The Weather Outlook

Remove ads from site

Chunky Pea
16 December 2021 11:46:54

Biggest area of contention for the Christmas period (within at the EC 'spread') is to the west of Ireland. 

That contentious trough is as likely to go the way of the GFS (more N) as the ECM (more south) or somewhere in-between in the run up to and over the Christmas period.  This uncertainty is pretty typical at this range though but nail biting all the same. 

 

 


Patrick,

East Galway, Ireland.

Jeff
  • Jeff
  • Advanced Member
16 December 2021 11:48:27

The divergence between GFS and ECM takes place around t+138 (GFS) / t+144 ECM.

ECM has the UK high migrate northwards to join a 'true' high over Greenland, with a Siberian high then ridging to join up as well, creating a strong block to our north

At 138, GFS also moves the UK high northwards, but also begins to erode the warm uppers over Greenland from the west, and by 156, they're gone (just a nominal surface high remains). As such, the high is 'unanchored' and gets drifted eastwards, before sinking.

That's my very layman's take, anyway.

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 

 

For those looking for interesting trends (in other words, signs of hope to cling on to), look at the SLP averages. Not the absolutes as these are of little point on their own, but the trends in the last three runs. Somewhat hidden away in the last three runs is a trend/signal for a pressure rise Iceland/Greenalnd at t240 and a sinking southwards/elongating of the mid Atlantic low

1800 run from last night

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/en/topkarten.php?map=1&model=gfs&var=1&run=18&time=240&lid=AVG&h=0&mv=0&tr=24#mapref

0000 run

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/en/topkarten.php?map=1&model=gfs&var=1&run=0&time=240&lid=AVG&h=0&mv=0&tr=24#mapref

0600 run
https://www.wetterzentrale.de/en/topkarten.php?map=1&model=gfs&var=1&run=6&time=240&lid=AVG&h=0&mv=0&tr=24#mapref

 


On the East/West Sussex Border

70m ASL

nsrobins
16 December 2021 12:21:16

To be fair the short GEFS have trended colder when compared to the previous 2 runs:

https://www.meteociel.fr/cartes_obs/gens_display.php?x=&y=&run=6&ville=Londres&lat=51.5085&lon=-0.12574&runpara=0&ext=0&type=0

You can toggle between the current set and the previous 3 sets on this link.

And with reference to Mogreps - it wobbles around as much as any other model so don't put too much faith in it.


Neil

Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)

Stormchaser, Member TORRO

Gandalf The White
16 December 2021 12:25:54

 

 I still don't know why you waste your time with CFS.

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

Misplaced his tea leaves?


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



Gusty
16 December 2021 12:33:16

6z GEFS just about show a colder cluster holding dominance.

I'm still not entirely comfortable with any of this though. 

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/en/show_diagrams.php?geoid=49909&model=gfs&var=5&run=6&lid=ENS&bw=1

 


Steve - Folkestone, Kent

Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue

https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 

Join Kent Weather on Facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/stevewall69/ 



overland
16 December 2021 12:51:51

 

 

"if you always expect disappointment then you can never be disappointed"

 

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 

 

That's true, but following that mantra takes away a lot of the pleasure on the rare occasion when something decent actually verifies! 

I'm still clinging to the fact that the BBC automated  has a sleet symbol for Christmas Eve for here!


Mumbles, Swansea. 80m asl
Gavin P
16 December 2021 13:01:08

 

2005 was unforgettable. 

The models latched on to the easterly on the 18th December for onset on Boxing Day evening.

They held firm for a few days but on the 12z's on the 23rd (at T+72) there were major wobbles from virtually all the models with a sinker to Biscay that suddenly turned a bitter easterly into a light WNW'ly. The GFS 18z came back around slightly and by the 0z's on 24th December it was game on.

Elation to deflation back to elation in 15 hours.

Dec 26-30th ended up being a reasonable event locally with 15-20cm widely, less so for many places locally though with meagre falls of circa 5cm. It was just a shame it arrived 24 hours too late.

Originally Posted by: Gusty 

Yeah that was an exciting few days lol! 


Rural West Northants 120m asl

Short, medium and long range weather forecast videos @ https://www.youtube.com/user/GavsWeatherVids

tallyho_83
16 December 2021 13:01:21

6z GEFS just about show a colder cluster holding dominance.

I'm still not entirely comfortable with any of this though. 

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/en/show_diagrams.php?geoid=49909&model=gfs&var=5&run=6&lid=ENS&bw=1

 

Originally Posted by: Gusty 

 

Yes exactly - there is a cold cluster now appearing around the 24th and 25th? - ENS 850 mean is -4.1c in the 06z run compared with -1.0c on 24th in the 00z ENS run. in the 06z run the Operational is yet again the mildest option or a liar (out-lier). Also precipitation spikes have  reduced or being are being further delayed since this mornings 00z ENS run.

Will the cold cluster of uppers intensify in the 12z and follow the ECM or GEM? - We shall see...!?

To compare - here with the latest 06z ENS run:

This mornings 00z run - Look at precipitation spikes: - Far more and there was no cold cluster around 24th/25th. 


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

---------------------------------------

Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

Brian Gaze
16 December 2021 13:02:41

MOGREPS should be used as a 36 member time stepped ensemble (recommended by the UK Met). However, here is the latest 6z update.

(Snow depths here https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/mogreps.aspx?run=latest&pschartname=snow_depth&pscharthour=198)


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 

"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan

Rob K
16 December 2021 13:02:52

6z GEFS just about show a colder cluster holding dominance.

I'm still not entirely comfortable with any of this though. 

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/en/show_diagrams.php?geoid=49909&model=gfs&var=5&run=6&lid=ENS&bw=1

 

Originally Posted by: Gusty 

Compared to the 18Z yesterday it is a big swing to the mild end. First letdown of the winter, no doubt the first of many in the 2021-22 rollercoaster 


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl

"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

Rob K
16 December 2021 13:08:22

March is looking pretty tasty on the CFS 

 

2112 hours is starting to get towards the edge of the reliable time frame though.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl

"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

tallyho_83
16 December 2021 13:12:43

MOGREPS should be used as a 36 member time stepped ensemble (recommended by the UK Met). However, here is the latest 6z update.

(Snow depths here https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/mogreps.aspx?run=latest&pschartname=snow_depth&pscharthour=198)

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

Quite a lot of scatter! South could either see maxes of +1 or 2c or it could swing mild and we could see maxes of +11 or +12c. Still all to play for and been an interesting time for model watching, but this roller coaster - when will it end and we see some certainty?

Rob - yes milder unfortunately however the GFS 06z Operational is a milder outlier as has often been the case, but will see if GEM and ECM follow suite later so all eyes on the 12z run.

 


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

---------------------------------------

Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

White Meadows
16 December 2021 13:18:42

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/en/show_diagrams.php?model=gfs&lid=ENS&var=2&bw=1&geoid=49069

not often you see such wide scatter as these 

tallyho_83
16 December 2021 13:28:42

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/en/show_diagrams.php?model=gfs&lid=ENS&var=2&bw=1&geoid=49069

not often you see such wide scatter as these 

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 

Yes true despite the Op being a mild outlier, however my attention is now focused on this cold cluster of ENS between the 23rd and 26th - As this wasn't showing in the 00z ENS which you can see here:

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/en/show_diagrams.php?geoid=49069&model=gfs&var=2&run=00&lid=ENS&bw=1

Now compare with above the 06z ENS - you posted will see the cold cluster appearing around 23rd -26th.

So will this cold cluster of uppers intensify or was it a one off...? we shall see?

Where is Doc and Marcus these days?


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

---------------------------------------

Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

Gandalf The White
16 December 2021 13:37:16

MOGREPS should be used as a 36 member time stepped ensemble (recommended by the UK Met). However, here is the latest 6z update.

(Snow depths here https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/mogreps.aspx?run=latest&pschartname=snow_depth&pscharthour=198)

 

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

Interesting - and a confirmation of the general picture of milder air encroaching from the south or south-west v the block keeping it further south.

Of course, a mere 300-400 miles when we’re still over a week away is very little in terms of the air masses and energy in play.

 


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



tallyho_83
16 December 2021 13:41:27

Just looking at the 00z ECM from N.Hemisphere view - this looks quite an impressive block and indicative of a -NAO and AO:

Those Atlantic systems just stall and disintegrate. 


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

---------------------------------------

Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

Jeff
  • Jeff
  • Advanced Member
16 December 2021 15:56:43

ICON first of the 1200 out of the blocks to t168. An improvement for those looking for seasonal cheer on previous recent ICON runs, but not definitive. Significant deep cold building to the NE on this one


On the East/West Sussex Border

70m ASL

nsrobins
16 December 2021 15:58:33

ICON first of the 12Zs out the traps and a nod to ECM with the Atlantic energy pitting across east rather than nudging North and squeezing the high away. This could usher in an easterly flow post 23rd Dec.

 


Neil

Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)

Stormchaser, Member TORRO

Jeff
  • Jeff
  • Advanced Member
16 December 2021 16:01:08

ICON first of the 12Zs out the traps and a nod to ECM with the Atlantic energy pitting across east rather than nudging North and squeezing the high away. This could usher in an easterly flow post 23rd Dec.

 

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 

 

Like minds 


On the East/West Sussex Border

70m ASL

squish
16 December 2021 16:10:54
https://www.meteociel.com/ukmo/runs/2021121612/UN144-21.GIF?16-17 

Not a bad pre Christmas chart from UKMO


D.E.W on Dartmoor. 300m asl
squish
16 December 2021 16:14:55
ballamar
16 December 2021 16:16:58
Much better OP run from GFS
nsrobins
16 December 2021 16:17:13

You can see from relatively early in this particular GFS OP that heights are more stout towards Greenland, preventing the Atlantic energy from getting too far North and instead pushing ESE towards Iberia. Very small differences that make a huge difference down the road for our neck of the woods.


Neil

Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)

Stormchaser, Member TORRO

ballamar
16 December 2021 16:21:13
Think the site traffic might increase on the back of this run undercutting low into cold a couple of days before Xmas
jhall
16 December 2021 16:24:14

Snow across much of southern England by 6pm on the 23rd, according to T+174 on the GFS OP.


Cranleigh, Surrey

Remove ads from site