The Weather Outlook

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The Beast from the East
04 October 2024 08:40:20
GFS still persisting with Kirk reaching us, though all the others now seem to agree it will get shredded before reaching us. Thank God. 
Purley, Surrey, 70m ASL

"We have some alternative facts for you"

Kelly-Ann Conway - former special adviser to the President

idj20
04 October 2024 10:19:05

GFS still persisting with Kirk reaching us, though all the others now seem to agree it will get shredded before reaching us. Thank God. 

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 

Indeed, GFS still sticking to its guns with showing Kent getting the brunt of it (come to mention it, Retron has been quiet of late). The sad thing is that this model usually turn out to be the correct one when it comes to this kind of set up from 5 to 6 days away as I think it has a better understanding of the Atlantic. Still some room for downgrades, though.


Home location: Folkestone Harbour.
Retron
04 October 2024 10:32:09

Indeed, GFS still sticking to its guns with showing Kent getting the brunt of it (come to mention it, Retron has been quiet of late). The sad thing is that this model usually turn out to be the correct one when it comes to this kind of set up from 5 to 6 days away as I think it has a better understanding of the Atlantic. Still some room for downgrades, though.

Originally Posted by: idj20 

I've been quiet because it's so uncertain still (it's a million miles out in modelling terms), and there haven't been many worryingly strong runs down here - most keep gusts below 50 which, though pretty windy, isn't enough to cause widespread problems.

This morning's GFS, for example, has gusts in the mid 40s here and even down your way, a max of 48. ECM wrings out a couple of low 40s, while MetO tops out in the mid 30s.

For the sort of events where I'd be getting concerned, I'd be looking at 60s showing up on GFS, regularly, and mid 40s or higher showing up on MetO.


Leysdown, north Kent
Quantum
04 October 2024 10:54:17
So we return to the Hart phase space. Basically this catogaries lows in three ways. Assymetry, lower thermal wind, upper thermal wind. A TC is considered to be something (under this definition) that meets all three critaria. If two criteria (usually the first two) are met the low may well be subtropical.

https://moe.met.fsu.edu/cyclonephase/gfs/fcst/archive/24100400/1.html 

When Kirk is making landfall with the UK

Assymetry: Borderline

Lower thermal wind: Warm

Upper thermal wind: Warm

This is still a borderline TC under this definition when it makes landfall. This is genuinelly unusual. Now I wouldn't use this method in isolation to describe a LP but we are looking at a system that may not be completely ex by the time it gets to us. 

If this thing is strong (e.g. stays a cat4 or cat 5 quite far north) and moves quickly then the shear won't have enough time to break it down; particularly if this thing manages to get north of the jet.


25/26 (850hpa temp) 11 days snow/sleet falling

18/11 (-4) 19/11 (-6) 20/11 (-6) 01/01 (-7) 04/01 (-10) 10/01 (-7) 11/01 (-3) 30/01 (-1) 13/02 (-6) 15/02 (-4) 18/02 (-6)

24/25 10d

18/11 (-6) 19/11 (-6) 23/11 (-2) 22/12 (-5) 04/01 (-5) 05/01 (0)14/02 (0) 15/02 (0)12/03 (-6) 13/03 (-6)

23/24 8d

29/11 (-6) 30/11 (-6) 02/12 (-5) 03/12 (-5) 04/12 (-3) 16/01 (-3) 18/01 (-8)08/02 (-5)

22/23 7d

18/12 (-1)06/03 (-6) 08/03 (-8) 09/03 (-6) 10/03 (-8) 11/03 (-5) 14/03 (-6)

21/22 12d

DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
04 October 2024 11:42:56
The latest NHC forecast called for Kirk to peak at a Cat 4 strength of 120 knots (140 mph) from late Thursday into Friday. i.e. yesterday into today, still in mid-Atlantic.

https://yaleclimateconnections.org/topic/eye-on-the-storm/ 


War is God's way of teaching Americans geography - Ambrose Bierce

Chichester 12m asl

Quantum
04 October 2024 12:56:07
Kirk is struggling to complete its eyewall replacement cycle. A cat 4 in an ERC is impressive, if it completes sucessfully I think a cat 5 could be on the table.


25/26 (850hpa temp) 11 days snow/sleet falling

18/11 (-4) 19/11 (-6) 20/11 (-6) 01/01 (-7) 04/01 (-10) 10/01 (-7) 11/01 (-3) 30/01 (-1) 13/02 (-6) 15/02 (-4) 18/02 (-6)

24/25 10d

18/11 (-6) 19/11 (-6) 23/11 (-2) 22/12 (-5) 04/01 (-5) 05/01 (0)14/02 (0) 15/02 (0)12/03 (-6) 13/03 (-6)

23/24 8d

29/11 (-6) 30/11 (-6) 02/12 (-5) 03/12 (-5) 04/12 (-3) 16/01 (-3) 18/01 (-8)08/02 (-5)

22/23 7d

18/12 (-1)06/03 (-6) 08/03 (-8) 09/03 (-6) 10/03 (-8) 11/03 (-5) 14/03 (-6)

21/22 12d

Dickieboy68
04 October 2024 13:43:48
Aye - ye can ne change the laws of physics there .... 
Dickieboy - In the deep mid-Wiltshire 85m ASL

Formerly Guest (16) since 2004

Quantum
04 October 2024 15:05:43
Tentatively Kirk may have finished its ERC, we could see some further intensification now.
25/26 (850hpa temp) 11 days snow/sleet falling

18/11 (-4) 19/11 (-6) 20/11 (-6) 01/01 (-7) 04/01 (-10) 10/01 (-7) 11/01 (-3) 30/01 (-1) 13/02 (-6) 15/02 (-4) 18/02 (-6)

24/25 10d

18/11 (-6) 19/11 (-6) 23/11 (-2) 22/12 (-5) 04/01 (-5) 05/01 (0)14/02 (0) 15/02 (0)12/03 (-6) 13/03 (-6)

23/24 8d

29/11 (-6) 30/11 (-6) 02/12 (-5) 03/12 (-5) 04/12 (-3) 16/01 (-3) 18/01 (-8)08/02 (-5)

22/23 7d

18/12 (-1)06/03 (-6) 08/03 (-8) 09/03 (-6) 10/03 (-8) 11/03 (-5) 14/03 (-6)

21/22 12d

Retron
04 October 2024 17:05:01

For the sort of events where I'd be getting concerned, I'd be looking at 60s showing up on GFS, regularly, and mid 40s or higher showing up on MetO.

Originally Posted by: Retron 

And right on cue, the 12z GFS serves up a wonderful "43 to 64" here, as the low runs further north than on earlier runs. It's just an anomaly for now - the MetO continues to run the low to the south of us, over northern France - but definitely worth keeping an eye on.


Leysdown, north Kent
Retron
04 October 2024 18:01:40
There's a massive variety of outcomes in GEFS still, so confidence has to be very low regarding the storm.

Tonight's nasty is this one, which delivers gusts widely in the 80s (MPH) down here. Hopefully that *won't* happen!

https://images.meteociel.fr/im/70/5487/gens_15_8_138dly5.png 

UserPostedImage


Leysdown, north Kent
Chunky Pea
04 October 2024 18:25:12

There's a massive variety of outcomes in GEFS still, so confidence has to be very low regarding the storm.

Tonight's nasty is this one, which delivers gusts widely in the 80s (MPH) down here. Hopefully that *won't* happen!

https://images.meteociel.fr/im/70/5487/gens_15_8_138dly5.png 

UserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: Retron 

For what it's worth, the ECM 00z had a area of rapidly rising pressure over your broader region (darker blue) which does not necessarily reflect in the isobaric gradient, which in itself is likely down to being missed to the annoying 6hr increments. 

UserPostedImage


Patrick,

East Galway, Ireland.

idj20
04 October 2024 18:26:59

There's a massive variety of outcomes in GEFS still, so confidence has to be very low regarding the storm.

Tonight's nasty is this one, which delivers gusts widely in the 80s (MPH) down here. Hopefully that *won't* happen!

https://images.meteociel.fr/im/70/5487/gens_15_8_138dly5.png 

UserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: Retron 

ECM still not caught on with their 12z op run . . . yet, thus exact track of ex-Kirk over the UK is yet to be nailed on. It's all 5 to 6 days away anyway so it's not worth nailing the flag to mast until Monday. 


Home location: Folkestone Harbour.
ballamar
05 October 2024 06:54:00
Could be a worrying trend for the SE on the GFS op run for wind
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
05 October 2024 07:04:08
MetO regular forecast has top gusts for this part of the S Coast at 30mph early Wed and wind direction sharply backing N-wards soon after
War is God's way of teaching Americans geography - Ambrose Bierce

Chichester 12m asl

Retron
05 October 2024 07:07:21

Could be a worrying trend for the SE on the GFS op run for wind

Originally Posted by: ballamar 

Just inside the gale threshold in this part of the SE - not pleasant but still within the envelope of possible tracks. The rain is just as noteworthy, though, the best part of 2 inches of the stuff in a day!


Leysdown, north Kent
idj20
05 October 2024 07:21:15

Could be a worrying trend for the SE on the GFS op run for wind

Originally Posted by: ballamar 

Knowing my luck, it'll end up being a Folkestone only thing. 🤣 But a quick skeg through the latest model runs seems to show GFS being on its own with ex-Kirk just scraping past Kent while the other models are placing it well over France. I think it's likely to be more as a rain maker rather than wind being the main feature, I won't mind that as my house is pretty water tight and my road is on a slope leading to the harbour so drainage isn't an issue. It's just strong winds that I hate. 


Home location: Folkestone Harbour.
Gandalf The White
05 October 2024 07:36:05

Knowing my luck, it'll end up being a Folkestone only thing. 🤣 But a quick skeg through the latest model runs seems to show GFS being on its own with ex-Kirk just scraping past Kent while the other models are placing it well over France. I think it's likely to be more as a rain maker rather than wind being the main feature, I won't mind that as my house is pretty water tight and my road is on a slope leading to the harbour so drainage isn't an issue. It's just strong winds that I hate. 

Originally Posted by: idj20 

Yes, my main concern has been the potential for a lot of rain and more flooding, rather than wind.  As you say, the trend has been to push the LP south and, as important, for it not to maintain intensity.


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



The Beast from the East
05 October 2024 08:19:06
GFS still persisting with northward track, same for NHC. We are not out of the woods

Also another hurricane for Florida potentially later in the week


Purley, Surrey, 70m ASL

"We have some alternative facts for you"

Kelly-Ann Conway - former special adviser to the President

The Beast from the East
05 October 2024 08:20:52
https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/refresh/graphics_at2+shtml/023657.shtml?cone#contents 

In line with GFS. Not good


Purley, Surrey, 70m ASL

"We have some alternative facts for you"

Kelly-Ann Conway - former special adviser to the President

Matty H
05 October 2024 09:23:14
Pretty comfortable for here now that this will be a non-event in terms of wind. That’s all I care about really. 
Yate, Nr Bristol

TBFTEIARBSC

richardabdn
05 October 2024 09:54:35
Yawn. Yet another tedious spell of totally uninteresting rot to not look forward to.
Aberdeen: The only place that misses out on everything

2023 - The Year that's Constantly Worse than a Bad November

2024 - 2023 without the Good Bits

2025 - The Weekend Curse hell intensifies

DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
05 October 2024 10:08:08

https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/refresh/graphics_at2+shtml/023657.shtml?cone#contents 

In line with GFS. Not good

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 

I don't remember NHC ever showing a storm track this far east, all the way to Belgium - EDIT- and now Denmark noon BST Thu (0800 in AST)


War is God's way of teaching Americans geography - Ambrose Bierce

Chichester 12m asl

Dickieboy68
05 October 2024 10:21:27
It's weather Jim, but not as we know it....
Dickieboy - In the deep mid-Wiltshire 85m ASL

Formerly Guest (16) since 2004

Lionel Hutz
05 October 2024 10:51:25

It's weather Jim, but not as we know it....

Originally Posted by: Dickieboy68 

Some very unusual charts. They'll be showing Klingons on the starboard bow next.


Lionel Hutz

Nr.Waterford , S E Ireland

68m ASL



Gandalf The White
05 October 2024 11:15:03

Pretty comfortable for here now that this will be a non-event in terms of wind. That’s all I care about really. 

Originally Posted by: Matty H 

As I said at the start, my concerns were more about the amount of rainfall, given how wet it’s been in the last month.  

It looks now like a typical battle between the GFS and ECM/UKMO, with the European models taking the LP across northern France whilst GFS brings it critically further north to affect the southern third of the UK, with copious amounts of rain.  Not sure we’ll know for another couple of days yet.


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



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