The Weather Outlook

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Brian Gaze
17 December 2021 16:41:40

A cruel twist from the GFS this evening. I wonder if stormy weather could be the risk in the south this Christmas? 


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan

moomin75
17 December 2021 16:42:23

GFS having an absolute mare at the moment all over the shop. Horrific 12z.

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

As bad as it is, it can't get much worse so there can only be improvements ahead Ally.

The background signals are still in our favour, and I can't believe that we are suddenly about to switch to horrendous raging Zonality, not this winter!


Witney, Oxfordshire

100m ASL

Brian Gaze
17 December 2021 16:46:19

Icon G 12z looks more promising for cold weather fans and ECM often follows it.

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/icon-global.aspx?run=12&charthour=180&chartname=mslp500&chartregion=na&charttag=MSLP%20500hPa

 

 


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan

Brian Gaze
17 December 2021 16:48:28

No question, the trend is now not our friend at all.

A pretty rotten 12z GFS and UKMO not much better.

But let's wait again till see where it sits in the Ensembles and bear in mind that things will change in a week.

Originally Posted by: moomin75 

Have you actually seen the UK Met 12z?

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/ukmet.aspx?run=12&charthour=168&chartname=500hpa_height&chartregion=na-region&charttag=500hPa%20GPDM

 


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 

"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan

moomin75
17 December 2021 16:55:30

Must confess, nope, I was looking at the 0z. That looks OK TBH. Still plenty of hope 


Witney, Oxfordshire

100m ASL

Russwirral
17 December 2021 16:58:51

Must confess, nope, I was looking at the 0z. That looks OK TBH. Still plenty of hope 

Originally Posted by: moomin75 

 

Yeh I reckon.

 

What im seeing is standard Model shenanigan's lots of runs and plenty of time for things to correct.  No point worrying about stuff like this for now.

 

One other potential is that we see a cold plunge delayed by a week or two as we clear through one or two pulses of atlantic energy.  But the signal is still there

 

 


moomin75
17 December 2021 16:59:50

 

 

Yeh I reckon.

 

What im seeing is standard Model shenanigan's lots of runs and plenty of time for things to correct.  No point worrying about stuff like this for now.

 

One other potential is that we see a cold plunge delayed by a week or two as we clear through one or two pulses of atlantic energy.  But the signal is still there

 

 

Originally Posted by: Russwirral 

GEM isn't looking bad either tbh. Not far away from something really good.


Witney, Oxfordshire

100m ASL

Rob K
17 December 2021 16:59:56

Not much festive cheer for the south with the 0C isotherm still not reaching here. Might improve in the following frames if they existed!


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl

"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

nsrobins
17 December 2021 17:04:31

Not good for your health is it?

The more that is made of the Atlantic trough the further north it goes - that's the general rule. We really need to see this trough stretched and shallower and on a NW/SE axis to be in the game here, and that could happen as things develop. Or not.

Is the 12Z ECM the biggest of the big, or just the big one?


Neil

Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)

Stormchaser, Member TORRO

White Meadows
17 December 2021 17:06:52
Modern era 1

White Christmas 0

More runs needed but this one is fading fast

Ally Pally Snowman
17 December 2021 17:08:16

GEM isn't looking bad either tbh. Not far away from something really good.

Originally Posted by: moomin75 

 

GEM is rubbish mate. Its almost game over tonight. We need a good ECM. 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Russwirral
17 December 2021 17:08:54

Modern era 1
White Christmas 0

More runs needed but this one is fading fast

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 

 

again - is it?

 

Just look forward to the next run, I reckon wintry stuff will be back again soon...  its like riding the bid dipper


tallyho_83
17 December 2021 17:18:06
Oh my just a glimpse at 12z and after a brief look it's business as usual. I was hoping this GFS 12z was a milder outlier in it's ENS!?

Daily Express may have to write a new headline for tomorrow "UK Set to have the mildest and wettest Christmas on record"

Just saw the BBC weather forecast saying colder weather will arrive by Xmas and showed the battleground and cold air coming our way! Well I wonder what their next forecast will be? Must be a nightmare for weather forecasters this.

Met Office will have to re-write their updated outlook issued a few hours ago. The CFS/JMA/EC 46 day are all wrong if this 12z comes about - even it's a struggle to get the -5c uppers to Scotland on this run and after Christmas into the New Year we could see temperatures in the low to mid teens in the south! Wow! This could come as the biggest failure ever! After the past few runs this is a horror show. Oh well was nice to see the easterly and snow showers feeding in over Xmas whilst it lasted in the models.

Here's to a more accurate 12z ECM ..!?


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

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Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

moomin75
17 December 2021 17:22:42

 

 

GEM is rubbish mate. Its almost game over tonight. We need a good ECM. 

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

Have been having some cache issues....the GEM I was looking at was 2 days old 🤣🤣🤣

 

Yes, trending very much against us at the moment.


Witney, Oxfordshire

100m ASL

tallyho_83
17 December 2021 17:27:48

I am trying to see why (after such strong signals for cold) it has gone P.Tong!? Is it the High in wrong place? WHat caused such a shift to exceptionally milder weather which we could now well get!? The high is/was clearly over Greenland and also there is a substantial amount of cold air just to our east. Both AO and NAO are going negative too I saw the Met Office update saying colder further south etc then I see such balmy zonal and mild charts. I am so confused. We see this time and time again with the models and the Op isn't a mild outlier this time either! :/


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

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Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

moomin75
17 December 2021 17:27:48

 

 

GEM is rubbish mate. Its almost game over tonight. We need a good ECM. 

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

Just had a quick squiz through the GFS Ensembles for 192 hours and there are more than a few stonkers in their Ally. I'd say it's very finely balanced based on what I've just viewed, a good 10 or so decent runs IMO.


Witney, Oxfordshire

100m ASL

David M Porter
17 December 2021 17:31:59

I am trying to see why (after such strong signals for cold) it has gone P.Tong!? Is it the High in wrong place? WHat caused such a shift to exceptionally milder weather which we could now well get!? The high is/was clearly over Greenland and also there is a substantial amount of cold air just to our east. Both AO and NAO are going negative too I saw the Met Office update saying colder further south etc then I see such balmy zonal and mild charts. I am so confused.
We see this time and time again with the models...! :/

Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 

With respect, I think that anyone saying at this stage that it's all gone Pete Tong for cold is doing so a little prematurely, to say the least.

OK, there have been a couple of poorer GFS op runs for southern areas anyway today but I think this is a long way from being decided, one way or the other. My experience of these situations in the past is that a lot can and does change very quickly and with little warning, for the better or for the worse.

Let's see what the ECM 12z op shows as well as the runs over this weekend.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"A body of men holding themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody." – Thomas Paine

glenogle
17 December 2021 17:33:30

I am trying to see why (after such strong signals for cold) it has gone P.Tong!? Is it the High in wrong place? WHat caused such a shift to exceptionally milder weather which we could now well get!? The high is/was clearly over Greenland and also there is a substantial amount of cold air just to our east. Both AO and NAO are going negative too I saw the Met Office update saying colder further south etc then I see such balmy zonal and mild charts. I am so confused. We see this time and time again with the models and the Op isn't a mild outlier this time either! :/

Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 

Nothing has gone Pete tong.  It's still over a week away and hasn't happened yet.

As Michael has said, the ensembles are looking pretty consistent/steady as we go.


UserPostedImage LLTNP 105m asl 
Rob K
17 December 2021 17:38:26

I am trying to see why (after such strong signals for cold) it has gone P.Tong!? Is it the High in wrong place? WHat caused such a shift to exceptionally milder weather which we could now well get!? The high is/was clearly over Greenland and also there is a substantial amount of cold air just to our east. Both AO and NAO are going negative too I saw the Met Office update saying colder further south etc then I see such balmy zonal and mild charts. I am so confused. We see this time and time again with the models and the Op isn't a mild outlier this time either! :/

Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 

Even with a negative AO and NAO it's no good for us if the high is too far north and lets the lows through the gap.

Struggling to see much to be upbeat about on the 12Z output so far but we all know that often the models throw in a wobble before going back to their original ideas, so that's what I am pinning my hopes on.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl

"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

dagspot
17 December 2021 17:38:40
I don't know if i'm Arthur or Martha with this lot
Neilston 600ft ASL
idj20
17 December 2021 17:41:21

Oh dear, just hope GFS doesn't end up being the trend setter with the stormy Christmas day for the South Coast. Knowing my luck it'll  end up being the case where I'll be getting soaked wet and wind blasted here at Kent while the rest of the UK has seasonal-type frosty calm sunny weather. Still plenty of leg room for changes, of course.


Home location: Folkestone Harbour.
Ally Pally Snowman
17 December 2021 17:43:44

Just had a quick squiz through the GFS Ensembles for 192 hours and there are more than a few stonkers in their Ally. I'd say it's very finely balanced based on what I've just viewed, a good 10 or so decent runs IMO.

Originally Posted by: moomin75 

We need a stonker of a ECM to steady the nerves. 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
tallyho_83
17 December 2021 17:49:07

 

Even with a negative AO and NAO it's no good for us if the high is too far north and lets the lows through the gap.

Struggling to see much to be upbeat about on the 12Z output so far but we all know that often the models throw in a wobble before going back to their original ideas, so that's what I am pinning my hopes on.

Originally Posted by: Rob K 

Yes good point David and Rob!

I think that was the issue is that the high went too far north allowing LP's to develop and strengthen over the WARM Atlantic....so a warm Atlantic has help to fuel and intensify our LP systems ...would you agree? Anyway, we shall see...!?

I hope we don't have to keep relying on a SSW each winter just to get a decent cold spell

Fingers crossed for a more reliable cold ECM and that the 18z will flip back - ECM doesn't flip as much as GFS's do so we shall see...

But I am sure you can all appreciate the disappointment after all this hope it's becoming a de ja vu!


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)

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Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

BJBlake
17 December 2021 17:56:51

In times of trouble - mother `UKMO comes to me and whispers words of reason - let it be. The UKMO keeps the jet to the south (for now) and could drive a channel low across us - and provide snow-maggedon - for someone. This is the most likely scenario at the moment. As Gandalf the White and wise wizard says, it is all about the jet forecast now and where the energy goes and whether it is bifferacated, or if undiluted, will it crash through to the south of us like in 1947....


Brecklands, South Norfolk 28m ASL

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