The Weather Outlook

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DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
08 March 2025 13:10:44

Notable differences between ECM ENS and GEFS this morning.

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

It's only the GFS temp profile for London and points south of it which has shortened the cold spell dramatically; further north the GFS profile still looks much like the ECM for London.


War is God's way of teaching Americans geography - Ambrose Bierce

Chichester 12m asl

Hungry Tiger
08 March 2025 19:25:29

Notable differences between ECM ENS and GEFS this morning.

UserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

I've heard there'll be a considerable warm up after this chilly coming week.    🙂 


Gavin S. FRmetS.

TWO Moderator.

Contact the TWO team - [email protected]

South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.



Jiries
08 March 2025 19:59:32

I've heard there'll be a considerable warm up after this chilly coming week.    🙂 

Originally Posted by: Hungry Tiger 

Still looking more ☀️ next week but frosty nights and high single digits. Looking very dry as well with little or no rain and sun hours likely to be well above average for a change. Just hope it continue sunny habits for 2025.   Far better start to Spring than last 2 Springs.

DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
09 March 2025 08:47:54
WX temp charts show currently below norm for Spain and well above for Ukraine, with rest of Europe near norm. In absolute terms, this means that cold/freezing weather is present in a band across N Europe, but in week two this retreats northwards and become less cold (though not so much of a retreat as shown yesterday). Wet in Spain and the W Mediterranean both weeks, more approaching Ireland from the W in week 2.

GFS Op 00z; LP near Biscay persists to Sun 16th, with a trough linking to Lp Scandinavia and HP near Iceland. Net result is NE-lies fro Britain, rather cold by midweek. The HP then drifts SE-wards to Belarus and the winds change round to the SE, lasting to Fri 21st; still quite cold as the air imported in the previous week takes time to disperse, and the winds strengthen as LP approaches Ireland for a time. Then HP moves up from the SW with something much warmer and by Tue 25th is established in the N Sea.

ECM: similar to GFS but LP is closer to Ireland, on Wed 16th 970mb off Galway

GEM; initially similar to GFS but the HP keeps on moving SE-wards and is followed Thu 18th by LP from the NW 975mb Cape Wrath with trough covering Britain.

GEFS; Temps drop generally to 5 or 6C below norm around Tue 11th, mean recovering to norm in 3 or 4 days in the far S, taking a week or so further N; the mean supported by ens agreement until it gets back to norm after which a spread develops. Rain likely in the SW at any time; in the W from about Wed 16th; otherwise not much pptn anywhere, though present in some runs in small amounts later on. Snow row figures high for E Scotland and NE England around Wed 12th but combined with small amounts of pptn, probably only a dusting from showers.

I shall be away this week, not taking the laptop (and it's too much trouble to do this review on a smart phone) so expect the next review Sat 15th. Please feel free to increase your posts to fill the gap!


War is God's way of teaching Americans geography - Ambrose Bierce

Chichester 12m asl

Gandalf The White
09 March 2025 13:39:32

WX temp charts show currently below norm for Spain and well above for Ukraine, with rest of Europe near norm. In absolute terms, this means that cold/freezing weather is present in a band across N Europe, but in week two this retreats northwards and become less cold (though not so much of a retreat as shown yesterday). Wet in Spain and the W Mediterranean both weeks, more approaching Ireland from the W in week 2.

GFS Op 00z; LP near Biscay persists to Sun 16th, with a trough linking to Lp Scandinavia and HP near Iceland. Net result is NE-lies fro Britain, rather cold by midweek. The HP then drifts SE-wards to Belarus and the winds change round to the SE, lasting to Fri 21st; still quite cold as the air imported in the previous week takes time to disperse, and the winds strengthen as LP approaches Ireland for a time. Then HP moves up from the SW with something much warmer and by Tue 25th is established in the N Sea.

ECM: similar to GFS but LP is closer to Ireland, on Wed 16th 970mb off Galway

GEM; initially similar to GFS but the HP keeps on moving SE-wards and is followed Thu 18th by LP from the NW 975mb Cape Wrath with trough covering Britain.

GEFS; Temps drop generally to 5 or 6C below norm around Tue 11th, mean recovering to norm in 3 or 4 days in the far S, taking a week or so further N; the mean supported by ens agreement until it gets back to norm after which a spread develops. Rain likely in the SW at any time; in the W from about Wed 16th; otherwise not much pptn anywhere, though present in some runs in small amounts later on. Snow row figures high for E Scotland and NE England around Wed 12th but combined with small amounts of pptn, probably only a dusting from showers.

I shall be away this week, not taking the laptop (and it's too much trouble to do this review on a smart phone) so expect the next review Sat 15th. Please feel free to increase your posts to fill the gap!

Originally Posted by: DEW 

Thank you, David. Have a good break.


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



Saint Snow
09 March 2025 13:43:22
Enjoy your break (hope it's not in Western Med!)

Martin

Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)

A TWO addict since 14/12/01

"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."

Aneurin Bevan

DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
09 March 2025 17:08:24

Enjoy your break (hope it's not in Western Med!)

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 

No - I've got second prize - snow showers in Northumberland😟


War is God's way of teaching Americans geography - Ambrose Bierce

Chichester 12m asl

Saint Snow
09 March 2025 19:28:06

No - I've got second prize - snow showers in Northumberland😟

Originally Posted by: DEW 

Ah. At least your hopes and expectations weren't raised then dashed!

We stayed in Northumberland one time in March, up near Wooler. Stunningly beautiful area. What does stay with me is just how big Northumberland is. Got to Newcastle and presumed I was more or less there. Another hour it took! 

I can get to the Lakes from my home in an hour!


Martin

Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)

A TWO addict since 14/12/01

"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."

Aneurin Bevan

fairweather
10 March 2025 11:19:21
Is there a climatic reason why the long term mean for 850 hPa's is slightly lower at the end of March than at the start? You would have thought with the consistency of the sun always becoming higher in the sky it would have been at least a couple of degrees higher. 
S.Essex, 42m ASL
Retron
10 March 2025 11:25:22

Is there a climatic reason why the long term mean for 850 hPa's is slightly lower at the end of March than at the start? You would have thought with the consistency of the sun always becoming higher in the sky it would have been at least a couple of degrees higher. 

Originally Posted by: fairweather 

I'd imagine a combination of SSTs being around as low as they get (they tend to bottom out in early March), so less modification, and a reduction in Atlantic westerlies as zonal winds decrease ahead of the final warming ("in like a lion, out like a lamb"), meaning less of an Atlantic influence.

Remember even at the end of March the nights are still quite long, and the sun low in the sky at dawn and dusk doesn't add much warmth.

(I think Four posted something a few years ago about the angle of the sun required for a net input of heat, I can't remember the exact height though!)


Leysdown, north Kent
Brian Gaze
10 March 2025 11:28:12
I'm still hopeful of seeing a few flakes of snow this week. ECM ENS gives me a 30% max chance at any one time. I wouldn't totally rule out transient accumulations in some lowland locations in southern Britain if the snow falls at the right time.

UserPostedImage


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan

Taylor1740
10 March 2025 14:51:22
Cold snap looking brief and not all that cold. After that it's looking like turning very warm again for late March. Therefore I think another warm month overall is looking likely now.
NW Leeds - 150m amsl
Jiries
10 March 2025 17:14:17

Cold snap looking brief and not all that cold. After that it's looking like turning very warm again for late March. Therefore I think another warm month overall is looking likely now.

Originally Posted by: Taylor1740 

Seem a good month and not very wet on the ensembles but most noticable is the sun hours likley to exceed this month even this week cold spell have lot of sun as it from the Arctic source.  Vast improvement from recent March of 2023/24.

tallyho_83
11 March 2025 21:43:12
I can't find the media thread

https://news.sky.com/story/why-the-weather-has-turned-cold-again-and-could-stay-that-way-through-march-13326203?fbclid=IwY2xjawI9jI1leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHRHBnNjuiFodSczFooaTxPHWrk_V1lfGnWIdTi8iWYZY7rL1yOVF-jHOgg_aem_d6rjTOnRgww_G0Or-LPFiw 

Worth a read. It's odd how they say the SSW has an 80% chance of occurring by Mid March when it's already happened and zonal winds are in reverse. Let me know on thoughts re this article?


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

---------------------------------------

Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

Retron
12 March 2025 04:02:00

Worth a read. It's odd how they say the SSW has an 80% chance of occurring by Mid March when it's already happened and zonal winds are in reverse. Let me know on thoughts re this article?

Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 

It's odd all round, considering that the ECM modelling for the past week shows it to be the final warming, not an SSW!


Leysdown, north Kent
Rob K
12 March 2025 12:38:28

Cold snap looking brief and not all that cold. After that it's looking like turning very warm again for late March. Therefore I think another warm month overall is looking likely now.

Originally Posted by: Taylor1740 

It was, but this morning it looks rather unsettled and not too warm.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl

"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

David M Porter
12 March 2025 22:05:29

Cold snap looking brief and not all that cold. After that it's looking like turning very warm again for late March. Therefore I think another warm month overall is looking likely now.

Originally Posted by: Taylor1740 

Hmmm, a big call to make at this stage. The models seem to be suggesting it will turn more unsettled again as we go through next week but I'm not seeing anything in them right now which suggest any unusual warmth for later in March.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"A body of men holding themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody." – Thomas Paine

doctormog
12 March 2025 22:12:20

Hmmm, a big call to make at this stage. The models seem to be suggesting it will turn more unsettled again as we go through next week but I'm not seeing anything in them right now which suggest any unusual warmth for later in March.

Originally Posted by: David M Porter 

Yes, I thought that was a strange comment to make at the time as it wasn’t supported by much of the model output (and still is not). The outlook looks cool in coming days rising to around average in 5 or 6 days. The end of the month coukd still turn out to be warm but there’s not much of a signal for that currently.


domma
13 March 2025 05:56:47
I was watching the Met Office deep dive and it was suggested that an SSW expected/might occur towards the back end of March. So perhaps Winter might have a sting in its tail. 
Brian Gaze
14 March 2025 13:17:44

Yes, I thought that was a strange comment to make at the time as it wasn’t supported by much of the model output (and still is not). The outlook looks cool in coming days rising to around average in 5 or 6 days. The end of the month coukd still turn out to be warm but there’s not much of a signal for that currently.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 

The SSW has taken place. They could have been talking about its possible impact.


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 

"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan

Brian Gaze
14 March 2025 14:25:16
Ok, park that side bar and stay on topic. I'll remove some posts to help.
Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 

"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan

Gandalf The White
14 March 2025 14:27:27

The SSW has taken place. They could have been talking about its possible impact.

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

The ECM ensemble run for 10hPa winds suggests a triple dip in the reversal

https://charts.ecmwf.int/products/extended-zonal-mean-zonal-wind?area=nh&base_time= [url=tel:202503130000]202503130000[/url]

The reversal gets so strong by month end that it must be close to unprecedented, given where the forecast is v the 90th percentile.


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



Chunky Pea
14 March 2025 16:07:42
April is, on average, the most 'northerly' month of the year, and more especially at the beginning and end of the month. Easterly winds peak in frequency (again, over a long term average) during mid May. So surely, any affect SSW would have at this late stage would be indistinguishable from climatological norms anyhow? 
Patrick,

East Galway, Ireland.

Rob K
14 March 2025 16:23:08
Looking very unsettled in a week to 10 days time unfortunately, on all models.
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl

"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

Ally Pally Snowman
14 March 2025 17:06:45

Looking very unsettled in a week to 10 days time unfortunately, on all models.

Originally Posted by: Rob K 

Models have been doing this a lot recently though,  very unsettled in the 10 to 15 day period but reality is much more settled. 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.

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