I think people have to accept that phrases like this and 'hairdryer' are only reflective of the synoptics that have largely dominated in recent years.

no-one has to accept it, this thread is to say what gets on your nerves

'Shropshire' added to mine

I'm not quite sure why ? We have to someway define the phenomenon of the last 30 years.

Yes, one person on the internet has forever tainted the county of Shropshire for me. I don't want to go there only to discover that everyone is self-aggrandising and annoying.

The problem with the Moden Winter theory is that the winter's between 2009 and 2013 proved it wrong. Significant cold and snow is still possible for all of the UK even in these warming times. December 2010 was 0.1c away from being the coldest CET December for 350 years that alone discredits the theory. 

I gave my reason further up the thread - we've had every kind of winter in the last 15 years so a 'modern winter' could be anything from deep snow, to mild and settled, wet and windy...

His bare-faced lies still end up dominating the discussion in every thread as a consequence.

I think this is disrespectful and not truthful. If any of the below are lies then please point them out -

• since 1987/88 the warmest 30 year winter period ever recorded
• 21 years since the last mid-winter easterly
• Incidences of high latitude blocking greatly reduced in the last 30 years
• High CET/rainfall records broken or nearly broken continually
• Around half of the last 30 winters containing 6 weeks or more of continuous zonality
• Much higher incidence of cold/snow in Greece and Turkey than recorded previously in the 20th Century

As I say you are entitled to your opinion but I believe drilling in to people time and again  is what upsets folk here. I know from past personal experience not to continually troll threads with my thoughts as it winds people up.......once is enough.

We know what you think.

Many of us disagree.

You do not need to keep posting it at every opportunity simply for effect.

It is annoying, you know that, and therefore to keep doing it can lead most of us to only one conclusion....

Archaic summer.

There hasn’t been any phenomenon in the last 30 years The winters have been the same over the past 30 years as between 1898 and 1939 plus 1971 to 1976 i.e. almost two-thirds of the past 120 years.

It was the 80s winters that were atypical for this climate, especially in the south where the majority of winters over the past century have had no meaningful snow. Even during the colder era of the 50s and 60s most winters in the south had less snow than we typically get up here in a mild winter.

So that's marmalade tomorrow rather than jam? 

The MetO have talked about the Nina switch in their Seasonal, and whilst a factor it joins many of its siblings in the stalls for the runners and riders in the Winter stakes. This time last year we were watching Hammond's Front Loaded Winter, PV Gone To Pieces forecast, lest we forget...

1. What about spells of record warmth we have witnessed during the other seasons of the year since the late 1980's? Someone mentioned in another thread recently that more warm CET records have been broken in spring, summer and autumn months in the past 30 years than have been broken in winter months.
2. What does that prove? It is less than a decade ago since we last had a spell of severe and long-lasting winter cold which came about from northern blocking. I don't see the significance of the fact that those two spells didn't come about from an easterly spell.
3. They may have reduced, but HLB can still happen in the winter, as 2009/10, December 2010 and, to as lesser extent, early 2013 all proved. The fact that such instances have been rarer in the past 30 years does not mean that it cannot happen in the so-called modern winter.

Indeed. In fact the "problem" with the start of last winter was that the blocking was actually too high a latitude meaning that we didn't have the deep cold in Europe to tap into.

It's irrational I know, but it really gets on my nerves!

One particularly annoying poster over on the other side used to do it and it's now slowly spreading...😂

There’s also the easterly in February 2008 and again a snowy spell in April 2008 even down south.

what about those hey? Hey?

I'd like to emphasize that I certainly did mean to be disrespectful to Shropshire, and that the events of 2009/10 and 2010/11 indeed showed him to be a deluded loon. Whether the other 28 recent winters were blowtorches or hairdryers is completely irrelevant. They're just noise. As long as this happens - twice! - there is no fundamental change towards mildness in winter. None. 

Snow and low temperatures, December 2010

From late November to Boxing Day 2010 the UK experienced two spells of severe winter weather with very low temperatures and significant snowfalls.

The first of these spells lasted for two weeks from Thursday 25 November to Thursday 9 December and saw persistent easterly or north-easterly winds bringing bitterly cold air from northern Europe and Siberia, accompanied by snow. Eastern Scotland and north-east England saw the most persistent and heaviest snow, which accumulated to depths of 50 cm or more across the higher ground by the end of the spell. However, lower lying areas were also affected and the snow increasingly spread to other parts of the UK, so that by early December many areas of the UK were under lying snow. Temperatures struggled to rise above freezing during the day and there were very severe frosts at night. Temperatures widely fell below -10 °C on several nights and on occasion below -20 °C in northern Scotland.

This spell of snow and freezing temperatures occurred unusually early in the winter, with the snowfalls judged as the most significant and widespread in late November and early December since late November 1965.

The period from 9 to 15 December saw milder and quieter conditions with a gradual thaw of lying snow. However, a second spell of severe weather began on Thursday 16 December as very cold Arctic air pushed down across the UK from the north. Snow showers affected the north and west on Friday 17 December, while there was heavier snow across southern England and Wales on Saturday 18 December. Further heavy snow affected south-west England on Monday 20 December. The UK remained under bitterly cold Arctic air until Boxing Day, with day time temperatures again failing to rise above freezing and very severe frosts. While there was little further snowfall, lying snow remained until 26 to 27 December.

The second spell of snow and freezing temperatures has been judged the most significant such spell in December since 1981, although late December 2009 to mid-January 2010 (the previous winter) were also broadly comparable to both these spells.

More information about the

• Snow and low temperatures - December 2009 to January 2010
• The big freeze — Nov-Dec 2010

Overall, the prolonged freezing conditions resulted in an exceptionally cold December across the UK: the coldest December in the last 100 years and the coldest across central England since 1890. Indeed, this was the coldest month in the UK since February 1986, and in Northern Ireland, the coldest individual month of the last 100 years. Despite a mild first half, the UK also experienced the coldest November since 1993 as a result of the very cold last few days.

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/interesting/dec2010

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twocommunity/default.aspx?g=posts&t=15841

While I would say the change occured in the late 90s, rather than the late 80s, something has changed. As I've said again and again, the death of the midwinter easterly is something we've not seen since at least 1900 - there has always been at least one instance per decade, but since 1997, zip.

You'd best hope for a midwinter easterly or two, as until we get one the "something's changed" posts will continue to pop up.