The Weather Outlook

Remove ads from site

David M Porter
07 July 2024 09:11:51

Unusual fir nowadays but summers in past decades like the 60s and early 70s were frequently cool but not necessarily wet 

Originally Posted by: sunny coast 

The summers of the 80s were pretty cool too in general terms, as far as I recollect. The only summers of that decade which produced sustained spells of heat were 1983, 1984 and 1989. Warm/very warm summers became more common in the 1990s and more so since the start of this century.

Out of interest, does anyone know what the last below average summer for CET was before 2015? Something tells me that it was either during the 80s or possibly in 1993 or 1998.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"A body of men holding themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody." – Thomas Paine

Retron
07 July 2024 11:28:00

The summers of the 80s were pretty cool too in general terms, as far as I recollect. The only summers of that decade which produced sustained spells of heat were 1983, 1984 and 1989. Warm/very warm summers became more common in the 1990s and more so since the start of this century.

Out of interest, does anyone know what the last below average summer for CET was before 2015? Something tells me that it was either during the 80s or possibly in 1993 or 1998.

Originally Posted by: David M Porter 

Below average for summer as a whole? That (for 91-20 values) would be 2014, and before then all of 2007-2012. For 61-90 values it would be 2011 and 2012. 2011 was the last time all three months were below the 91-20 norms for each month.


Leysdown, north Kent
johncs2016
07 July 2024 11:42:35

Below average for summer as a whole? That (for 91-20 values) would be 2014, and before then all of 2007-2012. For 61-90 values it would be 2011 and 2012. 2011 was the last time all three months were below the 91-20 norms for each month.

Originally Posted by: Retron 

I'm surprised by that as I always thought that 2014 was quite a decent summer here.

Clearly, actual data (unlike far too many politicians) never lies though, and it can be very surprising what can be deduced from that.


The north of Edinburgh, usually always missing out on snow events which occur not just within the rest of Scotland or the UK, but also within the rest of Edinburgh.

Ally Pally Snowman
07 July 2024 12:35:59
Yep poor Ops today but AAM is due to rise soon and this is what the Pros look for if you want a pattern change. So maybe the final third of July might come good?
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Chunky Pea
07 July 2024 13:00:09

I'm surprised by that as I always thought that 2014 was quite a decent summer here.

[color=var(--bs-secondary-color)][font=system-ui, -apple-system, "Segoe UI", Roboto, "Helvetica Neue", "Noto Sans", "Liberation Sans", Arial, sans-serif, "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji", "Segoe UI Symbol", "Noto Color Emoji"]johncs2016;1588719[/font][/color]

It was here in Ireland too, very warm, humid summer but an extraordinary amount of high quality thunderstorms to compensate. My record rain rate of 281mm/h from that summer still holds to this day. 


Patrick,

East Galway, Ireland.

Taylor1740
07 July 2024 13:06:35
Looks like high pressure is wanting to build more to the North of us now allowing low pressure to undercut and keeping much of the remainder of July cool and unsettled. Over to you August...
NW Leeds - 150m amsl
Rob K
07 July 2024 13:57:17
GFS 6Z op run is very much at the bottom of the pack but the output is generally less good today than yesterday. Could easily swing back the other way though. 
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl

"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

David M Porter
07 July 2024 16:40:58

I'm surprised by that as I always thought that 2014 was quite a decent summer here.

Clearly, actual data (unlike far too many politicians) never lies though, and it can be very surprising what can be deduced from that.

Originally Posted by: johncs2016 

It was a decent summer here too, John. It was actually very hot here for a few days during the last week of the month after the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow got underway on the 23rd.

As mentioned above, the weather was somewhat poorer during August thanks to ex-Hurricane Bertha at the start of the month which put us into a cooler and more unsettled pattern until late in the month and then the September was pretty decent. For me, it was one of the three best summers of the last decade, along with 2013 and 2018.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"A body of men holding themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody." – Thomas Paine

bledur
07 July 2024 18:06:32
What a difference a day makes. Yesterday BBC week ahead was pretty confident about a spell of High Pressure at the end of the week.

 Today , very uncertain with Low Pressure looking more dominant.

Matty H
07 July 2024 19:59:30

What a difference a day makes. Yesterday BBC week ahead was pretty confident about a spell of High Pressure at the end of the week.

 Today , very uncertain with Low Pressure looking more dominant.

Originally Posted by: bledur 

Yep, annoying and typical. Now I know how the oddities that get excited about a frost that doesn’t happen, feel


Yate, Nr Bristol

TBFTEIARBSC

DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
08 July 2024 06:52:44
WX temps a little more optimistic than yesterday, with warmth gradually moving north across NW Europe. But even by the end of week 2 England is only a small amount above norm, and the N Atlantic (Scotland and Norwegian coast) still quite cold. For really hot weather, go to SE Europe. Rain in week 1 fairly general for Europe N of the Mediterranean, the bulk of this moving east to surround the Baltic in week 2 but a patch hanging back to affect W Britain.

GFS Op - shallow LP drifting across Britain from SW to NE this week, bringing some warmer air with it, transient HP for the weekend followed by a repeat performance next week, and then again the week after though the LP Wed 24th is further west and may bring up a plume from the south.

ECM - starts like GFS, but (like GEM) the weekend HP is mainly for the N with LP 1005mb hanging around in the southern N Sea. Then in the following week another shallow LP does move in from the SW but fills quickly and pressure is rising generally Wed 17th (unlike both GFS and GEM)

GEM - some resemblance to GFS, but next weekend's HP is mainly for Scotland with continental LP affecting the SE; the the 'repeat performance' involves a deeper depression and further north 995mb Hebrides Wed 17th

GEFS -  above norm briefly midweek, then cooler, back to norm around Mon 15th and the majority of ens members 2-4C above norm (but staying near norm in the N) by Mon 22nd. Rain at intervals for this week, better chances of drier later esp in S & E but staying damp in the NW.


War is God's way of teaching Americans geography - Ambrose Bierce

Chichester 12m asl

DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
09 July 2024 06:44:20
No other replies in this thread since yesterday - never a good sign for 'interesting' weather ... but here goes:

WX temp charts - week 1 still on the cool side for Britain and NW Europe but warmth spreading north in week 2, somewhat more so than shown yesterday with even N Scotland getting back to norm. The North Atlantic still cold from Iceland to Norway, uncomfortably close. Roasting hot around the Black Sea. Rain generally N of the Alps in week 1, this wet area drifting N into Scandinavia in week 2 but becoming dry from Biscay up into S England. Hint of thunderstorms for E Spain.

GFS Op - current LP drifting NE-wards and at least for the weekend being replaced by HP over Scotland though for the SE, LP still uncomfortably close over Holland. New shallow LP then quite quickly  crosses England from the SW Mon 14th but  then for the week through to Fri 19th Britain is under a broader area of HP. This gets pushed S-wards by LP moving W across Shetland but soon resumes strongly for the following week (to Thu 25th).

ECM- like GFS up to Tue 16th but the 'shallow LP' heads for NE Scotland and the 'broader area of HP' gets stuck over France, later moving towards Germany, a hint of a plume by Thu 18th, and LP out to the west rather than near Shetland

GEM - compared to GFS, makes more of the LP over Holland and also of the LP on Mon 14th which is still present as a 1005mb depression over England on Wed 16th, HP from the SW then starts to build from Fri 19th and there is no sign of LP developing near Shetland.

GEFS - on the cool side to Mon 14th, back to norm thereafter with a tendency for the ens members to show warmer from Mon 21st. Rain currently, for the S also likely around Sun 13th with bits and pieces thereafter while Britain from the Midlands N-wards misses out on the 13th but may instead get some around Fri 19th. 


War is God's way of teaching Americans geography - Ambrose Bierce

Chichester 12m asl

AJ*
  • AJ*
  • Advanced Member
09 July 2024 07:48:51
Looks like some hopes for drier weather in the second half of July, but too far in the future to place any reliance on.
Angus; one of the Kent crew on TWO.

Tonbridge, 40m (131ft) asl

cultman1
09 July 2024 19:42:11
Frankly I think unlikely but nevertheless the weather  could change but currently the jet stream is anchored well south of the British Isles  it a good omen 
Ally Pally Snowman
09 July 2024 20:00:10
There's definitely a trend for the Azores HP to push in over the UK day 7/8/9 but we have been here before a few times this Summer and it hasn't verified.  AAM is due to rise though at a similar time so maybe a bit more hope than usual. 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Jiries
09 July 2024 20:36:40

There's definitely a trend for the Azores HP to push in over the UK day 7/8/9 but we have been here before a few times this Summer and it hasn't verified.  AAM is due to rise though at a similar time so maybe a bit more hope than usual. 

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

Read those in NW as I don't post or registered that but I notice any teleconnection posts like MJO, etc at the end result we still get same Autumn weather pattern no matter what, LP always find a way to sneak in and sit over us for months.  Talking about so call EL Nino to La Nina nonsense we still get the same Autumnal pattern non-stop.   Last winter in NW Mod thread there was lot of talk about we will get good winter due to so-called teleconnection but ended up same Autumn pattern.   

DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
10 July 2024 06:53:27
WX temp charts stepping back from yesterday and still hesitant about offering any degree of warmth for Britain. The near continent remains near norm, E Europe is warm and SE Europe hot but there is a dip in the isotherms SE-wards from Iceland to affect Britain and W Scandinavia - and this remains in place for the next fortnight. Rain fairly widespread over N Europe in week 1, shifting a little further N in week 2 to affect mainly Scotland and the Baltic.

GFS Op - flabby LP initially moving NE but circling back to affect SE England by Sat 13th while Scotland gets the best of a  ridge of HP. New LP moving in from SW and up to Scotland by Wed 17th, ushering in a spell of W-lies with LP passing close to N Scotland Sat 20th and Mon 22nd, troughs extending further S, before the Azores high asserts itself to reach Britain Thu 25th. But  even that looks as if it may sink S-wards soon after.

ECM - somewhere between GFS and GEM

GEM - compared to GFS, the LP Sat 13th is in the N Sea nearer E Anglia and the HP more for W Britain; then after Wed 17th a fairly strong N-S ridge of HP covers Britain with little sign of any W-lies developing

GEFS - cool to Mon 15th then near norm for a while but with quite a number of ens members incl op & control promising moderate warmth from Mon 22nd. Rain for S England around Fri 12th and (less likely) Tue 16th, for Scotland rain now and then possibly Fri 19th; for N England most likely Wed 17th, everywhere some small amounts at other times.


War is God's way of teaching Americans geography - Ambrose Bierce

Chichester 12m asl

GezM
  • GezM
  • Advanced Member
10 July 2024 07:46:38
Any cautious optimism about an improvement from mid month is watered down today with the mixed runs. At least it looks like being less cool but nothing in the way of prolonged settled weather on the cards.

GEFS average charts still show the Azores high staying at its home. 


Living in St Albans, Herts (116m asl)

Working at Luton Airport, Beds (160m asl)

Crepuscular Ray
10 July 2024 07:47:52
Horrible to read DEW's comments 'models stepping back' from warmth

Taking the GFS as an example it's a 'flat' pattern with repeated flabby Lows meandering around before a weak ridge at the end of the month.

Will August save us? I wouldn't bet on it 😩


Jerry

Edinburgh, in the frost hollow below Blackford Hill

Retron
10 July 2024 07:52:09

Horrible to read DEW's comments 'models stepping back' from warmthCrepuscular Ray;1589178

Funny, I think it's a pleasant thing... although temperatures will be above average today down here despite the jet stream staying far to the south of the UK.

That southerly-tracking jet is fascinating. It didn't really help us coldies in winter (although it delivered exceptional cold to our NE) and in the summer it's not helping heat-hounds... but as I'm not one, it's a-ok with me! 👌

The reason that southerly tracking jet is fascinating, incidentally, is that it's exceptionally unusual to see one persist for almost a year... there are some background drivers at work and I'm not sure we understand them partially, let alone fully.


Leysdown, north Kent
johncs2016
10 July 2024 08:05:52

Horrible to read DEW's comments 'models stepping back' from warmth

Taking the GFS as an example it's a 'flat' pattern with repeated flabby Lows meandering around before a weak ridge at the end of the month.

Will August save us? I wouldn't bet on it 😩

Originally Posted by: Crepuscular Ray 

Yes, we're now almost halfway through the meteorological summer and the big question from that has to be "what summer?" as we haven't even had much of a summer up until now other than just the odd day here and there when the temperatures have been fairly reasonable and even with that, we still haven't been able to come even close to getting even a single completely sunny day here.

I will be travelling down to Hawick on Tuesday 23 July for a couple of weeks to spend some time with my family and although that is still a very long time away as regards to the model output, it is going to take one heck of an improvement in the overall pattern for us to get anything that comes even remotely close to some decent weather for that and at the moment, the omen's are already not looking good for that.

To me, our best hope of getting any improvement in the overall pattern will be if there is an ex-hurricane in the Atlantic Ocean which takes a track to our west and north in such a way that this then promotes a build of high pressure either right over the UK or just to our east.

However, that is currently looking unlikely to happen any time soon, especially as the Atlantic Hurricane season appears to gone very quiet again after Hurricane Beryl.


The north of Edinburgh, usually always missing out on snow events which occur not just within the rest of Scotland or the UK, but also within the rest of Edinburgh.

wallaw
10 July 2024 09:06:34

Funny, I think it's a pleasant thing... although temperatures will be above average today down here despite the jet stream staying far to the south of the UK.

That southerly-tracking jet is fascinating. It didn't really help us coldies in winter (although it delivered exceptional cold to our NE) and in the summer it's not helping heat-hounds... but as I'm not one, it's a-ok with me! 👌

The reason that southerly tracking jet is fascinating, incidentally, is that it's exceptionally unusual to see one persist for almost a year... there are some background drivers at work and I'm not sure we understand them partially, let alone fully.

Originally Posted by: Retron 

It would be interesting to try and go through archives to see when, and how often, such a prolonged southerly tracking jet had happened before. As you say Darren, something is driving it and whilst I'm not a fan of pattern matching, would be interesting to know what weather patterns appeared after such cases in the past.


Ian

Stockton-on-Tees

Crepuscular Ray
10 July 2024 09:17:52

Funny, I think it's a pleasant thing... although temperatures will be above average today down here despite the jet stream staying far to the south of the UK.

That southerly-tracking jet is fascinating. It didn't really help us coldies in winter (although it delivered exceptional cold to our NE) and in the summer it's not helping heat-hounds... but as I'm not one, it's a-ok with me! 👌

The reason that southerly tracking jet is fascinating, incidentally, is that it's exceptionally unusual to see one persist for almost a year... there are some background drivers at work and I'm not sure we understand them partially, let alone fully.

Originally Posted by: Retron 

You should come and live in Edinburgh for a year Retron and become accustomed to a cool, dull climate. You'd be so pleased to get back to the SE 😁

PS I'm not after great heat as such, blue sky and sunshine will do 🙂


Jerry

Edinburgh, in the frost hollow below Blackford Hill

Saint Snow
10 July 2024 10:10:26

Funny, I think it's a pleasant thing... although temperatures will be above average today down here despite the jet stream staying far to the south of the UK.

That southerly-tracking jet is fascinating. It didn't really help us coldies in winter (although it delivered exceptional cold to our NE) and in the summer it's not helping heat-hounds... but as I'm not one, it's a-ok with me! 👌

The reason that southerly tracking jet is fascinating, incidentally, is that it's exceptionally unusual to see one persist for almost a year... there are some background drivers at work and I'm not sure we understand them partially, let alone fully.

Originally Posted by: Retron 

Has the PV remained unusually organised this summer? 

That area of low heights seems persistent in a way I don't recall in previous summers - and it seems particularly persistent over Greenland/NE Canada. 

The result is a succession of spin-off lows spawning from it to head right for the UK. 

In between them, the AH is actually ridging towards the UK. And at times, that ridging is splitting to create a new high that then sits over the UK (and you think 'Yay! summer's coming'). The problem we have is that it's not staying around, but quickly moving off ENE/NE'wards then planting itself over the Baltic/Finland/Svalbaard before declining... then being replaced by another. I'm presuming that The Baltic states and Finland are having great summers so far.


Martin

Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)

A TWO addict since 14/12/01

"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."

Aneurin Bevan

polarwind
10 July 2024 10:18:09

Funny, I think it's a pleasant thing... although temperatures will be above average today down here despite the jet stream staying far to the south of the UK.

That southerly-tracking jet is fascinating. It didn't really help us coldies in winter (although it delivered exceptional cold to our NE) and in the summer it's not helping heat-hounds... but as I'm not one, it's a-ok with me! 👌

The reason that southerly tracking jet is fascinating, incidentally, is that it's exceptionally unusual to see one persist for almost a year... there are some background drivers at work and I'm not sure we understand them partially, let alone fully.

Originally Posted by: Retron 

Indeed.

Some months ago I likened these recent associated North Atlantic synoptics to those of the 50's, 60's, and 70's.

As you are no doubt aware, I've never been comfortable with the warming trend of the recent decades being caused solely by CO2. The persistence of the southerly tracking jetstream suggests to me that if this continues, winters could well trend cooler (colder?) with influential high pressure over Scandanavia or Greenland in winter becoming more common with summers a mixed bag as usual.

I agree with you about some background drivers not being '....partially let alone fully understood'.


"The professional standards of science must impose a framework of discipline and at the same time encourage rebellion against it". – Michael Polyani (1962)

"If climate science is sound and accurate, then it should be able to respond effectively to all the points raised…." - Grandad

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts". - Bertrand Russell

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman

"A consensus means that everyone agrees to say collectively what no one believes individually.”- Abba Eban, Israeli diplomat

Dave,Derby

Remove ads from site