW about it seems everyone is a little bit on edge with whats being presented. Ive gotta say, nothing that the GFS has produced during this SSW has been consistent or that severe enough for me to sit up and think - ey up, maybe this is the SSW impacting the charts.

If you presented the current charts last year or any other year - i doubt anyone would give it a second glance. From my perspective theres nothing of any interest in the charts this year. I wouldnt be surprised if this year ends up being the year we measure other SSW's against as a warning to get excited.

It just seems like maybe this year will be remembered for the mid atlantic HP rather than anything else. And also - how vastly different the LRFs have been to reality (So far)

Hopefully Im wrong.

Originally Posted by: Russwirral 

Accurate assessment but the last sentence is still a strong possibilty with two months or so to go.


S.Essex, 42m ASL
Ally Pally Snowman
07 January 2019 17:43:32

Lovely GFS Control   goes cold as early as the 18th and stays very cold to the end of the run.

 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
nsrobins
07 January 2019 17:45:14
Some reasoned commentary in here today. We’re approaching a fascinating period of model watching as we wait to see how the NWP handles the significant effects of the recent SSW, namely the zonal wind reversal which is modelled to downwell to the surface around the 19th.

The first effect should be a definitive raising of heights over the pole and then a dislocation of the splintered PV segments into mid latitudes. Two or three of the ‘gaps’ created will act as conduits for cold surface air to flood south below the Arctic circle.

This in very simple terms is what I’m expecting and we should see a steady rise in the number of extended EC and GFS members showing this as the week progresses.


Neil

Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)

Stormchaser, Member TORRO

JACKO4EVER
07 January 2019 18:07:31

Some reasoned commentary in here today. We’re approaching a fascinating period of model watching as we wait to see how the NWP handles the significant effects of the recent SSW, namely the zonal wind reversal which is modelled to downwell to the surface around the 19th.
The first effect should be a definitive raising of heights over the pole and then a dislocation of the splintered PV segments into mid latitudes. Two or three of the ‘gaps’ created will act as conduits for cold surface air to flood south below the Arctic circle.
This in very simple terms is what I’m expecting and we should see a steady rise in the number of extended EC and GFS members showing this as the week progresses.

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 

A very reasoned post, let’s hope it pans out like suggested. ENS watch it is then 

Ally Pally Snowman
07 January 2019 18:16:00

GFS Para also goes cold on the 18th stays blocked to the end

 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
fairweather
07 January 2019 18:50:46

Looking at the latest GFS 12z ensembles there is now a slight cluster developing after the 20th well below the mean which still sits at -4C. Those above the mean are more spread and if they are eliminated as outliers in the next couple of days the mean is going to drop below -5C.

The control and op are right at the bottom though and the control is a cold outlier, but hey it is -12C !

Nothing dramatic in the near enough future but more signs of things going in the cold direction I would say.


S.Essex, 42m ASL
Karl Guille
07 January 2019 18:55:38

My previous concerns were clearly unfounded with snow now "guaranteed" for my Birthday!! 


St. Sampson

Guernsey

marting
07 January 2019 19:08:22
Ensembles do look a lot better tonight, with the mean dropping well below as things progress. Consistency on high pressure mid block to north moving towards 240 zone.

Interesting in the ECM tonight to watch the west to east movement grind to a halt at 216 and then the Russian high pressure build at 240. One to watch.

Martin


Martin

Greasby, Wirral.

Shropshire
07 January 2019 19:11:34

Ensembles do look a lot better tonight, with the mean dropping well below as things progress. Consistency on high pressure mid block to north moving towards 240 zone.
Interesting in the ECM tonight to watch the west to east movement grind to a halt at 216 and then the Russian high pressure build at 240. One to watch.
Martin

Originally Posted by: marting 

The ECM is still a progressive chart at day 10 and could easily have us on the wrong side of the PFJ. Good troughing into Europe though.

 


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Hippydave
07 January 2019 19:14:15

Interesting end to GFS looking at the Jet - I'm assuming you'd expect a very disorganised jet following the impacts of a SSW but happy to be proved wrong on that


Home: Tunbridge Wells

Work: Tonbridge

Chunky Pea
07 January 2019 19:32:53

Interesting end to GFS looking at the Jet - I'm assuming you'd expect a very disorganised jet following the impacts of a SSW but happy to be proved wrong on that

Originally Posted by: Hippydave 

That is a nice looking weather chart. I don't mean synoptically, but more for its uncluttered simplicity. Less is more and all of that. 


Patrick,

East Galway, Ireland.

Gandalf The White
07 January 2019 19:43:13

 

The ECM is still a progressive chart at day 10 and could easily have us on the wrong side of the PFJ. Good troughing into Europe though.

 

Originally Posted by: Shropshire 

ECM still only covers the transition phase and the charts are in line with the Met Office forecast of a more changeable period. I doubt you were expecting much else.

Nonetheless the 12z run ends with cold uppers over the country.

T+216


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



LA2B MeridFlowEuro09
07 January 2019 19:55:25

We could start to see Cold NW flow by about Wednesday the 16th January, but by 17th January only the North and NE UK remains with the low T850 hPa air.

On next week Tuesday the 15th we should see a spell of rain across the UK with scattered blustery showers following behind during the morning and early afternoon.

Upto this coming Monday the 14th, the UK is affected by the Bartlett High, and it keeps us mostly dry and less cold in general, mild WNW winds at times over the Weekend on Saturday hmm, Bartlett Conditions again on the Sunday as well.

.

The flow is still Zonal in the North and NW Atlantic, with the less cold air meeting very cold air from Canada and these short wave Low Pressure areas move over the North Atlantic and Iceland areas etc.

Norwegian Sea and East Europe and NE Europe often seeing lots of very cold weather and cold arctic NW and NNW winds etc, wintry snow showers and longer spells of snow for some.

On the todays 12z ECMWF and GFS Models, at T168 and T192hours the prediction appears to differ in a big way from what I have seen...

That Low Pressure for 12th to 15th January 2019 is very interesting as it shows WAA in North and NW Central N Atlantic, and it turns Cyclonic very cold as it hits the very cold air from Canada Low Newfoundland and it's journey through Greenland bring a brief spell of less cold but as it moves off from Greenland to Norwegian Sea, to Svalbard and Norwegian Sea and then to NE Europe and Northwest Russia, it is featuring Cyclonic flow and very cold Arctic Air spreading out in it!!!.

.


Climate is warming up, Scotland and N Ireland and North England still often gets some Winter frost, ice and snow, November to March, but the SE and South UK including S Central England and Wales, together with the West and North through the year, they sometimes get more rain than London and S SE England, where some longer dry fine spells without much heavy rain is seen every year.

The North Atlantic Sea often gets some much Colder Wintry conditions from November to March Months, and Mild SW and South winds tend to be more frequent over the East and SE of North Atlantic Sea, as the Azores High tends to stay in charge. 

With this warmth and heat, the Central and South UK has become mostly free of snow and frost.

Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
07 January 2019 20:09:34

My previous concerns were clearly unfounded with snow now "guaranteed" for my Birthday!! 

Originally Posted by: Karl Guille 

 Mine too!  It just has to spread a little further South!  Maybe this is our year!  


Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.

Join the fun and banter of the monthly CET competition.

Arcus
07 January 2019 20:39:35

 

ECM still only covers the transition phase and the charts are in line with the Met Office forecast of a more changeable period. I doubt you were expecting much else.

Nonetheless the 12z run ends with cold uppers over the country.

T+216

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 

Indeed - and I think it's worth looking at two thing in the FI sections of the NWP at the moment:

  1. Relatively weak MLB/MHLB blocking is still resulting in colder scenarios in the longer term (cf GFS Op/Para low-res continually going cold),
  2. "Progressive" trends in terms of Atlantic influence can work in your favour for snow when a cold airmass is about. A clean GH or SH is not always the holy grail - you sometimes have to dance with the devil to hear the best tunes. 

Ben,

Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire

30m asl

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