The Weather Outlook

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Brian Gaze
04 December 2018 06:24:57

Looks like the inflection point was reached overnight, although the chance of a milder outcome isn't fully discounted.


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

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Gusty
04 December 2018 06:33:14

Inflection...great word ! 


Steve - Folkestone, Kent

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Gusty
04 December 2018 06:47:09

ECM easterly inbound at 192 hours.

A distinct lack of cold uppers to make things exciting with 850's of -6 to -7c from the initial easterly 

Any snowfall from this will be a caused by a front pushing up from the SW ahead of a continental flow...


Steve - Folkestone, Kent

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Gusty
04 December 2018 06:56:22

A good old fashioned SW England blizzard here. 216


Steve - Folkestone, Kent

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Brian Gaze
04 December 2018 06:57:20

ECM easterly inbound at 192 hours.

A distinct lack of cold uppers to make things exciting with 850's of -6 to -7c from the initial easterly 

Any snowfall from this will be a caused by a front pushing up from the SW ahead of a continental flow...

Originally Posted by: Gusty 

GFSP 00z less keen.

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/gfsp.aspx?run=00&charthour=216&chartname=mslp850&chartregion=na&charttag=MSLP%20850hPa%20C

ECM a tad colder by 216.


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

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nsrobins
04 December 2018 06:59:44
I agree that parameters are looking like being the wrong side of marginal for snow (although it is a week away so changes likely) - but sub zero dps in an Easterly flow will make it feel ‘seasonal’ at least. It’s a decent effort for early Dec and quite pleasing in a way to render some Dec forecasts of mild unsettled weather off the mark.
Neil

Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)

Stormchaser, Member TORRO

Gusty
04 December 2018 07:06:55

I agree that parameters are looking like being the wrong side of marginal for snow (although it is a week away so changes likely) - but sub zero dps in an Easterly flow will make it feel ‘seasonal’ at least. It’s a decent effort for early Dec and quite pleasing in a way to render some Dec forecasts of mild unsettled weather off the mark.

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 

Its very easy to get lured into the trap of dreaming about snowy Decembers. Historically (in recent terms) they are rare. Warmer seas, warmer lands, lag times and all that.

What is encouraging (for the longer term) is the ability to get a High Pressure to reside over Scandinavia in December following a November appearance.


Steve - Folkestone, Kent

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Arcus
04 December 2018 07:13:27
A shift toward to Scandi High scenario in the GEFS, with ECM maintaining it's support. ICON and GEM not keen on the outcome however. UKMO looks similar to ECM out to 144.
Ben,

Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire

30m asl

Ally Pally Snowman
04 December 2018 07:19:50

Yes the lack of  cold uppers is a shame although ECM looks just about cold enough to me. Goes to show just how exceptional Nov/Dec 2010 was a real once in a 100 year event.


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
JACKO4EVER
04 December 2018 07:24:08
More interest this morning though it’s all very marginal stuff. Mind you, if this was pre- 2010 then this place would be in meltdown
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
04 December 2018 07:31:46

 

Its very easy to get lured into the trap of dreaming about snowy Decembers. Historically (in recent terms) they are rare. Warmer seas, warmer lands, lag times and all that.

What is encouraging (for the longer term) is the ability to get a High Pressure to reside over Scandinavia in December following a November appearance.

Originally Posted by: Gusty 

The best hope for a properly snowy winter from where we are now is that the pattern of a blocking HP over Scandi will persist, though looking at the charts, that HP still looks a bit fragile to me.

For now, even if we get cold easterlies, they won't be spectacularly cold as the whole of Europe, way across to the east, has above average temps for some time to come http://www.wxmaps.org/pix/temp4 


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Chichester 12m asl

roadrunnerajn
04 December 2018 07:59:42
Meanwhile in the short term..... Friday for the central lowlands of Scotland looks interesting. The synoptic from the Meto shows a depression of 963mb over the NW highlands with quite a pressure gradient. This could produce wind gusts of over 80mph.
Germoe, part of the breakaway Celtic Republic. 80m asl
Gooner
04 December 2018 08:06:09

More interest this morning though it’s all very marginal stuff. Mind you, if this was pre- 2010 then this place would be in meltdown

Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 

 

I agree mate we were spoilt that year .

 

Good runs this morning IMO 


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Banbury

North Oxfordshire

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Ally Pally Snowman
04 December 2018 08:33:45

 

Another day another ECM Op cold outlier really need the ensembles to go colder. Judging by the Mean many show a lovely Scandi high but poor 850s 

 

 

 

 

 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
ballamar
04 December 2018 08:55:43

 

Another day another ECM Op cold outlier really need the ensembles to go colder. Judging by the Mean many show a lovely Scandi high but poor 850s 

 

 

 

 

 

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

 

get a repeating pattern and the cold will come

Ally Pally Snowman
04 December 2018 09:01:05

It does seem to be repeating which is a very good sign.

 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Gavin D
04 December 2018 09:09:37

The GFS mean shows a trend to something milder as we move closer to Christmas after a potential cold blip next week

GFS.thumb.png.0546595d51fcdb4fcaf0789b6017803e.png

The ECM mean still isn't backing the op on the 850's yet with this potential really cold air

graphe_ens3.thumb.png.d8bf3fca732a1a110f4abfe7a10e5a35.png

Saint Snow
04 December 2018 10:09:26

Its very easy to get lured into the trap of dreaming about snowy Decembers. Historically (in recent terms) they are rare. 

Originally Posted by: Gusty 

 

You say that but, as I've explained previously, that isn't the case - at least not for this region/area.

In the 22 Decembers from 1996 we've had:

Pre-xmas snowfall staying on ground until after Xmas Day: 2009, 2010

Snow falling & sticking on Xmas Day: 1996, 2004

Snow falling & sticking between Xmas Day and New Year's Eve: 2000, 2001, 2014

Snow falling and providing a brief (<1day) cover: 2011

A hit rate of 8 Decembers out of 22 (36%) isn't bad IMO


Martin

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Solar Cycles
04 December 2018 11:04:03
Still quite a bit of flip flopping on where heights will set up, I think the form horse remains for the U.K. to remain under its influence for a few days at least before milder Atlantic weather tries to push in. Events up in the stratosphere continue to gather more than a passing glance for later in the month, though we’ve been led up the garden path with these sort of things many times before so until we see this move into the reliable then I’ll remain sceptical.
ballamar
04 December 2018 11:17:05

Still quite a bit of flip flopping on where heights will set up, I think the form horse remains for the U.K. to remain under its influence for a few days at least before milder Atlantic weather tries to push in. Events up in the stratosphere continue to gather more than a passing glance for later in the month, though we’ve been led up the garden path with these sort of things many times before so until we see this move into the reliable then I’ll remain sceptical.

Originally Posted by: Solar Cycles 

 

They key is the face we have high pressure around and not to the south of the UK - if it sets up over us it will be cold to the north cold with chance of very cold. At this time of year it is perfect in my eyes. With potential further down the line this is a bonus

Solar Cycles
04 December 2018 11:30:33

 

 

They key is the face we have high pressure around and not to the south of the UK - if it sets up over us it will be cold to the north cold with chance of very cold. At this time of year it is perfect in my eyes. With potential further down the line this is a bonus

Originally Posted by: ballamar 

Don't get me wrong I’m with you on this but I remain sceptical on the modelling of the stratosphere at these sort of timescales.

Russwirral
04 December 2018 11:32:37
If that scandi high does happen, so long as a decent cold shot is introduced, it will have a fair shot at sticking around way longer than the charts are given it credit for.

Currently it looks fairly innocuous at ground level, with average temps, maybe slightly colder here or there. ie no beast.

However should cold become established, i think it may be rather hard to budge, and fronts may begin to dive underneath it. Reason im saying this with no actual basis is, GFS and indeed any charts for that matter struggle with this, as it really depends what happens on the few days leading up to it being hit by an atlantic front.

We just need the cold air to seep over to scandinavia and North germany. Clear cold nights. We are approaching the shortest day of the year, so the potential for this increases, with lack of available heat from the sun.


Solar Cycles
04 December 2018 11:36:31

If that scandi high does happen, so long as a decent cold shot is introduced, it will have a fair shot at sticking around way longer than the charts are given it credit for.

Currently it looks fairly innocuous at ground level, with average temps, maybe slightly colder here or there. ie no beast.

However should cold become established, i think it may be rather hard to budge, and fronts may begin to dive underneath it. Reason im saying this with no actual basis is, GFS and indeed any charts for that matter struggle with this, as it really depends what happens on the few days leading up to it being hit by an atlantic front.

We just need the cold air to seep over to scandinavia and North germany. Clear cold nights. We are approaching the shortest day of the year, so the potential for this increases, with lack of available heat from the sun.

Originally Posted by: Russwirral 

Could we’ll be the case Russ, we really need those heights to be centred favourably for fronts  to slide underneath or at least take a NW/SE trajectory.

Rob K
04 December 2018 11:52:11

Just pinched this from t'other side. Looks all right.

 


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl

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ballamar
04 December 2018 11:53:19

Don't get me wrong I’m with you on this but I remain sceptical on the modelling of the stratosphere at these sort of timescales.

Originally Posted by: Solar Cycles 

 

Nice to be looking at potential rather than a raging strong PV in December, let’s hope it comes to fruition 

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