The Weather Outlook

Remove ads from site

DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
31 January 2025 08:32:27
WX temp charts not updating

GFS Op 00z: HP moving up from the SW and after a couple of false starts (troughs embedded in SW-lies affecting mainly W districts Sun 2nd and Tue 4th) is well established 1045mb N England Thu 6th. It's mobile and soon moves on to the Baltic where it settles until Tue 11th with not-very-cold SE-lies for Britain. After the 11th it extends a broad ridge W-wards which covers Britain but all swept away in the circulation of LP 960mb situated near Iceland.

ECM: similar to GFS but manages to bring the cold pool which has been lurking on the Continent to Britain on Mon 10th.

GEM: like the above but various small cold pools are floating around, Fri 7th assisted by small LP 995mb off Biscay and Mon 10th as ECM but mostly affecting eastern districts.

GEFS : rain now for the SE, and matching GFS, small amounts Sun 2nd N England and Tue 4th NW Scotland. Op  then dry throughout and control mostly so,  but an increasing number of other ens members have rain from Sun 9th onwards with typically 1/3 chances of snow widely. Temps mild at first, mean back to norm or a little below from Tue 4th (the main cluster of ens members is below norm by 2 or 3 C but the mean is sustained by a few very mild outliers.)


War is God's way of teaching Americans geography - Ambrose Bierce

Chichester 12m asl

Hippydave
31 January 2025 08:34:51
A case of nearly but not quite on today's op runs, with the ens generally backing the theme that the UK will end up somewhere in the middle between the atlantic and strong HP to the east. Both ECM and GFS ops do bring cold uppers in (GFS at various points) but it's in a HP set up and I suspect it'd be in the cold, dull and raw category for a fair bit of the time. (There's a few areas of light precip shown by the GFS so might be a few snizzle/light snow showers for some if that floats your boat).

I guess it's the kind of pattern that a tweak in atlantic energy/angle could make it more widely cold or more atlantic flavoured with any cold being kept over Scandinavia. Currently though as Ally mentions, cool and fairly bland looks favoured once the HP does establish post day 5 or so. 

In some ways I'm rooting for the bland HP nothingness to last a fair chunk of the month. Not because it'll be particularly enjoyable weather but because the MetO three monther had a strong signal for milder than normal, wetter than normal and windier than normal and if month one is the opposite I'll find it amusing. (Obviously March/April could then be uber unsettled and compensate but still). 


Home: Tunbridge Wells

Work: Tonbridge

The Beast from the East
31 January 2025 10:00:43

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/en/topkarten.php?map=1&model=gfs&var=1&run=6&time=54&lid=OP&h=0&mv=0&tr=6#mapref

So much potential….

Originally Posted by: ballamar 

If the block stays in place and retrogresses towards Greenland, then of course we could be in business. But that is probably another 2 weeks away


Purley, Surrey, 70m ASL

"We have some alternative facts for you"

Kelly-Ann Conway - former special adviser to the President

Saint Snow
31 January 2025 10:10:17

If the block stays in place and retrogresses towards Greenland, then of course we could be in business. But that is probably another 2 weeks away

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 

The problem is, that big chunk of Vortex seems to have dug in over Greenland. It doesn't look like moving anywhere.

This may change, but blocks with energy going over the top always seem to topple under the pressure ('scuse the pun)


Martin

Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)

A TWO addict since 14/12/01

"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."

Aneurin Bevan

nsrobins
31 January 2025 10:57:51
Although it looks likely we might get a few ‘tugs’ from an easterly quadrant over the next few weeks. It’s all about whether the tug turns into a pull and then we might be in business. 

Was ever the situation (apparently) 😉😂


Neil

Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)

Stormchaser, Member TORRO

tallyho_83
31 January 2025 11:04:05
00 & 06z - It's Interesting what's going on re temps at 10hpa over N. Pole:

UserPostedImage


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

---------------------------------------

Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

Quantum
31 January 2025 11:05:41

The problem is, that big chunk of Vortex seems to have dug in over Greenland. It doesn't look like moving anywhere.

This may change, but blocks with energy going over the top always seem to topple under the pressure ('scuse the pun)

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 

Yes but the energy isn't going west to east. It seems to be cyclonically moving around the Greenland/Canada vortex such that western progression has completely stopped by the time we get to the UK, instead we seem to have south to north motion of large scale systems at this longitude. So this chunk of vortex isn't really impeding the development of a scandanavian high at all, other than we really do need a chunk of that vortex to undercut a bit more such that the scandi high develops in the right place.


25/26 (850hpa temp) 11 days snow/sleet falling

18/11 (-4) 19/11 (-6) 20/11 (-6) 01/01 (-7) 04/01 (-10) 10/01 (-7) 11/01 (-3) 30/01 (-1) 13/02 (-6) 15/02 (-4) 18/02 (-6)

24/25 10d

18/11 (-6) 19/11 (-6) 23/11 (-2) 22/12 (-5) 04/01 (-5) 05/01 (0)14/02 (0) 15/02 (0)12/03 (-6) 13/03 (-6)

23/24 8d

29/11 (-6) 30/11 (-6) 02/12 (-5) 03/12 (-5) 04/12 (-3) 16/01 (-3) 18/01 (-8)08/02 (-5)

22/23 7d

18/12 (-1)06/03 (-6) 08/03 (-8) 09/03 (-6) 10/03 (-8) 11/03 (-5) 14/03 (-6)

21/22 12d

Quantum
31 January 2025 11:07:30

00 & 06z - It's Interesting what's going on re temps at 10hpa over N. Pole:

Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 

If it propagates down we are looking at the first week of March before it does anything for us on the surface. By then the mood in here has firmly switched to spring yearning. Arguably the cold rampers lose their majority in here in about 2 weeks (with 2018 being an exception ofc).

Still on the plus side MJO could be in phase 7 by mid month, so the best case scenario could be a continuation of a cold spell that becomes more severe and peaks around mid month.


25/26 (850hpa temp) 11 days snow/sleet falling

18/11 (-4) 19/11 (-6) 20/11 (-6) 01/01 (-7) 04/01 (-10) 10/01 (-7) 11/01 (-3) 30/01 (-1) 13/02 (-6) 15/02 (-4) 18/02 (-6)

24/25 10d

18/11 (-6) 19/11 (-6) 23/11 (-2) 22/12 (-5) 04/01 (-5) 05/01 (0)14/02 (0) 15/02 (0)12/03 (-6) 13/03 (-6)

23/24 8d

29/11 (-6) 30/11 (-6) 02/12 (-5) 03/12 (-5) 04/12 (-3) 16/01 (-3) 18/01 (-8)08/02 (-5)

22/23 7d

18/12 (-1)06/03 (-6) 08/03 (-8) 09/03 (-6) 10/03 (-8) 11/03 (-5) 14/03 (-6)

21/22 12d

Taylor1740
31 January 2025 11:10:05

If the block stays in place and retrogresses towards Greenland, then of course we could be in business. But that is probably another 2 weeks away

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 

I think the retrogression towards Greenland will be needed to get proper cold air in as the air to the East is nowhere near cold enough and it looks like any retrogression would be at least 2 weeks away.


NW Leeds - 150m amsl
Quantum
31 January 2025 11:11:44

I think the retrogression towards Greenland will be needed to get proper cold air in as the air to the East is nowhere near cold enough and it looks like any retrogression would be at least 2 weeks away.

Originally Posted by: Taylor1740 

The good news is, this is a very common and natural progression from a scandi high. The deep high is going to cause alot of deep WAA on its western side which should raise heights westward. 'Faux cold' where a chilly but impressive scandi high preceds the real event with a greenland high is such a textbook sequence.


25/26 (850hpa temp) 11 days snow/sleet falling

18/11 (-4) 19/11 (-6) 20/11 (-6) 01/01 (-7) 04/01 (-10) 10/01 (-7) 11/01 (-3) 30/01 (-1) 13/02 (-6) 15/02 (-4) 18/02 (-6)

24/25 10d

18/11 (-6) 19/11 (-6) 23/11 (-2) 22/12 (-5) 04/01 (-5) 05/01 (0)14/02 (0) 15/02 (0)12/03 (-6) 13/03 (-6)

23/24 8d

29/11 (-6) 30/11 (-6) 02/12 (-5) 03/12 (-5) 04/12 (-3) 16/01 (-3) 18/01 (-8)08/02 (-5)

22/23 7d

18/12 (-1)06/03 (-6) 08/03 (-8) 09/03 (-6) 10/03 (-8) 11/03 (-5) 14/03 (-6)

21/22 12d

tallyho_83
31 January 2025 11:15:16

If it propagates down we are looking at the first week of March before it does anything for us on the surface. By then the mood in here has firmly switched to spring yearning. Arguably the cold rampers lose their majority in here in about 2 weeks (with 2018 being an exception ofc).

Still on the plus side MJO could be in phase 7 by mid month, so the best case scenario could be a continuation of a cold spell that becomes more severe and peaks around mid month.

Originally Posted by: Quantum 

Like the 00z the 06x splits the PV at the end:

Long range ECMWF zonal doesn't reflect any reversal of zonal flow but if this run verifies we would see an SSW and a reversal of zonal winds as well as a split of the PV. - Interesting how this SSW (if comes off) is occurring around the same time as the BFTE in Feb 2018).

UserPostedImage


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

---------------------------------------

Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

Quantum
31 January 2025 11:36:29
GEFS6Z are noticably better than the 0Z set. The scandi high is completely dominant now past T+192h. What we don't have yet is a dominance of deep level cold.


25/26 (850hpa temp) 11 days snow/sleet falling

18/11 (-4) 19/11 (-6) 20/11 (-6) 01/01 (-7) 04/01 (-10) 10/01 (-7) 11/01 (-3) 30/01 (-1) 13/02 (-6) 15/02 (-4) 18/02 (-6)

24/25 10d

18/11 (-6) 19/11 (-6) 23/11 (-2) 22/12 (-5) 04/01 (-5) 05/01 (0)14/02 (0) 15/02 (0)12/03 (-6) 13/03 (-6)

23/24 8d

29/11 (-6) 30/11 (-6) 02/12 (-5) 03/12 (-5) 04/12 (-3) 16/01 (-3) 18/01 (-8)08/02 (-5)

22/23 7d

18/12 (-1)06/03 (-6) 08/03 (-8) 09/03 (-6) 10/03 (-8) 11/03 (-5) 14/03 (-6)

21/22 12d

Saint Snow
31 January 2025 12:08:42

The good news is, this is a very common and natural progression from a scandi high. The deep high is going to cause alot of deep WAA on its western side which should raise heights westward. 'Faux cold' where a chilly but impressive scandi high preceds the real event with a greenland high is such a textbook sequence.

Originally Posted by: Quantum 

Which is close to what the GFS 6z shows in the furthest reaches of FI. The details of the evolution wouldn't lead to a great spell for the UK - but the detail (hell, maybe the whole broad evolution) will be very different come the time anyway.


Martin

Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)

A TWO addict since 14/12/01

"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."

Aneurin Bevan

nsrobins
31 January 2025 12:28:24

GEFS6Z are noticably better than the 0Z set. The scandi high is completely dominant now past T+192h. What we don't have yet is a dominance of deep level cold.

Originally Posted by: Quantum 

Concur. A skeg of GEFS shows very few Atlantic dominated solutions. Instead we see a range from a cool tug to decent CAA with -12 uppers. It’s a slow, almost tortuous move towards a decent cold spell but it might just get there.


Neil

Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)

Stormchaser, Member TORRO

Ally Pally Snowman
31 January 2025 12:39:42
The lack of cold is the headline.  40 years ago we'd be looking at a freeze up , now just chilly. 

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/en/topkarten.php?map=1&model=gfs&var=2&run=6&time=204&lid=OP&h=0&mv=0&tr=12#mapref 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Hippydave
31 January 2025 12:43:49
I'm a bit sceptical of any improvement in the 6z GEFS. For whatever reason it just seems to me like the 6z set sometimes shows a more favourable outcome in potentially blocked scenarios and then the 12z reverts to more atlantic input. I think it did this with the last easterly tease with a decent cold cluster raising hopes that the models might be solidifying around a cold output and then the 12z blew that away.

Would be happy to be proved wrong though!

In terms of the op run, I thought it was a decent run albeit it takes until deep FI to usher any cold uppers our way. I suspect it'd be pretty cold at the surface for many though before that point (even if the current T2M don't show it - GFS has been poor for MBY in factoring in low level continental cold). The retrogression signal towards the end is also nice to see if a reboot/prolonged cold spell is what you want to see and would be welcomed by some of those Scottish types who inhabit the eastern coastal areas😉

I definitely wouldn't want to call the mid to long term at the moment, outside of saying it's looking potentially dry for most. I think the evolution to upper cold if the pattern persists is reasonably plausible, the issue most of the time is getting the pattern to stick around long enough rather than the atlantic pushing it away before it can get interesting. 


Home: Tunbridge Wells

Work: Tonbridge

31 January 2025 12:50:02
Another Scandal High
Berkshire
Gandalf The White
31 January 2025 12:54:59

Concur. A skeg of GEFS shows very few Atlantic dominated solutions. Instead we see a range from a cool tug to decent CAA with -12 uppers. It’s a slow, almost tortuous move towards a decent cold spell but it might just get there.

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 

Yes, although the height of the 0c isotherm is something I look at when there are cold scenarios in the offing.  For my patch the 06z keeps the median value for the 0c isotherm mostly below 500-600 metres from 7th to 14th. A very few mild outliers, as you have noted, drag the mean above the median: the distribution is very much skewed towards the colder options.


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



Quantum
31 January 2025 13:52:41
Its curious to see where that European cold pool is coming from. The answer is (indirectly) Canada. It seems like a upper level trough drops across Europe around the time of the 2nd WAA. This then develops into a cold core cutoff low which intensifies at upper levels. It would seem the cold air then quickly intensifies, but through adiabatic expansion at high levels rather than any advection of cold air.

If this is the cold pool we are tapping into then its strength will be determined by the strength of the cold core low. The stronger it ends up being, the more divergence, the more expansional cooling and decrease in the uppers. So not really so much dependent on how cold the continent is?


25/26 (850hpa temp) 11 days snow/sleet falling

18/11 (-4) 19/11 (-6) 20/11 (-6) 01/01 (-7) 04/01 (-10) 10/01 (-7) 11/01 (-3) 30/01 (-1) 13/02 (-6) 15/02 (-4) 18/02 (-6)

24/25 10d

18/11 (-6) 19/11 (-6) 23/11 (-2) 22/12 (-5) 04/01 (-5) 05/01 (0)14/02 (0) 15/02 (0)12/03 (-6) 13/03 (-6)

23/24 8d

29/11 (-6) 30/11 (-6) 02/12 (-5) 03/12 (-5) 04/12 (-3) 16/01 (-3) 18/01 (-8)08/02 (-5)

22/23 7d

18/12 (-1)06/03 (-6) 08/03 (-8) 09/03 (-6) 10/03 (-8) 11/03 (-5) 14/03 (-6)

21/22 12d

Taylor1740
31 January 2025 14:25:56

The lack of cold is the headline.  40 years ago we'd be looking at a freeze up , now just chilly. 

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/en/topkarten.php?map=1&model=gfs&var=2&run=6&time=204&lid=OP&h=0&mv=0&tr=12#mapref 

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

Yeah with a much colder continent we could have been looking at ice days rather than 5c maxes which is frustrating.


NW Leeds - 150m amsl
Chunky Pea
31 January 2025 14:37:19
Models look, all and all, very bland to me. No major weather on the way and I appreciate that this is a blessing for the many who are still without electricity and heat after the recent storm. 
Patrick,

East Galway, Ireland.

The Beast from the East
31 January 2025 15:10:45

Its curious to see where that European cold pool is coming from. The answer is (indirectly) Canada. It seems like a upper level trough drops across Europe around the time of the 2nd WAA. This then develops into a cold core cutoff low which intensifies at upper levels. It would seem the cold air then quickly intensifies, but through adiabatic expansion at high levels rather than any advection of cold air.

If this is the cold pool we are tapping into then its strength will be determined by the strength of the cold core low. The stronger it ends up being, the more divergence, the more expansional cooling and decrease in the uppers. So not really so much dependent on how cold the continent is?

Originally Posted by: Quantum 

 What does this mean?  Doesnt the increase in solar heating also have an effect now?


Purley, Surrey, 70m ASL

"We have some alternative facts for you"

Kelly-Ann Conway - former special adviser to the President

Gandalf The White
31 January 2025 15:23:18

What does this mean?  Doesnt the increase in solar heating also have an effect now?

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 

It's the same as adiabatic cooling - the principle that an expanding gas cools. 

The effect of increasing solar radiation as the sun moves back north is different.


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



Jiries
31 January 2025 15:32:19

Yeah with a much colder continent we could have been looking at ice days rather than 5c maxes which is frustrating.

Originally Posted by: Taylor1740 

If you notice how severely bland temps as in the past we get below 0 to -5 daytime to high of 13 or 14 in winter to now 3 to 5 while mild temps no change otherwise we should be getting 15 to 17 maxes.  UK climate getting very worst with severe temperate levels between winter and summer now.

Remove ads from site